Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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Markk
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Markk »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:To summarize Markk’s super deep gnosticism... Everyone is the same, we’re all right and wrong, he’s got it figured out, and therefore he’s justified for finding his moral outrage not with a Christian Identity #DezNat poster who believes Jews are literal demons and should be exterminated, but with the people who take umbrage with it because we bicker about Mormonism on a Mormonism discussion board. Oh, and sometimes we cuss, so we’re just as hateful as Smokey.

- Doc

LOL...where did I say everyone is the same? right or wrong I hope I am not the same as you. What I wrote is that we are all hypocrites by nature, but I understand you may somehow think you are not, I really do get that.

What is funny is that I am simply having a discussion, and you, and others, are the one's butt hurt and bent out of shape. And [a huge chuckle] if you really believe that "we just bicker" about Mormonism, I simply have to laugh. I bicker with my wife, I certainly don't call her an asshole and much worse, and tell how wrong she is about who she is.

You are clearly as hateful as Smokey, maybe worse...LOL read your posts...is your hate as extreme in regards to violence...certainly not, but if you think you are some kind of love child with a pleasant personality then LOL...go back and read some of your posts.

This should be your theme song...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RtJ4hy-GrM


An by the way, I am here you can talk with me directly.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

That’s weird. It’s like Markk doesn’t appreciate it when someone tells the board who Markk is, what he thinks, and how he feels about any given topic.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.

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Res Ipsa
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Res Ipsa »

Markk wrote:RI...wrong, my comparison was hate against Mormon's, Christians, Muslim's...and DCP...etc...and it that context as you correctly agreed with hate is the same. I compared genocides of real people that is happening today to ten's of thousands of people with Kish. Is it worse hating Jews than it is hating Christians, when Christian's are being pushed out of their countries and murdered? No...the hate is the same RI.

If you really want to whittle it down to Paul's form of hate does not induce violence, that is a staw-man. What we do here is encourage folks to hate Mormonism, and the by product of that is people read it, I believe in ignorance and in turn hate Mormons, which is not good IMO.

Your analysis is just as I asserted towards the beginnings of the thread, a "justified brand of hate, rated on a curve ." In other words...my hating Y is okay in that it is not as bad as hating Z.


Markk, you continue your original mistake. You are confusing the nature of the conduct that you label as “hate” with the target of that conduct. When I tell you that I would push back on Smokey’s conduct regardless of the target, I am not agreeing with you that all conduct that could be labeled as hate is the same. You consistently avoid talking about the actual conduct and focus solely on the label because you can’t explain why we should treat Smokey’s conduct the same way we treat Shulem’s. I can demonstrate how Smokey’s conduct leads to genocides. Read what the mass murderer of Jews in New Zealand wrote. Read what Hitler and other Nazi leaders said. Smokey is doing the same thing.

Now, find me examples of Shulem’s conduct resulting in Boko Haram murdering Christians or the Egyptian government persecuting Copts. What you keep claiming as Christian genocide is a grab bag of different situations involving very different groups. The murder of Christians in Africa by the terrorist group Boko Haram differs from the Christians who fled Iraq after the fall of Saddam, which differs from the longer term migration of Christian Arabs to the US and other countries, etc. In many cases, the persecution of Christians is inextricably intertwined with ethnic, tribal, national or social conflicts that go back centuries. And none of it has to do with stuff people post here — other than the fact that you can slap the same label on it.

Please don’t project your reasons for participating on this board onto me. I don’t hate Mormons. I don’t want to encourage anyone to hate Mormons, let alone encourage people to shoot up LDS Sunday school. I don’t even hate Mormonism, although I hate the effect it has on many people’s lives. I’m not really much of a hater, but if I compiled a list of things to hate, I think the LDS Church would be way down the list if it even made the list. And “Mormons” wouldn’t be on the list at all.

If you want to make the case that my postings in response to Smokey is hypocritical, you’re going to have to show at a minimum how my actual conduct is inconsistent with things I have said or other things I have done. Hiding behind labels doesn’t cut it.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951

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canpakes
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by canpakes »

Markk wrote:RI...wrong, my comparison was hate against Mormon's, Christians, Muslim's...and DCP...etc...and it that context as you correctly agreed with hate is the same. I compared genocides of real people that is happening today to ten's of thousands of people with Kish. Is it worse hating Jews than it is hating Christians, when Christian's are being pushed out of their countries and murdered? No...the hate is the same RI.

