Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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consiglieri
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by consiglieri »

So how does Joseph Smith come up with two absolutely correct Egyptian theophoric suffixes for his ladies?

Ze-PTAH and Katu-MIN?

Were both Ptah and Min known as Egyptian deities by the 1840s?

Asking for a friend.
Last edited by consiglieri on Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by consiglieri »

Dup
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Names and more names

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:52 pm
So how does Joseph Smith come up with two absolutely correct Egyptian theophoric suffixes for his ladies?

Ze-PTAH and Katu-MIN?

Were both Ptah and Min known as Egyptian deities by the 1840s?

Asking for a friend.
Consiglieri,

There really isn't anything overly remarkable with the assorted words Smith used in his Egyptian Grammar which is a hodgepodge he put together with the help of his friends -- it was a collective effort and project of several minds coming together to create what they thought would be a Grammar to help produce and translate the Book of Abraham. Ancient Egyptian words for gods and kings have come down through the ages in various tongues -- namely Greek. Prior to the cracking of the code by Champollion, others took a crack at it. One of the more famous linguists who was a forerunner and contributor was Athanasius Kircher a scholar during the Renaissance who produced the Oedipus Aegyptiacus which was wacky and wild ride through Egyptian symbolism and translation:
Wikipedia wrote:His renditions of hieroglyphic texts tended to be wordy and portentous; for example, he translated a frequently occurring phrase in Egyptian, dd Wsr, "Osiris says," as "The treachery of Typhon ends at the throne of Isis, the moisture of nature is guarded by the vigilance of Anubis."
Later, just prior to Champollion cracking the Rosetta Stone another linguist by the name of Thomas Young a British decipher was hard at work and made some genuine contributions to Egyptology -- very correct and precise connections between actual hieroglyphs and their meaning -- to include gods, kings, and important terms.

Here is a letter written by Thomas Young in 1818 and I want you to take a look at the translations below and you can plainly see that these things become widely known even in Smith's neck of the woods. But I'm not sure about Ptah and Min and how general those names were known in Smith's time. Thoth, Osiris, Isis, and others are listed below:

Image

you're welcome

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by consiglieri »

Thank you for sharing some of your prodigious knowledge with me, Shulem.

These are things that do make me wonder from time to time.

Sort of like the startling name of "Aha" thrown off as a secondary character in the Book of Mormon.

I know that coincidences do happen, and it doesn't make up for the hugely anachronistic Timothy jumping off the pages of Third Nephi, but still it is unusual.

Do these kinds of thoughts ever run through your head?

P.S. There is an annoying guy named Joe posting at my RFM web page and also my RFM Facebook page about the Book of Abraham who could use a Shulem-sized paddling if you have the notion.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Aha moment!

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:05 pm
These are things that do make me wonder from time to time.

Sort of like the startling name of "Aha" thrown off as a secondary character in the Book of Mormon.

I know that coincidences do happen, and it doesn't make up for the hugely anachronistic Timothy jumping off the pages of Third Nephi, but still it is unusual.

Do these kinds of thoughts ever run through your head?

consiglieri,

I've been through all these things that made me wonder quite a long time ago. Smith loved to employ words and lots of them. Lots of words are found in his novels. Smith loved to play with words!

Aha? Oh, the old Egyptian word to "fight" which by chance is found in the Book of Mormon. Bullseye? My ass. It's just another name concocted by Smith who was well read and quite able to mix words to name his characters. Smith didn't know Egyptian anymore than he knew auto mechanics.

Yes, Aha is found in the Book of Mormon in various form:

AHA

AbrAHAm

RAHAb

AHAz

AHAh

MAHAh

:wink:

It doesn't make it Egyptian. It's no big deal except for apologists who are searching for any kind of bullseye.

Aha!

:lol:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Image

M O R M O N
D I S C U S S I O N S


Is celebrating the destruction of Book of Abraham apologetics.

Victory!

