Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

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Some Schmo
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Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Some Schmo »

Trump orders churches back open as "essential services."

If there is anyone in this country who's is stupid enough to believe that Trump cares about people's religious lives and that this isn't about the obvious ____ political message he's trying to send about himself here, you are the very definition of gullible.

That's right, Trump's religious types. Go sit in a pew with your neighbors. Do that essential prayin' you need to do sitting within six feet of acquaintances. God will protect you, because Trump told you to do it... *covers mouth to stifle laugh*

It's not even a good move for the economy. What's the risk to revenue ratio here?

Christ, the President is a moron.

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Chap
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Chap »

It seems that Trump's support amongst the religious right is showing significant declines.

This is not at all good for his prospects in November, given how much he relied on them to win the electoral college (but not the popular vote) in 2016.

Hence perhaps his attempts to show himself as 'the man who opened the churches'?

Behind Trump’s demand to reopen churches: Slipping poll numbers and alarm inside his campaign

Trump was counting on widening support from white religious voters this fall. The pandemic is sending his numbers the other way

A sudden shift in support for Donald Trump among religious conservatives is triggering alarm bells inside his reelection campaign, where top aides have long banked on expanding the president’s evangelical base as a key part of their strategy for victory this November.

The anxiety over Trump’s standing with the Christian right surfaced after a pair of surveys by reputable outfits earlier this month found waning confidence in the administration’s coronavirus response among key religious groups, with a staggering decline in the president’s favorability among white evangelicals and white Catholics. Both are crucial constituencies that supported Trump by wide margins in 2016 and could sink his reelection prospects if their turnout shrinks this fall.

The polls paint a bleak picture for Trump, who has counted on broadening his religious support by at least a few percentage points to compensate for weakened appeal with women and suburban populations. One GOP official said the dip in the president’s evangelical support also appeared in internal party polling, but disputed the notion that it had caused panic. Another person close to the campaign described an April survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, which showed a double-digit decline in Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals (-11), white Catholics (-12) and white mainline protestants (-18) from the previous month, as “pretty concerning.”

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Some Schmo
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Some Schmo »

Chap wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:09 am
It seems that Trump's support amongst the religious right is showing significant declines.

This is not at all good for his prospects in November, given how much he relied on them to win the electoral college (but not the popular vote) in 2016.

Hence perhaps his attempts to show himself as 'the man who opened the churches'?
That's interesting Chap. I hadn't seen that.

So the question becomes, given that his numbers among this demographic are slipping, does reordering churches open help or hurt further? Why are his numbers slipping? If they think he's failing to respond adequately to the pandemic, wouldn't this move make it worse? Or is their beef that churches (and everything else) were closed in the first place? Or is it something else entirely? Guess it depends on the voter.

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subgenius
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by subgenius »

Politicians behaving politically- oh my! how we will we ever survive?!?!?

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Icarus
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Icarus »

Trump isn't acting politically, he's acting against the Constitution.

But you don't care about any of that so long as it isn't the black guy doing it.

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subgenius
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by subgenius »

Icarus wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 2:36 pm
Trump isn't acting politically, he's acting against the Constitution.

But you don't care about any of that so long as it isn't the black guy doing it.
Oh yay! another white person telling me what real racism is.
But alas -
please explain how "Trump orders churches back open as "essential services." is an action against the Constitution to at least a level sufficient for us to stop considering your post as idiotic.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

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*clink* Cheers! *Aaaaah!*

- Doc

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Chap
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Chap »

subgenius wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:05 pm
please explain how "Trump orders churches back open as "essential services." is an action against the Constitution to at least a level sufficient for us to stop considering your post as idiotic.
Because he does not have the constitutional power to override State governments in such matters?

10th amendment:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Did I get that right? Unlike the rest of you, I did not learn all this at high school. Please correct me.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Chap,

90% of us didn’t, either. Maybe 99.9999% if you want to add an inability to correlate information to the real world in addition to not retaining it.