One of the problems with your argument here is that you’ve chosen to define actions as the same as an emotion. This has been pointed out to you numerous times by numerous folks here, but whenever that happens, you run back to hiding behind your assertion of “all hate is the same”. Still, both your conflation between actions and an emotion, and your claim about all hate being the same, remain incorrect.

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canpakes
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by canpakes »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Markk wrote:What we do here is encourage folks to hate Mormonism,

Please don’t project your reasons for participating on this board onto me. I don’t hate Mormons. I don’t want to encourage anyone to hate Mormons, let alone encourage people to shoot up LDS Sunday school.

This is one of Markk’s stranger claims, especially given the contributions of so many participants on this board who may be ex-Mormon but who also display ample respect for (1) many aspects of the faith, and (2) folks who participate within it still, many of whom are family members.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by huckelberry »

I have some uncertainty in my mind trying to decide what point Mark is trying to make , whats the point?

My theory is that he may be miffed about Kishkumen's comment that images and stories of ancient Christian persecution have been exaggerated. That is a common historical assessment so it is no surprise that kishkumen sees it that way. It does not reflect any sort of hate of Christians. Though Kishkumen has been clear that he does not believe traditional Christian stories and doctrine that is a long long ways away from hate and another long long ways further away from Smokies repeating of ugly and destructive hate material.

I see nothing dangerous or destructive in Kishkumen's comments and he hardly presents as a person cankered by hate or encouraging prejudice against others.

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Markk
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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huckelberry wrote:I have some uncertainty in my mind trying to decide what point Mark is trying to make , whats the point?

My theory is that he may be miffed about Kishkumen's comment that images and stories of ancient Christian persecution have been exaggerated. That is a common historical assessment so it is no surprise that kishkumen sees it that way. It does not reflect any sort of hate of Christians. Though Kishkumen has been clear that he does not believe traditional Christian stories and doctrine that is a long long ways away from hate and another long long ways further away from Smokies repeating of ugly and destructive hate material.

I see nothing dangerous or destructive in Kishkumen's comments and he hardly presents as a person cankered by hate or encouraging prejudice against others.


Kish made a point about the WW2 Holocaust, and Jews in particular. I in turn made a point that there is a massive persecution, nearing genocide, occurring today against Christians in different parts of the world...which begged my question..."What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"

I have two theories on your theory... either you did not read the thread at all, or you are purposely ignoring the context of kish's and mine discussion...I hope it is the former, especially in that genocide against Jews, Christians, Muslims, and others it discussed at length on several pages by RI, Kish, Honor, and myself.

So I will ask you the very same question.... "What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Markk
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Markk »

canpakes wrote: Please don’t project your reasons for participating on this board onto me. I don’t hate Mormons. I don’t want to encourage anyone to hate Mormons, let alone encourage people to shoot up LDS Sunday school.

This is one of Markk’s stranger claims, especially given the contributions of so many participants on this board who may be ex-Mormon but who also display ample respect for (1) many aspects of the faith, and (2) folks who participate within it still, many of whom are family members.[/quote]

LOL...I don't hate Mormons either, but a hate with a deep passion Mormonism, and I wish it would die...but unstable people can read "much" of what is written here and take it to other levels, and take it from Mormonism, to the Mormon. At least try to be a little bit objective.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Markk
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:That’s weird. It’s like Markk doesn’t appreciate it when someone tells the board who Markk is, what he thinks, and how he feels about any given topic.

- Doc


It's funny how folks on the board (any board) most often don't have a chance to really know those we talk to, either in a positive light, or like you and I, in a mostly negative light.

I am 100% curious about how you picture me Doc...who, based on your experiences with me here, might you compare me to? What kind of a person do you think I am...and I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

Based on what I have read in our conversations, and reading yours to others, I kinda picture you as looking like a Lou Midgley, in good shape for a little old guy, who wears short pants with Waldo type stripped socks with boots that appear large (olive oyl-ish), and maybe a head band when you hike, and you often sit in your front yard and spray kids with water that walk on your yard.