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Translation and Historicity of the Book of Abraham wrote:
The book of Abraham speaks disapprovingly of human sacrifice offered on an altar in Chaldea. Some victims were placed on the altar as sacrifices because they rejected the idols worshipped by their leaders. Recent scholarship has found instances of such punishment dating to Abraham’s time. People who challenged the standing religious order, either in Egypt or in the regions over which it had influence (such as Canaan), could and did suffer execution for their offenses. The conflict over the religion of Pharaoh, as described in Abraham 1:11–12, is an example of punishment now known to have been meted out during the Abrahamic era.
Radio Free Mormon: The Games People Play -- dial to 44:00 minute mark

Inclusion of footnote #36 should NOT have been used by the Church in attempt to defend the Book of Abraham.
36. wrote:Kerry Muhlestein, Violence in the Service of Order: The Religious Framework for Sanctioned Killing in Ancient Egypt (Oxford, U.K.: Archaeopress, 2001), 37–44, 92–101; Kerry Muhlestein, “Royal Executions: Evidence Bearing on the Subject of Sanctioned Killing in the Middle Kingdom,” Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient 51, no. 2 (2008): 181–208; Anthony Leahy, “Death by Fire in Ancient Egypt,” Journal of the Economic and Social History of the Orient 27, no. 2 (1984): 199–206; Harco Willems, “Crime, Cult and Capital Punishment (Mo’alla Inscription 8),” Journal of Egyptian Archeology 76 (1990): 27–54.

Author Harco Willems has made it clear that his work should not be included in this apologetic article produced by the Church because it does not reflect his opinion in the least. Either the Church remove his name from the footnote or face a lawsuit. I think Harco should sue for say, uh, hmm, 10 million sounds good.

I'll split the finders fee with RFM, okay okay, I'm not greedy, just give me 20% and we're square.

:wink:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by consiglieri »

I am glad we were able to bring Dr. Gee's important "Two Inks Theory" to a wider audience.
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The Two Inks Theory

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:34 pm
I am glad we were able to bring Dr. Gee's important "Two Inks Theory" to a wider audience.
To be gleaned from the podcast beginning at the 51:00 mark:
Radio Free Mormon: The Games People Play

A Guide to the Joseph Smith Papyri John Gee p. 21 wrote:Three of the documents from the Kirtland Egyptian Papers contain a partial copy of the translated Book of Abraham in which a word or two in Egyptian characters is written in the left-hand margin at the beginning of each paragraph of English text. According to this theory, the text to the right is the translation of the Egyptian characters to the left. Unfortunately for the theory, the Egyptian characters were added after the entire English text was written (as evidenced by the use of different inks, Egyptian characters that do not always line up with the English text). Thus it was not a matter of writing the characters in the margin at the beginning paragraphs of text without explicitly stating the reason for doing do.

I gave a full analysis of how the characters correspond with the writing when Smith created his (see here: Grammar & Alphabet of the Egyptian Language). The characters were written FIRST and the text was written SECOND just as they were in the other manuscripts Gee refers to in his book. It's an absolute dead ringer that the text was written after the characters! I brought this to the attention of William Schryver ten years ago here on Mormon Discussions, and all he could say after referring to my link was, "What an ... impressive display of erudition! I confess I had no idea you had already "figured out" all of the secrets of the KEP".

This of course stopped him dead in his tracks! At the time, William was a student of the KEP and I was the master. He hated that idea.

A Guide to the Joseph Smith Papyri John Gee p. 22 wrote:Image

Examples of Egyptian characters writen in the margins of the Kirtland Egyptian Papers Book of Abraham manuscripts (KEPA). The examples show that the characters (1) were written in different ink than the English text (examples 2,3,4,6), (2) do not line up with the English text (examples 3,4,6), and (3) run over the margins (examples 1,2,5) and sometimes the English text (example 1). This indicates that the Egyptian characters were added after the English text was written, perhaps to decorate the beginnings of paragraphs, although the reason for their inclusion was never explicitly stated.
"The examples show that the characters were written in different ink than the English text do not line up with the English text and run over the margins and sometimes the English text"

Gee is saying that the ink of the characters run over the margin line and the text. Examine the facts and understand how Gee explained it. He said what he meant and meant what he said.

