MAGA kids are Jerks

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Res Ipsa
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:I have to every damn thing around here. Knock yourself out.

One link is intentionally intended to lead specifically to the next in terms of rules, restrictions and process. If you or anyone else wants to read through the material, be my guest, I'm not quoting it all here.

https://www.archives.gov/personnel-reco ... ns-privacy

https://www.archives.gov/personnel-reco ... ess-public

https://www.archives.gov/personnel-reco ... /foia-info

I don't wish to discuss the FOIA further. I had enough of it some years back and it's not on my list of favorite topics.

You said something about the shut down interfering with accessibility. It's possible that the records were sent for and received during or after another one of Mr. Phillips previous protests and someone already had them.

This isn't his first rodeo.


I didn’t ask for a FOIA tutorial. The in and outs of FOIA have literally nothing to do with my point, which I’ve clarified at least twice. I don’t know or care how the records were obtained. If I though it was important to my comment, I’d have tried to figure it out.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
Kevin’s statement is also disgusting. But how is that “destroying” the young man? As opposed to trawling through whatever records can be found to try and destroy him as a person. The equivalent action would be, as I said, rummaging through the kids’ school records looking for documentation of discipline and publishing anything negative about them.


Student records including disciplinary records are covered under FERPA. Private/confidential/lock and key, highly restricted access.

Compare FERPA to FOIA regarding records accessibility and release. FOIA provides for the release of specific veteran records. It's not a violation to request and release Phillip's service records so long as they meet criteria.

Like I stated in the above post, it's very likely that Phillip's records were already in hand prior to the current event.


I don’t know why you are fixated on this. You get analogies, right?
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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Res Ipsa wrote:
I didn’t ask for a FOIA tutorial. The in and outs of FOIA have literally nothing to do with my point, which I’ve clarified at least twice. I don’t know or care how the records were obtained. If I though it was important to my comment, I’d have tried to figure it out.


You got a tutorial anyway. My pleasure to provide.
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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Here's the portion of your post that resulted in the FOIA tutorial.

Actually, I didn’t recall the rules for obtaining someone’s DD214. I have no idea how Doc or Doc’s source obtained it. It does seem awfully quick since Monday for a FOIA response. Not sure if the shutdown is relevant.


The process and accessibility policies are located in the "tutorial". It seems quick since Monday for a FOIA response because it probably IS too quick to process the request including delivery.

And like I said probably twice already, someone probably already had them in hand due to Phillip's past activity.
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Jersey Girl »

Res Ipsa wrote:
I don’t know why you are fixated on this. You get analogies, right?


I'm responding directly to what you yourself have stated. You called into queston the handling of military records and student records. You get comparisons right?
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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with regard to Ajax, I thought your comments went beyond the rules, and asserted a broader moral position. Are you saying that your only objection to referring to Ajax’s past statements was that they violated the rules. Or was there more to it?


No, I wasn't asserting a broader moral position. I repeatedly referred to previous incidents on this board that were handled by removing transferred posts from other forums and a couple or more photographic images nabbed from elsewhere--those images are covered under the rules.

If you want any more information regarding the posts, it's going to have to be sent via PM's.
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Res Ipsa »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Res Ipsa wrote:
I don’t know why you are fixated on this. You get analogies, right?


I'm responding directly to what you yourself have stated. You called into queston the handling of military records and student records. You get comparisons right?


Please don’t revise history. I didn’t call the handling of records into question. I analogised trawling through Phillips’ records to look for dirt to trawling through the kid’s school records to look for dirt. You got hung up on the differences in availability of the records, which has nothing to do with the analogy. I even spelled out that my objection was to the trawling, not the availability.

To be clear, in the context of the encounter between Phillips and the kids, I would find rummaging through the kids’ school records to look for dirt to be just as appalling as what is being done to Phillips. And the differences in public availability of the records has zero to do with my opinion.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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Jersey Girl wrote:
with regard to Ajax, I thought your comments went beyond the rules, and asserted a broader moral position. Are you saying that your only objection to referring to Ajax’s past statements was that they violated the rules. Or was there more to it?


No, I wasn't asserting a broader moral position. I repeatedly referred to previous incidents on this board that were handled by removing transferred posts from other forums and a couple or more photographic images nabbed from elsewhere--those images are covered under the rules.

If you want any more information regarding the posts, it's going to have to be sent via PM's.


Oh, I don’t need to see the PM’s, thanks.

I know you started out by appealing to past examples. But I thought that you quite eloquently made a moral and ethical argument against bringing up past statements for the purpose of discrediting Ajax. viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50846&start=21#p1164187

I thought it was a good argument and think it equally applies here. YMMV.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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I'll think about all of that tomorrow. I'm done thinking for today.

:lol:
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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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Jersey Girl wrote:I'll think about all of that tomorrow. I'm done thinking for today.

