Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

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Maksutov
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:But that's not what you said.

" a "Buddhist" philosophical thought that for GOD to exist, evil needs to have always existed"

Your statement was false. That is *not* "Buddhist". The point of Buddhism is to end the cycle of endless reincarnations, to expiate one's karma and to work for the enlightenment of one's self and all other creatures. Christianity, with its substitutionary atonement, is nothing like Buddhism and neither is Judaism. The Abrahamic religions (including Mormonism) rely on anthropomorphic creator gods and patriarchal social orders with a common source. Buddhism is another thing entirely.

The most effective refutations of Mormonism come from the clear evidence of fraud by Smith in many instances and the utter lack of confirming evidence in the historical record of the unique claims of the religion.

What I said is that the Book of Mormon says (in II Nephi 2) that both Good and Evil MUST exist or GOD cannot. Buddhists believe GOOD and Evil are eternal (essentially complimenting each other). And the book of Mormon stipulates that for GOD to exist, evil must exist. That isn't a Christian view and it is closer to a Buddhist consideration of that conflict. The Christian view is that GOD existed eternally in perfection. GOD created, and an angel GOD created determined that he wanted to replace GOD. As a result Satan and not GOD is the author of SIN by his rebellion against the will of his creator. Mormon doctrine promotes Satan and Christ as children of GOD. I in no way wish to make this a debate about Buddhism.


You have made it a debate about Buddhism by bringing Buddhism into it. You misrepresent Buddhism. Show me where you got your understanding of Buddhism from. It *is* relevant because if you're willing to be so sloppy about Buddhism there is no reason to trust your other statements about any other religions.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov

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Jersey Girl
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Jersey Girl »

Maksutov wrote: You misrepresent Buddhism. Show me where you got your understanding of Buddhism from.


How did he misrepresent Buddhism or do you want to wait until he responds?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
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Maksutov
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Maksutov »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Maksutov wrote: You misrepresent Buddhism. Show me where you got your understanding of Buddhism from.


How did he misrepresent Buddhism or do you want to wait until he responds?


"God", "Good" and "Evil" as he uses them are not Buddhist concepts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Nipper needs to read more outside his Bible. :rolleyes:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov

LittleNipper
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by LittleNipper »

Maksutov wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:
How did he misrepresent Buddhism or do you want to wait until he responds?


"God", "Good" and "Evil" as he uses them are not Buddhist concepts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Nipper needs to read more outside his Bible. :rolleyes:

The Buddhist concept of a "balance" is.

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Maksutov
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Maksutov »

LittleNipper wrote:
Maksutov wrote:"God", "Good" and "Evil" as he uses them are not Buddhist concepts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism

Nipper needs to read more outside his Bible. :rolleyes:

The Buddhist concept of a "balance" is.

You might want to look into Zoroaster for another concept of balance.

I rather like the Mormon idea that the "fall" was a positive thing. But then they screw up everything else related to it.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov

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moksha
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

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Maksutov wrote:I rather like the Mormon idea that the "fall" was a positive thing. But then they screw up everything else related to it.

The rise to sentience was definitely a good thing. It allows us to type out a message rather than pressing the big red DENIAL key as purely instinctual creatures.
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iwanttotalk
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by iwanttotalk »

2. Nephi is told of GOD to murder a fellow Israelite who is drunk. That in itself is off because unless in the heat of battle or clearing with invaders, or ridding the land of evil people groups --- all squabbles between the Israelites/Jews were to be dealt with legally. Read the Bible and note the laws guiding how matters were to be handled among themselves in the land. And then there is the simple fact that GOD could have sent an angel or caused some accident or disease to kill to Laban. I'm sure Mormons have heard this all before...

I hate to disagree but “killing” wasn't actually a sin, only murder was. An accidental death for example one could flee to a sanctuary city.

One other providion was “if god delivered him unto your hand”

Since laban was “delivered” it was totes cool that nephi hacked his head off. No sin as he then fled.

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moksha
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by moksha »

iwanttotalk wrote:Since laban was “delivered” it was totes cool that nephi hacked his head off. No sin as he then fled.

If Ted Bundy had an apologetics lawyer he could be preparing for spring break brunch.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

iwanttotalk
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
iwanttotalk wrote:Since laban was “delivered” it was totes cool that nephi hacked his head off. No sin as he then fled.

If Ted Bundy had an apologetics lawyer he could be preparing for spring break brunch.


Exactly Moshka. It was the legal an ethical code of a bronze age civilization which had nothing like the sophistication we enjoy today.

Solomons wisdom was that he was going to cut a baby in half and it worked because he would have cut a baby in half!

Most scholors view that state of religion as the codification of law and not really religious in nature at all. It was statecraft. Most of the nuance has been lost because we no longer live in that world. Between poor translations and lack of context it has itself become a kind of absurdism if one devoutly follows it today.

It would be like robots in the future worshiping the united states civil code. Now let us recite USCC 1236.96 Amen!

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Doctor Steuss
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Doctor Steuss »

LittleNipper wrote:[...] Good and Evil MUST exist or GOD cannot. [...]

It is quite the rascally nut to crack.

Is God eternal?
Is God good, evil, or neither?
Can something be good if there is no such thing as evil?
If God is good, and He stopped being good, would God still be God?
Is goodness an inseparable part of God?
How many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center?

*brain-splode*
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski

Brackite
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Re: Problems thus far with the Book of Mormon!

Post by Brackite »

LittleNipper hasn't been around here in a while. Anyway, IMO, the biggest problem (anachronism) within the Book of Mormon is the mentioned of many horses.

Enos Chapter 1
21 And it came to pass that the people of Nephi did till the land, and raise all manner of grain, and of fruit, and flocks of herds, and flocks of all manner of cattle of every kind, and goats, and wild goats, and also many horses.



But there weren't many horses on the American Continent around 500 BCE.

North American horses disappeared around 8,000 - 10,000 years ago. Multiple factors including hunting by early Natives, climate change, and disease are thought to have helped contribute to their demise. They disappeared around the same time as other large mammals like Wooly Mammoths.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061029004 ... istory.asp


Horses returned to the Americas thousands of years later, well after domestication of the horse, beginning with Christopher Columbus in 1493. These were Iberian horses first brought to Hispaniola and later to Panama, Mexico, Brazil, Peru, Argentina, and, in 1538, Florida.[19] The first horses to return to the main continent were 16 specifically identified horses brought by Hernán Cortés in 1519. Subsequent explorers, such as Coronado and De Soto brought ever-larger numbers, some from Spain and others from breeding establishments set up by the Spanish in the Caribbean.[20]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_ ... ted_States


See also: http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com/horses.html
"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter

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