Fact 1: The characters are in the left side of the margin
Fact 2: The vertical margin line separates the characters from the text
Fact 3: The text is to the right of the margin

Claim 1: There are two inks
Claim 2: Character ink run over the margin line
Claim 3: And sometimes the character ink run over the English text

Analysis:

A. Ink #1 (character ink) run over the margin line
B. Ink #1 (character ink) run over the text ink (Ink #2)

1. Gee implies that character ink run over the margin ink
2. Gee implies that character ink run over the text ink
3. Gee implies that the character ink was written after the text ink because it is "over" the text ink. Gee uses the word "over" as the opposite of the word "under" insomuch as the one ink runs over not under the other ink. Hence, Gee implies that the one ink leaves the boundary set by the margin and literally runs over the ink of the other. He does this to attempt to prove that the ink that is over came second, hence, the characters were written after the text purely for the purpose to decorate the page -- nonsense that Nibley suggested.
Last edited by Shulem on Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

RECAP of Facsimile No. 1 Scene

Here is a recap of significant points made in this thread that PROVE Facsimile No. 1 was not a Sacrifice Scene:

1. The scene occurs in Preynastic times
2. The scene takes place on the banks of the Nile in Egypt
3. The lion bed was furniture designed to bless the dead
4. The lion bed was made of wood, not iron
5. There was no knife in the original vignette
6. The god is jackal-headed Anubis wearing a headdress
7. The ba is the soul of Osiris in bird form with a human head
8. The man on the bed is the body of Osiris rising from the dead
9. The scene is one of blessing and life

Thanks be to Anubis and glory to Osiris.

Amen.

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Correct Explanations for Facsimile No. 1

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A FACSIMILE FROM THE BOOK OF BREATHING
NO. 1


Image

EXPLANATION

Fig. 1. The Ba of Osirs.
Fig. 2. Osiris rising from the dead.
Fig. 3. Anubis the jackal-headed god assisting Osiris.
Fig. 4. The lion bed for resurrection through the blessing of Anubis, standing before the gods of Qebehsenuef, Duamutef, Hapi, Imsety, and Sobek.
Fig. 5. The god Qebehsenuef.
Fig. 6. The god Duamutef.
Fig. 7. The god Hapi.
Fig. 8. The god Imsety.
Fig. 9. The god Sobek.
Fig. 10. Libation stand with lotus, flowers, and jars.
Fig. 11. Designed to represent brick and stone walls, as built by the Egyptians.
Fig. 12. Nile river flowing from Upper Egypt down into Lower Egypt within the Delta and into the sea.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by consiglieri »

Thank you so much for this whirlwind tour of your brilliance, Professor Shulem!

And thank you for taking Joe out to the woodshed on my Facebook page!

What is the king's name, indeed!?
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 3:40 pm
Thank you so much for this whirlwind tour of your brilliance, Professor Shulem!

And thank you for taking Joe out to the woodshed on my Facebook page!

What is the king's name, indeed!?
You are most welcome and thanks for the wonderful compliment. Yes, I think this thread has run a wonderful course and was happy to do it. Facsimile No. 2 is even more fun and I will have to do that sometime. Oh what a ride! Woohoo.

Poor Joe. I just wont let up on repeating the golden question, "What's the king's name?". They try and detract and take you away in all that apologetic nonsense but I never fall for it. Just stick to the question, hold to your guns, and add more tidbits. Eventually they fall apart, every time. Believe me, I have tricks up my sleeve and I do use them -- to win.

:lol:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:07 pm
Book of Abraham wrote:that you may have a knowledge of this altar, I will refer you to the representation at the commencement of this record.

Image
I've seen many of these beautiful funerary lion beds depicted on various papyri and tomb walls. The funerary bed is made for those who are ALREADY dead and await resurrection through Osiris. It is a bed whereon the mummy may lie in peace with the promise of receiving blessing and joy in the afterlife.