:lol:


Me too. Goodnight.
​“The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.”

― Hannah Arendt, The Origins of Totalitarianism, 1951

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

I'll remind RI this was the narrative:

Bishop Talbert Swan

@TalbertSwan

Racist little white punks in #MAGA hats spawned from the seeds of white supremacists harassed, mocked, and ridiculed a Native American elder. They were students from Covington Catholic in KY who had just attended the #MarchForLife.#TrumpsAmerica

2,869
4:45 PM - Jan 19, 2019


Celebrities, news outlets, and the Twittersphere claimed Phillips was a Vietnam War veteran. They used that as a cudgel to attack the boys. Phillips himself played around with the wording of his service and claimed to be a 'Recon Ranger' where 'when he returned' he was spit on and called a babykiller. Phillips used his veteran status to gain credibility for his activism, as demonstrated by his award and various statements to the media. This is the current state of his credibility on that matter:

EDITOR'S NOTE: A previous version of this report identified Phillips as a Vietnam War veteran. That has since been found not to be the case.


No one likes a liar whether it's Trump or an activist.

Nathan Phillips' motivations before and after this incident are clear. He waded over to the boys, the kids who were told to stand there and wait for their bus by adults, the kids who were being attacked by black racists, singled out one boy, and began to sing an American Indian Movement song (look up AIM and its history - sheesh), and bang a drum in a kid's face.

Everything about Nathan Phillips, an adult, and that day is garbage. The fact that other adults have defended him, haven't said jack ____ about those black racists, and have urged violence and hate on those kids is total garbage. The Looney Tunes on this board are just manifestations of the political currency we all use now. They're one side, and the Trumpers are the other. Good luck with that.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by EAllusion »

It's fine that we live in a country where a famous victim of racial taunts is rewarded with having his life dissected and napalmed, and those responsible for racial taunts get to exist as conquering heroes in broad swathes of the country. Totally fine. I guess it shouldn't be surprising to me in a country where The Redskins are out there existing, but somehow it is.

Doc -

Why haven't you started a thread every single day about street preachers shouting bigoted things at people? There are groups of street preachers whose shtick is to shout bigoted things at people who literally tour college campuses as a full-time job. There is not a day that it isn't happening, so why aren't you complaining about it? I'm not complaining about it, because it's so universally recognized as bad and so inconsequential that condemning it seems banal and unnecessary. In the case of this story, since having racial epithets yelled at you doesn't justify being bigoted to a Native American like a hit dog, it doesn't seem relevant. But that doesn't seem to apply to you. In fact ,you've repeatedly implied that failure to do so implies support. So why do you support nonstop hate from street preachers every day?

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

I do want to make a note that I did, in fact, go into Hugh Nibley's extensive history of questionable claims about his military service. If you didn't have a problem with that, but you have a problem with my investigation into Nathan Phillips' claims then I'd ask you to ask yourself why that is. I don't really have a problem with guys who are 'stolen valor' types, or embellish their military service. It's more of an eye-roll situation, but I think if they're using their service to gain public credibility then it's probably worth taking a look at. To me, it's akin to, say, an academic claiming education that isn't theirs, or an achievement that they didn't earn in order to gain public support for their ideas or cause.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Nathan Phillips, January 3, 2018

"I'm a Vietnam Vet. I served in Marine Corps 72 to 76. I got discharged May 5, 1976. I got honorable discharge and one of the boxes shows peacetime or, what my box says is that I was **in theater**. I don't talk much about my Vietnam times."


https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2019/01/ ... n-theater/

In his own words.

eta: As to the Looney Tune's statement above, it's a red herring nonsense piece of garbage. The black racist street preachers are directly tied to the topic of the thread and to the incident. One will note he continues to tacitly endorse them through his silence and obfuscation on the matter.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Kevin Graham »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:“Phillips also described coming back to the U.S. as a veteran of the Vietnam era. ‘People called me a baby killer and a hippie girl spit on me.'"
- Doc


The irony here is that Doc is doing everything he is criticizing when this article doesn't quote Phillips saying he "came back" to the USA. He simply said people called him a baby killer, which wasn't uncommon during that period for anyone wearing a uniform in public. But good job searching the dark web for days for any kind of dirt you can find on a native american activist. All for the purpose of victimizing the a little white prick. Nothing racist in that of course.

And it is also unclear how any of this is relevant to what happened last week. As EAllusion stated previously, Phillips could be a child molester and it still wouldn't excuse what happened to him. The real sickness I see is when people like Doc bend over backwards to dig up dirt on someone simply because he doesn't like a little prick being held accountable for his actions. I mean, get a ____ life man. And by get a life I don't mean acting like an internet warrior for truth and justice for everyone else but yourself. Imagine if someone posted all your baggage from your ____ past?
Last edited by Kevin Graham on Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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EAllusion wrote:It's fine that we live in a country where a famous victim of racial taunts is rewarded with having his life dissected and napalmed, and those responsible for racial taunts get to exist as conquering heroes in broad swathes of the country. Totally fine.


