Heavenly Father has a Penis & Heavenly Mother has a Vagina.

[Shulem]

Father in Heaven loves to make babies with his Heavenly Wives.

How many wives can dance on the head of a pin?

[Shulem]

Mary.

[Res Ipsa]

But does Jesus still want me for a Sunbeam?

[Shulem]

Who is taller, Heavenly Father or his Son Jesus Christ?

Are their glorified penises exactly the same size or is one larger than the other? I think this is an important point but Mormons avoid this at all cost. It's significant to think that Heavenly Father has a larger penis than his Son. It means that heavenly penis size among the gods matters. But what if Jesus's penis is bigger than his Father, what then?

Also, can we assume that Heavenly Father is taller than Heavenly Mother?

These are important questions. They really are! Don't boot this down to the telestial board, Shades. These are legitimate Mormon resurrection questions that deserve appropriate attention.

[cwald]

Are their glorified penises exactly the same size or is one larger than the other? ... But what if Jesus's penis is bigger than his Father, what then?

This happens.

[Gadianton]

Shulem,

Your question is highly relevant and underscores a big problem with Mormon theology. Another way to express the same basic issue is the doctrine that God the Father was a savior on his planet. You can see the problem ten miles away. Jesus is less than the father, a little, but once he becomes a full God, then in a way, he's greater than the Father, and so (I think?) it was Brigham who revealed that the Father was no exalted garbage man, but himself a savior on his planet. But that only helps a little. In your analogy, what if the size difference is very small but yet real? Similarly, out there somewhere is a God who was the savior of his world, but whose own Father in heaven (while this God was in mortality) was also the savior of his own world. BUT -- what if your God the Father's father was a garbage man? Doesn't that mean that this other God (not to mention Jesus) is a little superior? And the people who live on that planet then are just a little more important than we are? Similarly, it was taught that our world is the most righteous and the most wicked out of all the other worlds our GTF created -- they don't even have their own Jesus! How envious they must be of us?

And so while Mormonism ignorantly claims to cast the creeds and scholasticism aside, we can see how Mormonism is maddened, without being enlightened, by the ontological argument. If it's possible to imagine a being greater in any attribute (such as in the way you suggest) then this being must be God. Mormons are in an impossible fork. If they say your question doesn't matter, then they must explain why so much care has been taken to ensure our God and Jesus are the most important of all the Gods and Jesuses out there.

[Dantana]

Another minor head scratch is that exalted, flesh and bone bodies are conceiving, gestating and birthing spirit baby bodies. So, maybe exalted flesh and bone penises don't have dimensional requirements as spirit baby body semen delivery devises. And therefore aren't thought of as much as a benchmark of importance.

[Doctor Scratch]

Shulem,

Your question is highly relevant and underscores a big problem with Mormon theology. Another way to express the same basic issue is the doctrine that God the Father was a savior on his planet. You can see the problem ten miles away. Jesus is less than the father, a little, but once he becomes a full God, then in a way, he's greater than the Father, and so (I think?) it was Brigham who revealed that the Father was no exalted garbage man, but himself a savior on his planet. But that only helps a little. In your analogy, what if the size difference is very small but yet real? Similarly, out there somewhere is a God who was the savior of his world, but whose own Father in heaven (while this God was in mortality) was also the savior of his own world. BUT -- what if your God the Father's father was a garbage man? Doesn't that mean that this other God (not to mention Jesus) is a little superior? And the people who live on that planet then are just a little more important than we are? Similarly, it was taught that our world is the most righteous and the most wicked out of all the other worlds our GTF created -- they don't even have their own Jesus! How envious they must be of us?

And so while Mormonism ignorantly claims to cast the creeds and scholasticism aside, we can see how Mormonism is maddened, without being enlightened, by the ontological argument. If it's possible to imagine a being greater in any attribute (such as in the way you suggest) then this being must be God. Mormons are in an impossible fork. If they say your question doesn't matter, then they must explain why so much care has been taken to ensure our God and Jesus are the most important of all the Gods and Jesuses out there.

Lots of good points here. You know, I think that Elder McConkie deserves some credit for actually trying to provide some answers to the complicated ins and outs of LDS theology. Let's face it: Mormon theology is really sort of a hot mess. It just doesn't provide answers to questions like this. The Brethren tend to not ever say anything, and the Mopologists are no better. (Can you imagine if Gemli "flipped the script" and made that whole "scientism" discussion about the epistemological value of Mormonism? How "enriched" are you as a person--intellectually speaking--if you find out about Nephites? Do DCP and Midgley want to openly defend praying as a good means for making choices about their financial investments? Or--for that matter--their editorial decisions on Mormon Interpreter?)