FOR FURTHER READING AND REFERENCE -- (This is something I need to digest. Looks like a real winner!)

Egyptologist Winifred Needler
Former Egyptologist of Museum of Ontario Archaeology
Keeper & Curator and Instructor University of Toronto

link:

An Egyptian funerary bed of the Roman period in the Royal Ontario Museum, University of Toronto, 1963

IMAGES for Funerary bed of Herty -- Royal Onario Museum

This certainly appears to be an extensive and authoritative examination of the meaning of the lion bed such as shown in the funerary rite of Facsimile No. 1. Get the facts from a real Egyptologist rather than Apostate Egyptologists who are paid by BYU to print garbage for the Mormon faithful.
Needler wrote:
Contents

1 Provenance and General Description
2 History of the Egyptian Lion-bed
3 The Inscriptions: General Comments and the Personal Names
4 Detailed Description of the Pictorial Decoration
5 The Problem of Dating the Bed: General Considerations
6 Iconographic Considerations
7 Stylistic Considerations
8 Two Related Types of Late Roman Burials at Thebes
9 Summary
notes

LIST OF WORKS CITED, Ifi

ALSO:
The Mummy in Ancient Egypt Equipping the Dead for Eternity, p. 107; Salima Ikram, Aidan Dodson wrote:Another piece of furniture, frequently confused with the embalming table, is the funerary bed. These are often pictured on coffins of Third Intermediate Period or later date, as well as in tomb-paintings which show Anubis bending over the mummy lying on such a couch. Made of wood and elaborate finials featuring the fore and end parts of lions or semi-mythical beasts, these beds were used either for the lying in state of the mummy, or for the final wrapping ritual, which was a clean procedure and could therefore be performed on such elaborate beds.
The Dictionary of Ancient Egypt, p. 162; Ian Shaw and Paul Nicholson in association with the British Museum wrote:The lion-god AKER guarded the gateway to the underworld through which the sun came and went each day. Since the sun was born each morning and died each evening on the horizons, so the lion was also connected with death and rebirth and was thus portrayed on funerary couches or biers, as well as embalming tables. The beds and chairs of the living were sometimes decorated with lions' paws or heads, perhaps in order that the occupant too would rise renewed after sleep or rest.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

JOHN GEE
AN APOSTATE EGYPTOLOGIST LIAR!


An Introduction to the Book of Abraham
GEE wrote:The Book of Abraham was produced by Abraham, an ancient, historical person who lived in a particular time and in particular places. The events it narrates took place in a particular historical context.
This is a total lie in which NO NONMORMON Egyptologist will agree -- NOT one! The Book of Abraham and the Facsimile Explanations are not historical by any means. It's all rubbish made up out the mind of Smith. This is purely a faith promoting statement made by an Apostate Egyptologist in order to keep members from losing faith in the Book of Abraham.
GEE wrote:Abraham’s homeland was incorporated as part of the Egyptian empire under the Twelfth Dynasty pharaohs Sesostris III and his son, Amenemhet III, but it was then lost to the subsequent pharaohs. This provides a historical date for the events of the first chapter of the Book of Abraham.