- Doc

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Chap
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Chap »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
Chap,

90% of us didn’t, either. Maybe 99.9999% if you want to add an inability to correlate information to the real world in addition to not retaining it.

- Doc
Thanks for the comment. Dr. C.

All my life I have found it useful - often vital - to make myself familiar with the rules governing a body in which I am involved in any significant way - the statute law when applicable, the standing orders of a committee on which I serve, the charter of an incorporated body with which I have to deal, and so on. It's amazing how many people don't: they just go by some vague sense of what they think is reasonable, or of how they would like things to be.

In the UK there is no written constitution. But since you have one in the US (that has advantages and disadvantages), I suggest that every American concerned by the threat posed by Trump should read it pretty damn quick! He certainly hasn't.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Gunnar »

Chap wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:09 am
It seems that Trump's support amongst the religious right is showing significant declines.

This is not at all good for his prospects in November, given how much he relied on them to win the electoral college (but not the popular vote) in 2016.

Hence perhaps his attempts to show himself as 'the man who opened the churches'?

Behind Trump’s demand to reopen churches: Slipping poll numbers and alarm inside his campaign

Trump was counting on widening support from white religious voters this fall. The pandemic is sending his numbers the other way

A sudden shift in support for Donald Trump among religious conservatives is triggering alarm bells inside his reelection campaign, where top aides have long banked on expanding the president’s evangelical base as a key part of their strategy for victory this November.

The anxiety over Trump’s standing with the Christian right surfaced after a pair of surveys by reputable outfits earlier this month found waning confidence in the administration’s coronavirus response among key religious groups, with a staggering decline in the president’s favorability among white evangelicals and white Catholics. Both are crucial constituencies that supported Trump by wide margins in 2016 and could sink his reelection prospects if their turnout shrinks this fall.

The polls paint a bleak picture for Trump, who has counted on broadening his religious support by at least a few percentage points to compensate for weakened appeal with women and suburban populations. One GOP official said the dip in the president’s evangelical support also appeared in internal party polling, but disputed the notion that it had caused panic. Another person close to the campaign described an April survey by the Public Religion Research Institute, which showed a double-digit decline in Trump’s favorability among white evangelicals (-11), white Catholics (-12) and white mainline protestants (-18) from the previous month, as “pretty concerning.”
It was blazingly obvious to me from the moment Trump said that what the real motivation behind it was. It was a calculated and desperate attempt to regain the support he perceived he had lost from the strongly religiously inclined. I don't think most of them are dumb enough to fall for it, but I have little doubt that some of them will. I hope the latter group will not be numerous enough to swing the election in his favor!

I don't think Trump even cares if opening the churches the way he wants to do will make the coronavirus pandemic even worse than it now is. He may even be cynically counting on that, and and hoping to turn that into an excuse to declare martial law and postpone the general election, as well as abrogating constitutionally guaranteed freedoms, such as freedom of the press, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly (except for Christian church services, of course) and even, ironically, freedom of religion itself (except, of course, for the religious who are fanatically supportive of Donald J. Trump).
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun May 24, 2020 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Gunnar »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
Chap,

90% of us didn’t, either. Maybe 99.9999% if you want to add an inability to correlate information to the real world in addition to not retaining it.

- Doc
Yes, I am often both amazed and dismayed by how many Americans fail to retain even some of the most fundamental things they should have learned in elementary school, let alone the fundamentals of our constitution and how our government is supposed to work. No wonder Trump was able to dupe so many into voting for him!

Upon watching episodes of Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader I was often astounded by how few of the contestants knew the answers to easy questions that most of the fifth graders on the panel were quite familiar with. I even saw one supposedly well educated, highly successful lawyer who flunked out on the very first and easiest first grade question! There were quite a number of those shows I saw where had I been the contestant, I would have won the million dollar prize, and none of the questions were particularly difficult! I have a home version of the game, and I almost invariably get all the questions right, including the final, million dollar question.
Last edited by Gunnar on Sun May 24, 2020 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Gunnar »

Chap wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:09 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:35 pm
Chap,

90% of us didn’t, either. Maybe 99.9999% if you want to add an inability to correlate information to the real world in addition to not retaining it.

