Life Under Coronavirus

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

“Anybody that wants a test, right now, can get a test.”

I called my PCM, quoted President Trump above, and was met with a snicker and polite explanation that’s not the case. Has anyone here been tested for the virus?

- Doc

EAllusion
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by EAllusion »

[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1221575 time=1586742550 user_id=3779]
“Anybody that wants a test, right now, can get a test.”

I called my PCM, quoted President Trump above, and was met with a snicker and polite explanation that’s not the case. Has anyone here been tested for the virus?

- Doc
[/quote]Testing availability varies by state and location, but in my neck of the woods, it's still incredibly hard to get a test unless you are already in a dire situation. I'm a high probability candidate for having had COVID, and I ultimately was turned down even though I was set to get a chest x-ray before my symptoms improved. Chest x-ray? Yes. Coronavirus test? No.

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MsJack
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by MsJack »

They wouldn't test my son with his intermittent fever a few weeks ago, even though my medical group developed its own in-house testing. They said they'd test me if I developed symptoms because I'm pregnant, and they'd test my 13yo daughter if she developed symptoms because she's 22q, but I guess the males in my house can go pound sand.

We will not be able to reopen the economy without widespread, freely available testing. People are not going to be able to "presume positive" and go quarantine themselves for 2-3 weeks every time someone in the household has what could be a mild symptom.

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

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[quote=MsJack post_id=1221581 time=1586749551 user_id=1515]
They wouldn't test my son with his intermittent fever a few weeks ago, even though my medical group developed its own in-house testing. They said they'd test me if I developed symptoms because I'm pregnant, and they'd test my 13yo daughter if she developed symptoms because she's 22q, but I guess the males in my house can go pound sand.

We will not be able to reopen the economy without widespread, freely available testing. People are not going to be able to "presume positive" and go quarantine themselves for 2-3 weeks every time someone in the household has what could be a mild symptom.
[/quote]

One of the things I (and, well, lot of people) have noticed with the "reopen the economy" rhetoric is that its often portrayed as if that's a politician's decision. And, sure, on one level state and local authorities can rescind orders that have shut things down. (The President, not so much.) But they can't make people resume economic activity like it was a year ago. If the movie theaters open back up, I sure as heck am not going to a movie. I'm going to continue avoiding public gatherings where I can and spend my money cautiously given the prevailing Depression-like conditions. So you'll have a bunch of businesses open, but with significantly less demand that will crater them unless almost all people feel relatively safe. And the best way to make people feel safe is going to be to actually make them safe.

There's a couple variations on plans to do that - one of which is testing on a scale about two orders of magnitude above what we're doing now that people are mandated to take - backed up by a strong quarantine apparatus. We seem no where near being able to do that, though.

There's no normal here until we get an effective vaccine or one or more treatments that significantly reduce the risk the virus presents to people.

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by EAllusion »

One of the interesting things that has come into relief as more data has come in is that COVID is more dangerous to males than females. In America, you're about twice as likely to die from a serious COVID-19 case if you are a male than if you are a female. That was apparent in the initial data from China, but there was no way to tell if that was the result of cultural factors or something related to sexual dimorphism. Then the same pattern showed up in Italy, but, again, it was hard to disentangle cultural factors from heritable factors. The pattern has persisted through many countries now with large variations in cultural attitudes that would theoretically impact environmental factors. It's probably a heritable issue, but no one knows specifically why at this point.

Being a man is a risk factor for the disease.

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Icarus
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

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Being black is a risk factor too.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

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[quote=Icarus post_id=1221602 time=1586778853 user_id=19355]
Being black is a risk factor too.
[/quote]

To piggyback on that statement. From CNN:

“If few black Americans are getting tested for HIV or the coronavirus, you could potentially have infected people unknowingly spreading both diseases through the community.

Says Allen, "It creates the perfect storm of disproportionate numbers."”

CNN also suggests since Blacks are more likely to be in the service industry they’re at risk of catching the CV. Whatever the case may be, whether it’s lifestyle-induced issues like sexual behavior, diet, or ignoring social distancing, I’m not sure how they, or anyone, can get tested. Even people who, like CNN suggests, have magically risen out of poverty can’t get tested even though PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID TESTS ARE AVAILABLE AND ANYONE WHO WANTS ONE CAN GET TESTED.