I understand I am most likely way off, but again, I am curious how you view me, and again don't hold back. I think this will be very funny and interesting. Anyone else please jump in.
Last edited by Markk on Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Markk
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Markk »

Morley wrote:
I don't know whether hypocritical behavior is nature or nurture. It's not something that concerns me.



Don't you think this is kinda of a key point in our conversation? If you don't know, how can you say I am wrong?

More later
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Markk wrote:
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:That’s weird. It’s like Markk doesn’t appreciate it when someone tells the board who Markk is, what he thinks, and how he feels about any given topic.

- Doc


It's funny how folks on the board (any board) most often don't have a chance to really know those we talk to, either in a positive light, or like you and I, in a mostly negative light.

I am 100% curious about how you picture me Doc...who, based on your experiences with me here, might you compare me to? What kind of a person do you think I am...and I promise you won't hurt my feelings.

Based on what I have read in our conversations, and reading yours to others, I kinda picture you as looking like a Lou Midgley, in good shape for a little old guy, who wears short pants with Waldo type stripped socks with boots that appear large (olive oyl-ish), and maybe a head band when you hike, and you often sit in your front yard and spray kids with water that walk on your yard.

I understand I am most likely way off, but again, I am curious how you view me, and again don't hold back. I think this will be very funny and interesting. Anyone else please jump in.


I view you in context to your self-descriptions, the work you've told us about, and the things that you've posted here. I don't really have a mental picture of you, though. In fact, I don't think about you at all until you post.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by huckelberry »

Markk wrote:
huckelberry wrote:I have some uncertainty in my mind trying to decide what point Mark is trying to make , whats the point?

My theory is that he may be miffed about Kishkumen's comment that images and stories of ancient Christian persecution have been exaggerated. That is a common historical assessment so it is no surprise that kishkumen sees it that way. It does not reflect any sort of hate of Christians. Though Kishkumen has been clear that he does not believe traditional Christian stories and doctrine that is a long long ways away from hate and another long long ways further away from Smokies repeating of ugly and destructive hate material.

I see nothing dangerous or destructive in Kishkumen's comments and he hardly presents as a person cankered by hate or encouraging prejudice against others.


Kish made a point about the WW2 Holocaust, and Jews in particular. I in turn made a point that there is a massive persecution, nearing genocide, occurring today against Christians in different parts of the world...which begged my question..."What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"

I have two theories on your theory... either you did not read the thread at all, or you are purposely ignoring the context of kish's and mine discussion...I hope it is the former, especially in that genocide against Jews, Christians, Muslims, and others it discussed at length on several pages by RI, Kish, Honor, and myself.

So I will ask you the very same question.... "What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"


If one is considering the same kind of hate for each than hate for each of those categories would be the same. I have no idea why this is a puzzle.

I accept your determination that my theory of the subject matter of this thread was wrong. It was a bit of a guess.

////
I guess I should add that I have read most of this thread, perhaps skipping some things in the last third of it.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Lemmie »

huckelberry wrote:I have some uncertainty in my mind trying to decide what point Mark is trying to make , whats the point?

My theory is that he may be miffed about Kishkumen's comment that images and stories of ancient Christian persecution have been exaggerated. That is a common historical assessment so it is no surprise that kishkumen sees it that way. It does not reflect any sort of hate of Christians. Though Kishkumen has been clear that he does not believe traditional Christian stories and doctrine that is a long long ways away from hate and another long long ways further away from Smokies repeating of ugly and destructive hate material.

I see nothing dangerous or destructive in Kishkumen's comments and he hardly presents as a person cankered by hate or encouraging prejudice against others.

Markk wrote:Kish made a point about the WW2 Holocaust, and Jews in particular. I in turn made a point that there is a massive persecution, nearing genocide, occurring today against Christians in different parts of the world...which begged my question..."What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"

I have two theories on your theory... either you did not read the thread at all, or you are purposely ignoring the context of kish's and mine discussion...I hope it is the former, especially in that genocide against Jews, Christians, Muslims, and others it discussed at length on several pages by RI, Kish, Honor, and myself.

So I will ask you the very same question.... "What is worse...hating Jews, Christians, Blacks, Mormons, Arabs, Slav's...etc?"

huckelberry wrote:If one is considering the same kind of hate for each than hate for each of those categories would be the same. I have no idea why this is a puzzle.