- Doc
Thanks for the comment. Dr. C.

All my life I have found it useful - often vital - to make myself familiar with the rules governing a body in which I am involved in any significant way - the statute law when applicable, the standing orders of a committee on which I serve, the charter of an incorporated body with which I have to deal, and so on. It's amazing how many people don't: they just go by some vague sense of what they think is reasonable, or of how they would like things to be.

In the UK there is no written constitution. But since you have one in the US (that has advantages and disadvantages), I suggest that every American concerned by the threat posed by Trump should read it pretty damn quick! He certainly hasn't.
I couldn't agree with you more! I have a copy of the U.S. Constitution downloaded to my computer (it is not all that long), and I refer to it from time to time. I think all Americans should consider themselves duty bound to do the same.

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Some Schmo
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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Some Schmo »

Gunnar wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 2:51 pm
Upon watching episodes of Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader I was often astounded by how few of the contestants knew the answers to easy questions that most of the fifth graders on the panel were quite familiar with. I even saw one supposedly well educated, highly successful lawyer who flunked out on the very first and easiest first grade question! There were quite a number of those shows I saw where had I been the contestant, I would have won the million dollar prize, and none of the questions were particularly difficult! I have a home version of the game, and I almost invariably get all the questions right, including the final, million dollar question.
That's hilarious Gunnar. My wife and I used to watch that show pretty regularly and she would say every week, "You should go on. You get every answer right!" The questions really were elementary. I suspect people were paid to ____ up. All too often, I'd think. Come on... you don't remember that?

Yeah, I'm amazed how much from school people have either forgotten or never learned in the first place.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

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subgenius wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:05 pm
Oh yay! another white person telling me what real racism is.
... said the guy who once claimed that Obama wasn’t “black enough”.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Jersey Girl »

I want to show you guys a sample response that was linked by a local pastor to his blog.
This letter was written by Pastor Tim Walker, a pastor acquaintance of mine from Cleveland, Ohio. He wrote this to his congregation and the fellowship of churches he serves. This perspective is valuable for all Christians.

——————————————

A lot of people are sending me videos of nationally respected leaders asking “every church to open their doors immediately.” Some members are upset and threatening to go somewhere else, if we don’t open our buildings by Pentecost Sunday.

Trust me; I understand the frustration and probably want to resume corporate worship more than most anyone else in our congregation. BUT…I’m accountable to God for making decisions that are in the best interests of the whole congregation; not just me, or the few most vocal members.

As I’ve been praying about it, I’ve borrowed some suggestions and wisdom from other Pastors, combined them with my own thought process and want to give you a few things to consider.

1. This is one of the most difficult decisions we as Pastors will ever have to make.

The timing of when and how to open our buildings is without a doubt the most grueling decision I’ve ever had to grapple with. There is no instructional manual and none of us have ever led through a global pandemic before. We love our people and have to consider the strongest and the weakest among them. We also have to consider those who are young and healthy as well as those who are older, sickly, or have compromised immunity. We also have to live with the long-term consequences of every decision we make. I’ve labored in prayer ever since this began, seeking God continually for guidance and direction. I’m very confident most others local Pastors have as well. No one wants the local church to succeed more than we do. Please give us the liberty to lead and prayerfully follow us.

2. While I appreciate national church leaders and try to support them and glean from them, they do not have the right or authority to speak on behalf of the local church. They don’t know our people, our circumstances, or the challenges of our situations.

Pastoring a large congregation, or being on national television doesn’t make you an international spokesperson for the Body of Christ. It’s the local pastors who marry, counsel, bury, advise, wipe away the tears, visit the hospitals, pray for, and walk with people through life; not television personalities who don’t know your name or your kids names, and are so insulated if you’re lucky you can get an autograph but won’t ever have their phone number.

I love them, and they create great opportunities for us, but they don’t know our specifics, they don’t have to manage our resources, and don’t have to deal with the repercussions of our decisions. They do not speak for me or most other local Pastors.