I’m starting to believe the Right actually enjoys being lied to. Like. I’m not being facetious. I think it makes them feel good. It’s a sort of coping mechanism they enjoy. It’s the oddest thing...

- Doc

EAllusion
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by EAllusion »

[quote=Icarus post_id=1221602 time=1586778853 user_id=19355]
Being black is a risk factor too.
[/quote]

That one isn't cross-cultural, though. It's a correlation with other risk factors in the US - poor access to health care, higher employment in low-paying service sector jobs that remain open and interact with the public, higher incidence of heart disease, diabetes, etc., greater reliance on public transportation, and so on.

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Icarus
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Icarus »

My neighbor just told me that the reason black people are high risk is because of poor hygiene. Something I'd expect to hear from Ajax.

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Icarus
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Icarus »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:44 am
Icarus wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:54 am
Being black is a risk factor too.
To piggyback on that statement. From CNN:

“If few black Americans are getting tested for HIV or the coronavirus, you could potentially have infected people unknowingly spreading both diseases through the community.

Says Allen, "It creates the perfect storm of disproportionate numbers."”

CNN also suggests since Blacks are more likely to be in the service industry they’re at risk of catching the CV. Whatever the case may be, whether it’s lifestyle-induced issues like sexual behavior, diet, or ignoring social distancing, I’m not sure how they, or anyone, can get tested. Even people who, like CNN suggests, have magically risen out of poverty can’t get tested even though PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID TESTS ARE AVAILABLE AND ANYONE WHO WANTS ONE CAN GET TESTED.

I’m starting to believe the Right actually enjoys being lied to. Like. I’m not being facetious. I think it makes them feel good. It’s a sort of coping mechanism they enjoy. It’s the oddest thing...

- Doc
Speaking of which

A full month of broken promises by Trump

Lemmie
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Lemmie »

Just checking in, Hope all is well with you and your familIes, especially MsJack, with your little ones!

I’ve got two college age boys under my feet now who, being the sweet lovely boys they are, are still running me ragged while we are all trying to shelter in place while they finish their online semesters, so I can only imagine the challenges someone with small children faces!

For example, all tracks, hiking paths, parks and outdoor places are gradually being locked up or caution-taped here, and since every person in our house is used to a very physical lifestyle, pretty much all I can do to avoid people while getting activity is to wrangle my brood for a walk down the middle of the streets, like I’m John Wayne herding cattle with a bunch of little kids for crew. (Although fact that we all have gloves, sunglasses, earbuds, with bandannas and/or n-95 masks covering our mouths makes us look more like a crew getting ready to knock over a bank or two. We wave at the few cops we see, and they wave back. Surreal.)

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MsJack
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

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Thanks, Lemmie. I'm glad your boys are adjusting. My two homeschool students don't like their new teacher and I may have made one of them write "I will not swear at my teacher" out on paper 20 times. ;-)

Pregnancy is going well! I'll have to post some pictures of the baby's nursery later. Since I'm pretty much done with that, I painted and organized my study and my master bedroom and am running out of household projects to work on.

Just got my stimulus deposit today! Waiting to see if they'll be forking over my XH's check, too. (He owes me thousands in back child support, but I suspect he may not have filed taxes for 2018 or 2019.)

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Dr Exiled
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Dr Exiled »

One of the moms on my son's club baseball team posted that on the first day of home school, both of her kids were suspended for fighting .... I'm sure many have seen that meme go around.

Image

On another note, I feel like a fish in a blender waiting for the power to be turned on. I almost want to be exposed to the corona virus and get it over with so my family and me can get immunity and move on.

Image

DoubtingThomas
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:10 pm
but there was no way to tell if that was the result of cultural factors or something related to sexual dimorphism.
The answer could be evolution. Sociology is not hard science, but biology is.

"Specifically, they wanted to test the 'unguarded X hypothesis' which suggests that the Y chromosome in heterogametic sexes -- those with XY (male) sex chromosomes rather than XX (female) sex chromosomes -- is less able to protect an individual from harmful genes expressed on the X chromosome. The hypothesis suggests that, as the Y chromosome is smaller than the X chromosome, and in some cases absent, it is unable to 'hide' an X chromosome that carries harmful mutations, which may later expose the individual to health threats."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 141650.htm

"Mammal study explains 'why females live longer'
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52007780
Last edited by DoubtingThomas on Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by DoubtingThomas »

The theory of evolution always impresses me, it explains a lot of things.