No reason to let a wish-washy vet history stop anyone from doing this. It’s OK to attack actual, faithful vets if it’s politically expedient and serves to distract from the actual issue. We have precedent from the top of the MAGA food chain:

He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

If Phillips was a registered child molester I ____ you that this story would've died once it came out.

____ r____ Looney Tunes tripling down on this garbage. Disgusting. One will note that the Looney Tune above still hasn't apologized for wishing violence on a teen. Nutjobs all of them.

eta: I should note the difference between myself and the Looney Tunes above is that if the roles were reversed, and my ideological opposites were the offenders, say, White nationalists insulting a group of minorities, and we had a redneck stolen valor type playing a banjo in the face of a teen, and a bunch of Conservatives were wishing violence on the teens, I'd be right there with everyone denouncing it.

Do I even have to explain what the difference to the Looney Tunes is? Pathetic.

- doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Kevin Graham »

This issue has been overblown and much of it is due to unforeseen circumstance.

What really blows my mind, and I haven't seen anyone discuss this, is that Nick Sandmann looks completely different and much younger in virtually every other photo of him. In the short clip that initially went viral, he looks like a young man with a complete asshole smirk on his face. He could pass for 18-20 years old.

When I saw other images of him I thought they were from years earlier, but they're not. He looks like a 12 year old. And had this been the image everyone had seen:

Image

Instead of this one...

Image

I have to think it would have played out much differently. When I first saw the image my first thought was, "what an asshole." Then when I saw the initial video clip, I thought, "WOW what an asshole."

But the other photos of this kid along with the interview reveals he's just a dumb little kid, and I think the media as well as everyone else who attacked him on twitter would have treated it as such, for the same reasons these little racists in the making didn't become nationwide headline news. They're just dumb kids.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Kevin Graham »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:If Phillips was a registered child molester I ____ you that this story would've died once it came out.

____ r____ Looney Tunes tripling down on this garbage. Disgusting. One will note that the Looney Tune above still hasn't apologized for wishing violence on a teen. Nutjobs all of them.

eta: I should note the difference between myself and the Looney Tunes above is that if the roles were reversed, and my ideological opposites were the offenders, say, White nationalists insulting a group of minorities, and we had a redneck stolen valor type playing a banjo in the face of a teen, and a bunch of Conservatives were wishing violence on the teens, I'd be right there with everyone denouncing it.

Do I even have to explain what the difference to the Looney Tunes is? Pathetic.

- doc


Seriously? You didn't read page 3 from three days ago when I said:

Also unacceptable is expressing righteous indignation at the blithe bigotry displayed by this group through threats of violence or jokes about the punchability of the face of the young man at the center of the event. I was wrong to make a joke about that, and I apologize to anyone who saw it.


Sure you saw it. You responded. But how can you maintain your little agenda if the issue has already been diffused?

So just act like it hasn't been diffused.

I don't think anyone was suggesting an adult punch a teen, but rather one of his school mates beside him. Like I said, in the initial photo he looks like he's potentially a 20 year old, and in others he looks like a 12 year old.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:If Phillips was a registered child molester I ____ you that this story would've died once it came out.

____ r____ Looney Tunes tripling down on this garbage. Disgusting. One will note that the Looney Tune above still hasn't apologized for wishing violence on a teen. Nutjobs all of them.

eta: I should note the difference between myself and the Looney Tunes above is that if the roles were reversed, and my ideological opposites were the offenders, say, White nationalists insulting a group of minorities, and we had a redneck stolen valor type playing a banjo in the face of a teen, and a bunch of Conservatives were wishing violence on the teens, I'd be right there with everyone denouncing it.

Do I even have to explain what the difference to the Looney Tunes is? Pathetic.

- doc

What has been interesting to me is watching elements from both sides try to bring in material outside of the event itself to justify whatever their preferred reaction is.

I’ll stand by my posts on page 1 of this thread because they address the behavior of the moment. My conclusions had nothing to do with the fact of drumming dude being a veteran or not, or whether or not smirk-faced kid was from a Catholic school. I could not care less if either ran a kitten rescue op or cooked for homeless folks. The behavior of that moment leads to my own conclusion, although the attempts to justify that behavior by ‘interested parties’ have been a heck of a sideshow.

Not sure if that wraps me up into that ‘looney lefty’ category because I’m not jumping on the doxxing bandwagon to justify any conclusion, but folks will have their opinions, and I have mine.
Last edited by canpakes on Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MAGA kids are Jerks

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Canpakes,

I don't think you is a Looney Tune. You typically bring a balanced perspective to any discussion, which I know I personally value.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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