At that time Egypt practiced human sacrifice, as historical and archaeological evidence both attest. It was a ritual (Abraham 1:7–11, 15) directed against religious offenders (Abraham 1:5–6) that could take place either in Egypt or in areas Egypt influenced (Abraham 1:1, 10, 20)..
Smith's revelation of the lion bed of Facsimile No. 1 being a cruel instrument of death is an utter fabrication and this LIE is perpetuated by the likes of APOSTATE John Gee. The lion bed of Facsimile No. 1 had nothing to do with human sacrifice, Abraham, or Chaldean executions. These are all lies made up by Smith and the Mormons who seek to deceive. John Gee trashes the kings of the 12th Dynasty all for the purpose of defending Smith's lies. How utterly outrageous! You have no shame, John Gee. You have no honor, none, whatsoever. I utterly despise you.
GEE wrote:When famine set in, the closest steady supply of grain was the land of Egypt, the northern part of which was now under the management of the Fourteenth Dynasty. These pharaohs were “partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth” (Abraham 1:21) and bore Canaanite names. Abraham seems to classify all pharaohs as Canaanite, though the Twelfth Dynasty pharaohs whose servants tried to kill him were not. Since Abraham never met the Twelfth Dynasty pharaohs, he may have assumed that all pharaohs were like the Fourteenth Dynasty ones he did meet.
Abraham NEVER, EVER, sat on the throne of a 14th Dynasty king as postulated out of the lying lips of Joseph Smith (Facsimile No. 3) and John Gee who jointly sponsor PSEUDO Egyptology paid for by BYU. It's ABSOLUTELY outrageous that Gee takes Abraham and spreads him about throughout the 12th to 14th dynasties and thinks to keep Egyptian chronology and biblical chronology intact? And all this using the so-called Book of Abraham (19th century novel) as the source for historic and genuine information for these occurrences when the dirt, sand, and historical record in Egypt does not support such nonsense. It's outrageous!

John Gee should be fired from BYU. He is lying, repeatedly and deceiving his readers with his garbage.

He deserves whatever comes his way. Bad fortune and ruin. he is a despicable and disgusting man. I'm glad your book got pulled you lying bastard! :twisted:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Gee wrote:Abraham’s homeland was incorporated as part of the Egyptian empire under the Twelfth Dynasty pharaohs Sesostris III and his son, Amenemhet III, but it was then lost to the subsequent pharaohs. This provides a historical date for the events of the first chapter of the Book of Abraham.

I'll hold your feet to the fire, you lying bastard. The first chapter claims the Book of Abraham started right after the flood : 2,400 BC

Just try and meld biblical chronology to Egyptian chronology using modern Egyptology backed with Smith's 6,000 years and you cannot justify what you say.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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GEE wrote:Since Abraham never met the Twelfth Dynasty pharaohs, he may have assumed that all pharaohs were like the Fourteenth Dynasty ones he did meet.
IDIOT, Gee, is hereby on record for claiming that Abraham sat on the very throne of Smith's "King Pharaoh" (Facsimile No. 3) whose name is given in the characters above his head.

Behold, a 14th Dynasty king!

:lol:

Fancy Gee, attempting to marry Smith's Abraham with one of the most difficult (contested) dynasties in which to make sense of it all. The 14th Dynasty was indeed a mysterious overlapping time frame in the chronicles of ancient Egypt but it's FAR TOO LATE for biblical Abraham to make his appearance in Egypt while looking for bread. Gee heavily relies on his statement: "Biblical scholars have not agreed on the time and place that Abraham lived" in order to boot Abraham out of the 12th Dynasty because he damn well knows it's suicidal to even consider the idea that Abraham sat on a throne of a 12th Dynasty king which is where standard biblical chronology dates his Egyptian sojourn. So, Gee attempts to distract his readers into thinking that since there is some disagreement in the exact year(s) Abraham's ministry took place he can bounce him into another era, much more congenial, further down the line and hopefully nobody will notice the difference in how the time line explodes or implodes -- however you want to describe it -- it's impossible -- boom, it blows up! The problem for Gee is that in doing this the chronology of Smith's own time line (that he embraced) gets thrown under the bus. Smith endorsed the biblical time line from Noah to Abraham and all the biblical math from Genesis is fully calculated and reasoned in Lectures on Faith II in the early Doctrine and Covenants and other official early church sources. Much of this has been detailed earlier in this thread.

When did 14th Dynasty king's reign? 1705–1690 BC

See: Wikipedia Fourteenth Dynasty of Egypt

Biblical Abraham is placed much earlier in chronology than Egypt's 14th Dynasty. Then it gets even worse when you consider the time frame between Abraham and Moses and trying to find the Pharaoh of the Exodus. That problem is far worse and Gee knows that! Folks, the Exodus as recorded in the bible is MYTH! That stuff never happened.