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MsJack
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by MsJack »

The ax partially fell for me and my husband today; he's being furloughed 4/20 - 5/15 (it's his entire team, they aren't singling him out). They gave him a great performance review and said they absolutely hope to bring him back mid-May. They're also giving him his annual bonus, so between that and the stimulus checks, even without applying for unemployment, we aren't financially hurting (yet). Overall we are well-prepared for this.

I'm laughing though because it's my third baby and somehow it's the third time I'm approaching my due date and I'm bringing home a paycheck and the baby daddy is not. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by EAllusion »

[quote=DoubtingThomas post_id=1221676 time=1586890385 user_id=19018]
[quote=EAllusion post_id=1221585 time=1586751031 user_id=1078]but there was no way to tell if that was the result of cultural factors or something related to sexual dimorphism. [/quote]

The answer could be [b]evolution[/b]. Sociology is not hard science, but biology is.

"Specifically, they wanted to test the 'unguarded X hypothesis' which suggests that the Y chromosome in heterogametic sexes -- those with XY (male) sex chromosomes rather than XX (female) sex chromosomes -- is less able to protect an individual from harmful genes expressed on the X chromosome. The hypothesis suggests that, as the Y chromosome is smaller than the X chromosome, and in some cases absent, it is unable to 'hide' an X chromosome that carries harmful mutations, which [b]may later expose the individual to health threats[/b]."
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 141650.htm

"Mammal study explains 'why females live longer'
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52007780
[/quote]
I studied organic evolution as it relates to infectious diseases for the better part of a semester in college. And let me tell, my education in cell biology with some focused interest on this kind of thing isn't helping at all.

Ok, that might be a slight exaggeration. I can at least still read contemporary published papers and usually understand them well. So that's something. But it's not a lot.

With respect to this issue, the X chromosome has a high density of genes and regulatory elements related to immune system function. There are other known instances of differing responses to diseases between males and females because of this. It's just in this case, no one really knows what's going on here in terms of the mechanism causing the difference. You can vaguely gesture at sexual dimorphism in the variance of immune systems, but that doesn't say all that much.

While reading about this, I did read a paper studying this phenomenon in SARS-COV in mice. There are probably differing outcomes between the sexes in OG SARS and MERS as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5450662/

Because they were able to change the female disease outcomes to male-like by ovariectomies or administering a estrogen receptor antagonist, they concluded evidence suggests the difference is mediated at the hormonal signaling level.

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by DoubtingThomas »

EAllusion wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:04 pm
Ok, that might be a slight exaggeration. I can at least still read contemporary published papers and usually understand them well. So that's something. But it's not a lot.

With respect to this issue, the X chromosome has a high density of genes and regulatory elements related to immune system function. There are other known instances of differing responses to diseases between males and females because of this. It's just in this case, no one really knows what's going on here in terms of the mechanism causing the difference. You can vaguely gesture at sexual dimorphism in the variance of immune systems, but that doesn't say all that much.

While reading about this, I did read a paper studying this phenomenon in SARS-COV in mice. There are probably differing outcomes between the sexes in OG SARS and MERS as well.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5450662/

Because they were able to change the female disease outcomes to male-like by ovariectomies or administering a estrogen receptor antagonist, they concluded evidence suggests the difference is mediated at the hormonal signaling level.
That is interesting.

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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by Jersey Girl »

Finally felt like adding to this thread. The original intent of this thread seems to have veered off a bit. This post probably will as well. I don't know if anything I'm saying here is a repeat.

Positive: I probably said this before but I've never been so happy that I live out in the sticks. Haven't see the inside of a real store for over a month now and I don't miss it. Our little part of the world has really pulled together out here. A local eatery (we have 5 or 6 little places all privately owned) offered to order supplies for people at cost. They helped me to get a case of bleach (!) and even offered to deliver free (I picked up) for which I was so grateful! It's a pizza place that has been here for years and now has locations in the actual town. The owner is from back East and man, did he rain down some East Coast heart on the greater community. They've been donating pizza to first responders and hospital staff all over the area. I tried to reciprocate by giving them some family orders at all three locations--put some money back in the till so to speak. His staff is masked, gloved and sanitizing everything in sight.

