Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

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Markk
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Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Markk »

William Clayton's journal reads,

[August 23, 1843. Wednesday.] … President Joseph told me that he had difficulty with E[ mma] yesterday. She rode up to Woodworths with him and called while he came to the Temple. When he returned she was demanding the gold watch of F[ lora]. He reproved her for her evil treatment. On their return home she abused him much and also when he got home. He had to use harsh measures to put a stop to her abuse but finally succeeded …

George D. Smith. An Intimate Chronicle: The Journals of William Clayton (Kindle Locations 3928-3930). Signature Books. Kindle Edition.


While we will never know for sure, were the "harsh measures" physical abuse? We can say for certain he used mental abuse on some of these women...He threaten Emma mentally in section 132.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

Verse 63 speaks to virgins given to men like Smith, that if the "espoused" another man it was adultery, and would be destroyed

63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to multiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be glorified.

This is clearly a form of mental abuse, we know from testimony from a few of his wives, Joseph would explain the new law to his potential brides.

The more I read from those that knew Joseph first hand, and those that even married this man, the more apparent it is that he was a very abusive person, and I can't see any reason why he was not physically abusive.

FYI...
The gold watch in question was one that Joseph gave to a young wife, Flora Ann Woodworth. He had apparently married her earlier in the Spring, when she was just 16.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Maksutov
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Maksutov »

I don't know about that, but all of the cheating and lying I think amounted to emotional abuse.
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov

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AmyJo
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by AmyJo »

Just from what you proffered here it sure sounds like it. Have to agree on the emotional abuse aspect of how he treated Emma too.

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Markk
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Markk »

Maksutov wrote:I don't know about that, but all of the cheating and lying I think amounted to emotional abuse.


Like I said we will never really know...but what else could "harsh measures" mean?

Would telling her to shut up be harsh? Given his temperament I doubt it.

I am reading through personal journals and they sure paint a different picture of his persona than what we were taught by the church.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

mikegriffith1
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by mikegriffith1 »

Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.
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Themis
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Themis »

mikegriffith1 wrote:Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.


I doubt most people who knew Joseph ever commented historically on Joseph's generosity and kindness. Also can one make most people think they are kind, or actually be kind to most people, while still abusing their wife?
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Fence Sitter
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

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mikegriffith1 wrote:Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."

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SPG
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by SPG »

Fence Sitter wrote:
mikegriffith1 wrote:Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.

Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.

That was written in plain text, she abused him. But you are speculating if he abused her.

This is the blindness about all this justice people want to apply in retrospect.

She abused him, by the account, but you are wondering if he abused her. Women are strong and can be mean as hell.

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SPG
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by SPG »

Fence Sitter wrote:
mikegriffith1 wrote:Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

Most people who knew L. Ron Hubbard were impressed by him also.

Hubbard, was a misunderstood fellow as well. He was more used than a user. Check out some of the videos of his grandson, trying to clear his name.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... h%2Fx%2Fim

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Elphaba
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Elphaba »

SPG wrote:Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.


How did she abuse him?
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moksha
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by moksha »

SPG wrote:Why did everyone just sort of skip over the part where she abused him.

Was this abuse in the form of Emma getting angry about Joseph's extramarital dalliances or perhaps the abuse that occurred when she pleaded with him to be true to their marriage vows and choose to remain monogamous? Both of those items would be hard on someone who had been commanded by an angel with a drawn sword to "go forth and polygamate the earth".
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Bret Ripley
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Bret Ripley »

moksha wrote:... "go forth and polygamate the earth".
Across the nation
Prophetic proclamation
Polygamation

I have a question
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by I have a question »

mikegriffith1 wrote:Most people who knew Joseph Smith said he was a kind and generous person.

He was so kind and generous he gave his adopted daughters a husband.
Last edited by I have a question on Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')

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moksha
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by moksha »

Bret Ripley wrote:Across the nation
Prophetic proclamation
Polygamation

There's an apologetic generation
With a new explanation
Prophet in motion
Prophet in motion
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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Bret Ripley
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by Bret Ripley »

moksha wrote:There's an apologetic generation
With a new explanation
Prophet in motion
Prophet in motion

Image

candygal
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Re: Did Joseph physically abuse Emma?

Post by candygal »

Having suffered much emotional abuse (relationship after my husband died) I know that I would rather have been slapped around a bit. It is a horrible thing and hard to erase. Emotional abuse was rather Emma's middle name when it came to polygamy and the way it was done. . . I don't condone her anger nor do I blame her. She is a humane being. . . betrayed.

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