I specialize in that little chronological problem.

:twisted:
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:00 pm
Soooooo, if I am not mistaken, I think what you are trying to say here is that you have a testimony..... :biggrin:
I bear you my testimony that I know that John Gee is NEVER going to be able to devise any kind of coherent time frame in which to place Predynastic, Earlydynastic, and Old Kingdom Egypt between "Egyptus" settling into the Delta to establish the Egyptian nation and Abraham sitting on a 14th Dynasty king's throne.

:twisted:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Shulem wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 3:57 pm

Biblical Abraham is placed much earlier in chronology than Egypt's 14th Dynasty. Then it gets even worse when you consider the time frame between Abraham and Moses and trying to find the Pharaoh of the Exodus. That problem is far worse and Gee knows that! Folks, the Exodus as recorded in the bible is MYTH! That stuff never happened.

I specialize in that little chronological problem.

:twisted:
And don't think that the timeline for Abraham's great grandson Joseph hasn't been mapped out and fully taken into consideration because it has! Is John Gee writing about how JOSEPH was in Egypt and which Pharaoh's throne he was standing next to?

Good times are coming. Roasting Gee nuts on the open fire is going to become a habit. He's one Egyptologist NUT that is easy to crack!

You stink, Gee. You pasty looking SOB. And don't lecture me, Philo, about the highroad. That bastard deserves what he's got coming to him!

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

This thread has effectively shown conclusively that there NEVER was a knife in the hands of Anubis depicted in Facsimile No. 1, as published by the Mormons, first in Nauvoo, and then by the Church headquartered in Salt Lake City -- by the POLYGAMOUS--M O R M O N branch under Woodruff's ignorant management.

There never was a knife! Smith made it up. The knife was first drawn on the paper backing and then was incorporated into the printing plate for publication but it was never drawn on the original vignette of Hor's papyrus. The Mormons have been perpetuating this filthy lie for 178 years and have done nothing to correct their original error and blasphemous representation, a libelous depiction of Egyptian art.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many Egyptologists back the KNIFE as shown in the Facsimile No. 1?

YES:
John Gee
Kerry Muhlestein

NO:
ALL NONMORMON EGYPTOLOGISTS WORLDWIDE

Need I say more?

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

Book of Abraham according to John Gee, Mormon Egyptologist:

Historical narrative begins in Chapter 1 of the Book of Abraham

EARTH IS FLOODED AND EIGHT SOULS SURVIVE

> The Flood; Noah age 600
> Ark sails away from Jackson County Missouri
> Ark settles in the New World on mount Ararat
> Shem begat Arphaxad 2 years after the flood
> Arphaxad age 35 begat Salah
> Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus
> Salah age 30 begat Eber
> The first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus
> Eber age 34 begat Peleg
> Egyptian 1st Dynasty
> Peleg age 30 begat Reu
> Egyptian 2nd Dynasty
> Reu age 32 begat Serug
> Egyptian 3rd Dynasty -- Step Pyramid of Djoser is built
> Serug age 30 begat Nahor
> Egyptian 4th Dynasty -- Great Pyramids are built
> Nahor age 29 begat Terah
> Egyptian 5 & 6th Dynasties
> Terah age 70 begat Abram
> Egyptian 1st Intermediate Period
> Abram age 75 journey to Canaan
> Egyptian Middle Kingdom
> Abraham sits on Pharaoh's throne (according to John Gee) and teaches astronomy
> 14th Dynasty ends
> It gets worse from here, much worse.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Kiss my camel's ass, John Gee. You aren't fooling me!! You aren't fooling yourself either. I know what YOU know. I have been there and done it. I know the numbers, names, and the math. YOU, are lying! I know it and you know it!

What are you going to do about it?


Shulem

PS. Stop what you are doing. It's destroying you. I can see that in your countenance. Give it up. Walk away from it.

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