The ranchers and farmers are offering eggs, meat, goat's milk, etc. at competitive prices. A local place that does aquaponics opens every Friday to give away their greens to whoever shows up. I've seen people on our local Facebook group offering to pick up groceries for others who are at risk and shouldn't really be going out. Folks are giving away and also selling masks--depends on who is doing the sewing and for whom.

Everyone in the family has managed to stay well. I've seen my kids from a distance or through glass twice, we're doing Facetime stuff and hanging in there. Jersey Boy is giving up his volunteer work at the food pantry in a couple of weeks. They're over staffed and he's at risk, wearing his mask each time. He'll go back in a couple of months. We still have a good stash of food. It's lasting longer than I expected. We really have all we need. Amazon and a couple of craft store websites own me now.

So you know how folks in Italy were singing to each other? Here in CO residents are HOWLING every night at 8 pm to thank the folks on the front line of this mess. First you hear the people howling, then the dogs start up and someone even reported they heard Elk bugling one night. I keep wondering if the coyotes are all tripped out because the human's have taken over their territory? The deer seem to like having the run of the roads right now. They're coming out of the woodwork around here. Had a herd of 15 on Easter Sunday down in front.


Negative: Of course it's the human suffering. Second is Trump who has got to be the biggest ____ up on the planet. I won't go into it. Anyone with a brain can see it. So many Republicans and Democrats are following Cuomo's briefings. If the man threw his hat in the ring for President, he'd win it in a New York minute. He delivers the facts straight up, no ____, and with heart. I know people like him. His delivery is very familiar to me and I appreciate it. I follow both his and the White House briefings, though to be honest, I often now wait until it's over, watch the replay and just listen to Dr. Fauci and Dr. Birx because Trump is plainly full of ____. I want to keep tabs on what's coming out of his actual mouth but I can only tolerate so much ____ at one time that I have to take it in small doses just so I know what he's putting out there. Which again, is ____, but I still want to know.

by the way, if you haven't seen the briefing where Cuomo put Trump's ____ in the street, you missed something good. ;-)

On a personal level, the negative for me is not being able to touch my people. I suppose we could get together if we wanted to but not one of us wants to be responsible for harming any of us, so we're apart physically. The other is that I recognize that I people are going through the grief process. I think the nation is one huge poster child for the Kubler-Ross model. I know I am. What I grieve for is time I'm losing. I don't know when I'll be able to touch my people again and I don't know when I'll be able to travel with some of them. I had plans for April and September and I can't do any of that until there is at minimum a therapeutic treatment for CV and if I'm to be bare bones honest, there needs to be a vaccine before I can cut out of here again.

All things considered, I'm tolerating the stay at home orders really well. I think introverts were made for this kind of thing. The less interaction that I have with people, the more I spend my time immersed in things that I love doing--for as long as I want to do them --which is like total bliss for me. I'm on my second online class now. I hesitate to call it an English Lit class (Shakespeare) because quite frankly, this one's so easy a first grader could do it in their sleep, but it's okay. The class is international and not all are English speakers so I guess that's why it seems to be dumbed down. I have another class in July for forensic psychology. I've been weaving like it's my job. I fabricated my own little loom and am learning to weave using cotton yarn. Hoping it works out well and I can graduate to a larger wooden loom--a real one. Multiple trips to the wood pile gave me enough material to work on other types of projects that mostly involve building, painting and staining. When the weather breaks, I've got 2 furniture sets to refinish and a list of other projects to follow. I feel like I could do this forever but who knows, maybe in another month it'll feel like forever! But it doesn't right now and I'm really at peace with life as it stands today. I'm not sure how much time I'll spend here now that the board is open. It's nothing against anyone, it's just that my attention is elsewhere and I like it this way.

I hope everyone's well and have found their stay at home groove. It was an adjustment, I know, and I'm sure it will wear on us to one degree or another. Just try to find your peace, folks. It's there. :-)

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msnobody
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by msnobody »

I'm working, but pretty much sequestered in a room at my workplace, with a computer, calling patients, and stepping out a few times a day to interact with others, checking fax, etc. I grew up an only child, and this is hard. You'd think I'd be better at this. Can I get a service animal? :eek:

EAllusion
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Re: Life Under Coronavirus

Post by EAllusion »

There's a preprint out of the first major hydrochloroquine study indicating it has no therapeutic benefit, with or without zpac, in treatment of COVID, but does have a statistically significant association with increased mortality rate. It's prudent to wait for peer-review, but that's doesn't sound too promising.

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