But Dr. Robbers is (as always) right on the button with this post. There is a competitiveness and politics woven into the LDS teachings on exaltation. Of course, those in the CK will be the Upper Class, and I guess the lower kingdoms are the "proletariat." But are all the Gods in the CK somehow on an even playing field? How does that work, exactly? If you make yourself the "Savior" of a world, does that give you a leg up vis-à-vis the other gods? Do you just sort of have this universe that you lord over, but then you come back and hang out with the other Gods? Like, being "God" with a capital "G" is basically your job, but then you come back home at the end of the day and hang out with your family? (Who would also be Gods, btw--at least the righteous ones. Or is it the case that your "family" is really just some kind of divine projection, or an "idealized" version of your own family and friends? Family and friends as they would be if you were a God?)

I've also always wondered about the doctrine concerning the "perfected" body. What if somebody dies as a child? Do they then become a "God"-child? Someone with God-level powers, but still with the body of a child? It's times like these when you start to really feel that this is truly a "man-made" thing. The notion of a "perfected body" seems like Ponce de Leon "Fountain of Youth" stuff--like it is the obvious theology that an aging human would dream up. A thoughtful and truly God-inspired theology would give us greater insight into questions like these. Whatever the case, it's profoundly disappointing that there is nowhere to go for answers to these sorts of questions.

[Amore]

One aspect I like - to some degree - about Catholicism and Mormonism, is the honor of Feminine figures & acknowledgement of a Heavenly Mother. I don’t consider myself feminist, but if it’s true that “as above, so below” and if God is (in part) Creative Intelligence - then that involves BOTH masculine and feminine principles. Yin and Yang. At first, it was taught that the dove, “Sophia” represented the Holy Ghost and was the feminine aspect of Deity.

What’s interesting is how consciousness has evolved. For a long time and for many ancient cultures - the Sun was God. The Sun was the giver of life, etc. But so many superstitions arose - trying often in vain to sacrifice or otherwise appease the Sun God - frequently to no avail. So, eventually, it was imagined that the Son of God (Sun of God?) would kind of play mediator.

You’d think that in this day & age, human sacrifice and scapegoating would be more commonly dismissed as absurd or evil, but it isn’t. And you’d think with all the advances in learning, that interpreting symbolic principles would be more common than literal interpretations. Religion in this sense, is a stumbling block by preaching literal dogma rather than what symbols represent.

[Shulem]

Gadianton,

Thank you for the discussion in this matter. I hear exactly what you're saying. It's hard to imagine Mormons or Brigham Young for that matter speculating that Elohim was only a garbage man during his earthly incarnation. It's hard to imagine any Mormon admitting that Elohim was also a sinner as he worked out his own salvation with fear and trembling. Mormons are just not capable of putting Elohim in that kind of box so they wrap it up with pretty paper, put ribbons on it, and fasten a bow on top. Problem solved. But the idea of Elohim being a sinless Savior for his Father is mathematically against all odds -- one in billions and billions. It's just not believable. That means Elohim had to be a sinner and must have done all kinds of nasty things to include beating his own wife from time to time. I don't know?

Anyway, today, in heaven, Elohim and Jehovah may stand side by side and give a big hug for everyone to see, including Brigham Young. I can imagine Brigham wondering which of the two has the larger penis. That just seems like something he'd entertain. They are not going to be the exact same size and shape. According to the Book of Mormons the resurrection takes everything into account so penis shape and size is proportionate to the rest of the body. Does the Father have a smaller one? Perhaps he does. Oh, I know this all seems rather silly. It's Mormon stuff, mind you, and is a paradox in so many ways.

[Shulem]

Another minor head scratch is that exalted, flesh and bone bodies are conceiving, gestating and birthing spirit baby bodies. So, maybe exalted flesh and bone penises don't have dimensional requirements as spirit baby body semen delivery devises. And therefore aren't thought of as much as a benchmark of importance.

Resurrected Jesus came down and ate fish like any man would. Brigham Young said God came down and had sex with Mary as any man would. Bottom line, you have a 6 foot man coming down and doing things. The church teaches that Christ was the Son of God in the literal sense. Mary got pregnant because the Father went into her. That's Mormonism as taught by prophet Brigham.

A glorified resurrected body doesn't need clothes. Maybe it's clothed with light or energy and therefore it looks like clothes but it's really just light. Pure speculation. But the light or the clothes is still covering the body and thereunder is sheer nakedness -- skin. If you put Elohim and Jehovah side by side in their naked state there is either going to be differences or there is not. Either their penises are the same or they are not. It they are not the exact same dimension then that means one is larger than the other -- longer, fatter? The question is, which one? It's a valid point. Who has the larger penis, the Father or the Son? How would the Father feel about saying, "Son, your penis is larger than mine but I'm still in charge". Imagine him saying that before all the angles! How embarrassing!