3. Don’t compare your church’s decision with that of other churches. Each church is unique in size, layout, staffing, age demographics, and resources. One size doesn’t fit all. What may work brilliantly for one could be disastrous for another. No one knows your church and its members like your Pastors and leaders. Different areas of the country have had different levels or exposure to this virus. What is right for a rural area, may not be right for an urban area. The population density is different, the laws are different, and the rate of exposure is different. Your pastors have to make these decisions considering all of these factors and more. Pray for them, support them, offer to help them, and most of all trust them!

4. Support your church during the transition. While we are waiting for the right timing, please support your Pastors and your local church. It’s estimated that at least 30% of congregations under 100 adults either will not re-open, or will not survive through the end of the year. Don’t allow your church to be a casualty. Your community needs the voice and the ministry of the local church. Don’t allow it to be silenced! The global church will prevail, but the success of the local church depends on OUR faithfulness. Support it with prayer, finances, service, and loyalty. Check on your Pastors and leaders. They are carrying a massive load and every prayer, offering, or word of encouragement matters…it really does!

5. Even if you disagree with their timing for reopening, stand in unity and don’t allow the enemy to bring strife, confusion, or divisiveness. Our nation has increasingly become more polarized over the past 15 years. The media, politics, social media, the internet, pride, and most of all, spiritual distancing…yes, spiritual distancing…(my new term for those who have continued to neglect their walk with God and have instead chosen to live in the flesh), have created massive disunity in the body of Christ. Don’t fall for it! Protect your heart, your relationships, your values and don’t trade gold for brass!

Choose love over hatred…trust over suspicion, grace over judgment. Give your Pastors, leaders, and other believers the benefit of the doubt. They’re not perfect and they’re going to make mistakes. Allow them a safe place to grow and learn as well. They really are trying to do what’s best for you!

6. When your church does re-open live services, please ATTEND, serve, give, connect to a group or a team. Sunday services are not for entertainment purposes…they’re for ministry. Get involved in the ministry of your church.

We will re-open our buildings as soon as we feel services can be held in a safe and secure environment. Until then, let’s plaster social media with the good news of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and let’s remain focused on what’s really important.

Just a few thoughts from a tired, frustrated but determined Pastor.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by moksha »

Israel’s Benjamin Netanyahu sounds a lot like Donald Trump as he attacks the justice system as his corruption trial begins. Con-men and crooks seem to instinctively know to attack the press and those who would bring them to justice. Their minions from hell and Russian trolls will continue to influence social media and even Mormon Discussions with Trumperous vigor.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Gunnar »

Some Schmo wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:36 pm
That's hilarious Gunnar. My wife and I used to watch that show pretty regularly and she would say every week, "You should go on. You get every answer right!" The questions really were elementary. I suspect people were paid to ____ up. All too often, I'd think. Come on... you don't remember that?
That's exactly the reaction I often had.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

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Here is the latest from the 9th Circuit, affirming the denial of the request for a TRO. https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/ ... _order.pdf Essentially, the Church involved had requested an emergency order to force Governor Newsom to allow churches to reopen and that request was denied. The 9th Circuit just upheld the denial and churches must continue to follow Governor Newsom's orders.

The church appealed to the Supreme Court. https://www.politico.com/states/califor ... wn-1286207

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

Post by Some Schmo »

You know there will be a large number of people out there who see this as a nonsensical "test of faith." If they open up churches, people will go, and if they don't get sick, it will affirm their faith. Even worse, if they do get sick, some will actually blame themselves.

I'd highly recommend they attend church and test their faith were it not for the fact that we can't necessarily contain their stupidity, and they probably have enough contact with normal people to spread the virus.

It would be faster and less harmful to the general public if they tested their faith on gravity rather than medical science.

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Re: Most Nakedly Political Move Since Palin

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Some Schmo wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:31 am
You know there will be a large number of people out there who see this as a nonsensical "test of faith."
It isn't a test of faith. It's a biology test. A lot of people are failing. The makeup exam will be the second wave.

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