I accept your determination that my theory of the subject matter of this thread was wrong. It was a bit of a guess.

////
I guess I should add that I have read most of this thread, perhaps skipping some things in the last third of it.


No, huckelberry, you have no need to accept his determination, markk has erroneously summed up the discussion numerous times in this thread. Kishkumen, morley, and I, among others, have all called him on the dishonesty of this approach but he continues.

For him to now suggest that you disagree with his fake re-write because "you did not read the thread at all," or are "purposely ignoring" something is disingenuous and dishonest.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Huck,

Let me echo Lemmie’s point. Markk is grossly misrepresenting the thread, people’s positions, and is so entrenched in his view he refuses to acknowledge what people are saying and instead just repeats himself ad nauseam. It’s one of the more dishonest moments I’ve witnessed on MormonDiscussions.com, and that’s saying a lot.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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Markk wrote:You are clearly as hateful as Smokey, maybe worse...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh boy. Well, the block is on for this d__a__. I used to think Markk had some smarts but he sure has proved me wrong. :wink:
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Morley »

Markk wrote:
Morley wrote:I don't know whether hypocritical behavior is nature or nurture. It's not something that concerns me.

Don't you think this is kinda of a key point in our conversation? If you don't know, how can you say I am wrong?

More later

My sincere apologies to all for prolonging this farce. In spite of everything, I thought we were all discussing things in good faith.

I should follow this philosophy:

On another thread, Simon Southerton wrote:I'm sorry. I don't debate with fundamentalists on any topic.

I'm out of here.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by canpakes »

Markk wrote:LOL...I don't hate Mormons either, but a hate with a deep passion Mormonism, and I wish it would die...but unstable people can read "much" of what is written here and take it to other levels, and take it from Mormonism, to the Mormon. At least try to be a little bit objective.

Thank you for proving yourself wrong once again, and for illustrating why all hate is not the same.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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Morley wrote:I'm out of here.

That is a cop out Morley...you have backed yourself into a corner, which we all do at times; and which lends to my assertion what we do when we straddle the line of our positions.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

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canpakes wrote:Thank you for proving yourself wrong once again, and for illustrating why all hate is not the same.


And once again you have refused to discuss or accept the context I wrote that...and the definition of hate.
Don't take life so seriously in that " sooner or later we are just old men in funny clothes" "Tom 'T-Bone' Wolk"

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by Lemmie »

Morley wrote:...My sincere apologies to all for prolonging this farce. In spite of everything, I thought we were all discussing things in good faith.

I should follow this philosophy:

On another thread, Simon Southerton wrote:I'm sorry. I don't debate with fundamentalists on any topic.

I'm out of here.

Markk wrote:That is a cop out Morley...you have backed yourself into a corner, which we all do at times; and which lends to my assertion what we do when we straddle the line of our positions.

No, Morley did not back himself into a corner, you truncated his post, which stated a completely different reason. Nor did canpakes refuse anything. Good grief. What nonsense.

Maksutov wrote:
Markk wrote:You are clearly as hateful as Smokey, maybe worse...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh boy. Well, the block is on for this d__a__. I used to think Markk had some smarts but he sure has proved me wrong. :wink:

Same for me, Maks. What an education this thread was. Wow.

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Re: Open Letter to Dr. Shades

Post by canpakes »

Markk wrote:
canpakes wrote:Thank you for proving yourself wrong once again, and for illustrating why all hate is not the same.


And once again you have refused to discuss or accept the context I wrote that...and the definition of hate.

I’ve answered your question pages ago. In contrast, you haven’t been able to explain your own example when you called out Paul.

I’ll ask the same question back to you ... what’s worse: hating a Catholic, or a Mormon, or an atheist, or whatever - if one of them is an abuser, or a murderer, or a cheat? Or just dishonest? Or not?

All hate is not the same. The existence of ‘context’ both in source and action is exactly what creates the difference. You treat that as a hedge to hide behind it as if it means something to you, then act as if it doesn’t exist for the situation that unfolded here, and when you pose your ‘question’.

What’s worse? How will you know, and what will you base it on?

Get to that first, then stop ignoring both your own example and the significant issue of board rules being trashed by the poster in question before pitching your faulty question again.

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