See, it's all so strange. It's all so ridiculous too but we are dealing with Mormonism and the literal resurrection and all that goes with it.

[Shulem]

Doctor Scratch,

Thank you for weighing in and adding dimension to the subject and for pointing out that the church doesn't give answers let alone claim to have them. The best the church will say to an individual is to not worry about things that don't effect one's immediate salvation here on earth. Feel free to pray about it but don't expect an answer in this life.

You know we laugh about the TK smoothie and so also I'll bet faithful members laugh about it too. But when you really think about it, in all seriousness, it's not a laughing matter for the faithful saint who actually believes in that garbage. It's castration of the human body which is supposed to be in the image of God. And yet, even faithful Mormons who look down on us as apostates will laugh at such things and avoid all the other questions and concerns that surround it. Hence, the point of this thread.

[Shulem]

One aspect I like - to some degree - about Catholicism and Mormonism, is the honor of Feminine figures & acknowledgement of a Heavenly Mother. I don’t consider myself feminist, but if it’s true that “as above, so below” and if God is (in part) Creative Intelligence - then that involves BOTH masculine and feminine principles. Yin and Yang. At first, it was taught that the dove, “Sophia” represented the Holy Ghost and was the feminine aspect of Deity.

I don't doubt that any of us have incarnated multiple times on this earth or on other worlds as both male and female in order to obtain the full experience of being both. Unlike Mormon theology which teaches gender is a permanent characteristic I happen to think we are genderless prior to incarnating and will be afterward. Gender is simply a way to experience the yin and yang as you say.

I wonder if I've been a girl more times than a boy? (I prefer being a boy but maybe that's because I'm a boy this time around)

[Maksutov]

Do resurrected women have their hymens restored? What about men's hair and circumcised foreskins? Truly, these are the mysteries of the Plan of Salvation.

[Shulem]

Do resurrected women have their hymens restored? What about men's hair and circumcised foreskins? Truly, these are the mysteries of the Plan of Salvation.

You bring up a good point, one which I've never considered before. What about the foreskin? The natural order of things is to have a foreskin. Every male is born with a foreskin. It's a natural part of the body. But religion (being creepy) ordered them cut off to appease a god's pathetic desires and to maintain control over the masses. Isn't it really about Jehovah controlling men via his priests? Yes, I do think so.

So, let every faithful Mormon man ask themself if they expect to be resurrected with their foreskin returned in good order and good supply to match their member.

What do the prophets have to say on this account? Anything? How hardly.

[Shulem]

The thread got booted down to the telestial for no apparent reason. What a shame.

[cwald]

The thread got booted down to the telestial for no apparent reason. What a shame.

Release the Kraken!

[Shulem]

Release the Kraken!

The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame and all males born on even days will have their foreskins restored but those born on odd days will not have their foreskins restored like unto it was before they were cut.

And now, my son, this is the restoration of which has been spoken by the mouths of the prophets shall surely come to pass but your penis will ever remain cut in shame and your foreskin lost forever because you were born on an odd day unlike your more righteous brother.

Refreshments, anyone?

[Shulem]

"My husband Elohim is off making another world. I'll disrobe if you'll ____ me"

[SPG]

"My husband Elohim is off making another world. I'll disrobe if you'll ____ me"

I'm reminded that people have lost their to ability to separate church and state. There things we believe, which can be wild and crazy. Then there things we all agree on for the sake of peace and order.

But freedom comes from the church. However we do church, it makes us want to be better people.

When State tries to make us better people, you get the situations like the Nazi, communist China, Spanish Inquisition, etc.

In order to be free, we much choose to be good. If we are good because we fear going to prison, are we really good, are we really free?

Many people like to pick on the threats of damnation from the church. Like, "look how oppressive the church is." But you are actually free to rebel. If you offend the Mormon ideals, the government doesn't come after your home or your kids.

As people slowly kill the churches, in the name of truth, they are killing freedom. Because you cannot have a free nation without a space to have free crazy thoughts. Mormons, basically, are good people. I would not care if missionaries told me that Joseph Smith rode unicorns then turned them in to beautiful wives when he wanted to get laid. This space of crazy thought is precious to our nation.

There is nothing "wrong" with Mormonism that isn't wrong with anything else. When the consciousness considered the ideals of Mormonism, you get good people.

All this penis envy about the gods is just silly. They are trying to caught up to me. But what does it serve to mock the people's ideals, even if they were once your own?

When America loses it's religion, it will probably lose it's freedom as well.

[Amore]

Hi SPG! Good to see a post from you! Hope to hear more from you. I hope you’re doing well, my friend.


Hi Shulem, I hope you’re doing well too. You have a good heart, my friend. :)