Martin Luther on God's Acceptance of Lies

[SPG]

A couple other comments... It never ceases to amaze me how obsessed ex-Mormon men are with polygamy. I’m not meaning you - you have a much more realistic idea of it. But I’ve noticed in some men - who could pick so many Mormon controversies - but focus on polygamy. I think it’s part of their shadow fantasy. ;) The fact is that many people practice secret polygamy - cheating. My husband’s dad had a whole other family in a different city - of which his other un-wed “wife” & family had no idea.

I like what you wrote, “We look for the functionality of thing more than the truth of it.” True! I’m sure there are many cases of functional illusions, but an obvious one is every 1st week of January- gyms are packed - the belief that daily exercise is most important... when really it’s like 20% & diet 80%. Yet, often exercise improves diet - so it works. Music and especially dance are also functional illusions - not exactly logically truthful - but they can be powerful in various ways.

In some cultures, it is common for a man to have two families. They don't call it polygamy, exactly, because as you said, they don't know about each other.

What kills me, is that many people think that men would many two women for the sex. That is like buying two ropes to hang yourself. Men do it for the identity of it. It feeds their sense of survival and accomplishments. It makes them feel like a man, twice. It's not easy or fun.

But, is the family less a family? My father's family took/takes a considerable amount of pride and pleasure in all of us. His life was fully dedicated to us. I have never felt cheated or slighted. But, I entertain myself in simpler ways. But I have noticed that many want to think that polygamy is all dirty secrets. Very often, it's a natural and sincere intention that drives it. But lies very often cost people everything.

[Amore]

But I have noticed that many want to think that polygamy is all dirty secrets. Very often, it's a natural and sincere intention that drives it. But lies very often cost people everything.

Indeed. “A liar isn’t believed even when they’re telling the truth.”

It’s understandable that despite being married to someone, spouses look at & are attracted to others. It’s understandable that we are all imperfect & regularly screw up. When someone gets caught & confronted, and then lies about it and tries to shift blame - it makes the broken trust even less likely to be mended.

A friend - like a brother since high school - has 2 “wives” and families in 2 different countries (which he struggles to support) and yet he’s often teased me for being in Joseph Smith’s polygamy cult. Lol. I joke back with him, “You like Joseph Smith so much, you follow in his footsteps with your multiple women!”

by the way, That’s funny in your comparing wanting 2 wives with wanting 2 roles to hang yourself. :)

[Physics Guy]

I have become a sort of Lutheran in practice, living in Germany. My previous Lutheran pastor had a version of Lutheranism with which I could easily live. The current one I disagree with more, though he's still the kind of conservative whose common sense, decency, and open-minded intelligence would surprise a lot of liberals.

I think there are things to despise about Luther, but at least he had the courage of his convictions and was willing to state things baldly. I understand that his statements on polygamy are about Philip of Hesse, who was a ruling prince stuck in a political marriage. Philip had been living the way a prince like that could, and his proposal to settle on one mistress, and marry her bigamously, arguably represented a moral step up. At any rate Luther decided that Philip's sex life wasn't a hill on which the Reformation should die, and having decided that, he wasn't mealy mouthed about it.

His writings about Jews and desperate peasants are a bigger problem for me. He was probably fairly enlightened for his time about gender issues because his wife had the money.