Paycheck Protection Program

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Icarus
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Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

I applied for the stimulus for my company the day the application was made available nearly three weeks ago. This is the email I receive tonight:

Image

It looks like Red States tend to have first dibs on the funds: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020 ... n-program/

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moksha
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by moksha »

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2020 ... n-program/

I would like to think the willingness of Trump to play politics in all things will bite him in the butt, unfortunately he seems to get away with all his crimes thanks to a Republican Senate.

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ajax18
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by ajax18 »

I don't know what the best solution to this is but it's not putting 30% of us on unemployment for the next 3 or 4 months.

EAllusion
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

The PPP money is already gone. There's crude data out now on who got it. Here's a map of the % of requests filled by state.

https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/smal ... -ppp-loans

People have noticed that red states faired much better than blue states, but I think more information is needed before drawing any conclusions about political bias here. What's notable to me is that you can see that lots of loan requests weren't approved. There's a lot of businesses out there who likely feel they were left out in the cold.

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Dr Exiled
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Dr Exiled »

The stimulus bill vote was unanimous and so there is a lot of blame to go around. It's unconscionable that the PPP money ran out and even more so that small business had to go through the banks and not get the money directly from the government. So, what are the democrats doing to right the wrongs here? What is their proposal? Why don't they force a vote on UBI for the duration of the crisis so we can properly ride out the pandemic as Fauci is suggesting we do? Now is the time to strike and force Trump and his corporate raiders to do the right thing and bail out the people for once instead of just wall street. This is where Biden could get more people behind him if he chooses to act.

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Icarus
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

EAllusion wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:16 am
People have noticed that red states faired much better than blue states, but I think more information is needed before drawing any conclusions about political bias here. What's notable to me is that you can see that lots of loan requests weren't approved. There's a lot of businesses out there who likely feel they were left out in the cold.
Yep. What's also notable is how states that were the least impacted had the highest rates of loan approval.

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Icarus
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

I was wondering when this would become news. It was bound to happen.

Dead people are getting $1200 checks in the mail

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-i ... =home-page

EAllusion
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

Democrats, or more specifically Pelosi, Schumer, and their inner circle while Pelosi deliberately keeps Congress shuttered, are near the end of negotiating a second infusion of hundreds of billions into the PPP program. Despite the Trump admin desperately wanting it if only for election related reasons, Pelosi and co. managed to get no meaningful concessions in exchange for just handing it over. No election protection, post office relief, automatic stabilizers, UI, local and state government relief, etc. In fact, the Whitehouse is indicating its trying to block local and state government funding in order to put financial pressure on them to rescind their stay-at-home orders, and Democratic leadership is just going right along with what sounds like a blatant extortion attempt even worse than what they impeached him for. And remember, in the last round of negotiations, the Trump admin flat out lied to them and immediately altered the deal and dared Democrats to try to enforce the law they just passed. Democrats, it seems, declined. All this is occurring while the President is leading a federal government that is telling states to find their own medical supplies, then setting up a sanctions-style blockade where they confiscate the equipment or outbid those states for it, then redistribute it to connected parties as political favors. Dem negotiations decided to not include "hey, stop that" as a condition of giving billions and billions of dollars.

The "concession" Democrats are parading as an accomplishment in this round is some comparatively small funding for medical providers, which isn't a concession so much as the most basic thing possible in the middle of a pandemic medical providers are being expected to address regardless of ability to pay.

Assuming that reporting is accurate, either they are on the same side as the Trump admin and just care about not appearing that way or they are suckers on the level of Trump University customers.

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honorentheos
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by honorentheos »

EAllusion, could you share your source(s), please? It sounds outrageous if true and I'd be interested in reading it first hand.

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

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Which part? I made a few different claims linking together a couple of stories. I'm not sure which part you haven't read about yet. There's a lot of outrageous things in there.

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

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1) Pelosi and Schumer and their staff/allies are in negotiations with McConnell and Mnuchin to pass an infusion of several hundred billion dollars into PPP.
2) This is occurring while Pelosi has kept Congress in an extended recess (that was recently extended to early May), which forces Congressional members out of a more vocal role in negotiations and dares them to take heat for holding up a unanimous consent vote and delaying relief.
3) Terms of the deal both sides say are close are being reported in the press as including about 400 billion to PPP in exchange for about 100 billion to medical providers and some other lesser add-ons. The latter is being treated as a negotiated concession.
4) Following #3, despite Democrats having significant leverage over a Trump admin in need of propping up the economy, the negotiations do not include, among other things, post office relief, election security measure such as funding for VBM, no-excuse absentee voting, etc., UI, hazard pay for essential workers to discourage seeking superior UE benefits, aid to state and local governments, automatic stabilizers to tie relief to conditions in case Democrats win in November and Republicans react like they have for years and go into sabotage and obstruct mode, and so on.
5) The Trump admin is indicating, as reported by Axios and Politico, that they are holding firm on no aid for state and local governments because they do not want states to resist a federal push for them to "re-open" their economies and cratering local budgets are motivation for them not to do that.
6) After phase 3 negotiations concluded and the legislation was passed with some weak oversight measures compromised at the very end supposedly to get Democratic buy-in, Trump issued a signing statement that announced the admin's intent to disregard every meaningful piece of accountability negotiated in the bill, then engaged in a purge of IG's that directly impacted that bill's enforcement mechanism, then has already started to operate around the intent of the legislation's transparency measures. Democrats, so far, have reacted to this with basically nothing. That can at least in part be explained by the fact that they are in extended recess. That they aren't trying to fix this in the next round of negotiations; however, cannot be explained by Congressional recess.
7) The Trump has repeatedly, in a variety of public and private contexts, told state governments to develop their own supply chains for medical equipment they are in need of - everything from respirators to vents. The Trump admin, despite this, has been systematically seizing shipments of medical equipment states have secured at ports and airports, leading to state governments and hospitals engaging in some elaborate attempts to evade the Feds. The Trump admin has also been outbidding states for equipment on the market. While there is no transparency over what the Federal government is doing with their seized and outbidded equipment, there is some information on at least where some of it is going. This includes shipping it out as political favors, if only because Donald Trump has announced doing so on twitter on multiple occasions.
8) The Democrats negotiation of this funding doesn't seem to address this issue according to reports, as they probably view it as distinct from small - well "small" - business funding rather than the Trump's need for appropriations as a leverage point to do something about it.

Ok. This can be broken down even further obviously, but which of these are you looking for links for?

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

My guess is that Pelosi is going is eventually allow Democrats pass things like election security, UI, etc. in a separate bill after they've handed all their leverage over to Republicans, have it immediately shot down, and go "Well, We tried. What do want? The mean Republicans stopped us. Please vote for us."

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honorentheos
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by honorentheos »

Any and all. I'm not really chasing news these days. But as I said, if what you are saying is going on, it's pretty outrageous and people ought to be outraged. So I'm interested in going right to the sources but haven't seen this in my minimalist news diet I'm on during my current wfh arrangements.

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

[quote=honorentheos post_id=1222236 time=1587356804 user_id=7137]
Any and all. I'm not really chasing news these days. But as I said, if what you are saying is going on, it's pretty outrageous and people ought to be outraged. So I'm interested in going right to the sources but haven't seen this in my minimalist news diet I'm on during my current wfh arrangements.
[/quote]
Oh boy. It's late. I'll put together a link list tomorrow when I have time. I was hoping that you already were aware of most of this and were just looking for me to source a point or two.

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honorentheos
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by honorentheos »

I did read earlier today about a congressperson from I think Chicago who made the point the big stimulus bill was basically created by a handful of people negotiating over phone calls such that no one really had much say as to what should be done or engaged in much debate or even discussion in it's creation. His point being it was pretty unrepresentative and possibly a bad direct for representative government if Congress isn't actually functioning as a body but rather as just props for a few of the most powerful to hold out as somehow legitimizing what could ultimately prove to be poorly thought through and damaging legislation. So what you are saying has some similarities with the bonus of being current rather than retrospective. So maybe that covers your first three points or so.

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

One theory for why Pelosi is keeping Congress shuttered while 20+ million people have lost their jobs, the economy is in the early stages of Depression, a pandemic killing 10's of thousands of people and upturning normal life is that by doing she can have better control over negotiations for bills. While Congress is closed, Pelosi, Schumer, and a few select others are still negotiating complex legislation involving 100's of billions of dollars that's intended to be passed. Congress just gets to either consent to it or not with "not" risking a lot of heat to whomever stands opposed. On this theory, it's a move against allowing the progressive part of her caucus to force concessions with the leverage Democrats have over Republicans by virtue of Republicans being more likely to be punished by voters for bad conditions leading into an election.

This is plausible, but I'd like to see more before I believe it. Sans that theory, however, and nothing else comes to mind besides unfathomable incompetence / dereliction of duty. Pelosi hasn't explained herself here beyond some banal statements that are quite unpersuasive. This is the biggest emergency, at least in scope, since WW II and Congress is *closed*.

*shrugs*

Whatever the case may be, it's Pelosi and Schumer's negotiation rather than Democrats as a whole under normal conditions. So you have to split hairs and make sure you point out this is the stance of "Democratic leadership" rather than what the Democratic caucus might do together if they were a functioning body, which they are not.

The failure to even protect elections, of which propping up USPS probably is inextricably linked, is what I regard as the most outrageous. Almost everything the Democrats punted on in the previous phases and are reported to be in this one are things that are wildly popular in polling. It's just stunning, and ultimately counter-productive political cowardice.

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Icarus
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... democratic

I think this goes over EAllusion's concerns

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Icarus
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

EAllusion what do you think of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on this?

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/alexandr ... 5b5872da94

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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by EAllusion »

Oh God dang it. I just wrote a very long post that was swallowed up.

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Icarus
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by Icarus »

Nooooooooo

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subgenius
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Re: Paycheck Protection Program

Post by subgenius »

EAllusion wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:49 pm
One theory for why Pelosi ...
I am reminded of a thread/post from the past that fixated on President Monson's declaration "Let's go shopping!" and how Pelosi's "Let's go to Chinatown" isn't at all far removed from that same sentiment and circumstance.

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