What I believe and why

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Nortinski
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What I believe and why

Post by Nortinski »

The ever so entertaining Gazelam asked in the Celestial Forum:

Gazelam wrote:
I hear repeatedly here in this mesage board how wrong the Gospel of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is. What I never hear is where these doubters go to worship and find truth. What alternative faith do these people offer once they have torn down our faith?

Please state, if you have left the church or are planning to leave the church, where you go now or are planning to go.

Also please state doctrinal differences and their replacements, with scriptural refrences if possible.

Thank you

Gazelam


So, since I took an Ambien CR about an hour ago, I'm feeling somewhat delirious and willing to share.

I consider myself to be a theist.

I also think that if I was God and had created something like earth I would be sooo tempted to go down to my little creation in "person" and, knowing full well that I was the God that they prayed to and worshiped, would live among (amongst?) my creations.

I think that the whole concept of Christ being his own Father is some pretty deep s***. I also think that the idea of "eternity" is something our little minds can't quite wrap themselves around. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Once in a blue moon I'll attend a local Presbyterian church. I've also attended a local Baptist church that a friend is the Pastor of. I left the cult in 2002 and about a year later I was baptised in the Baptist church that my friend runs. Mostly just to wash off the stench of the Mormon baptism I had on July 4, 1976. (I'm not kidding)

I think there is enough "evidence" to confirm the existence of a guy named Jesus who claimed to be the son of God.
Was he? I dunno. Like I said, If I were God, I'd certainly check out my creation in person. Anyone who has watched "Bruce Almighty" could certainly see the appeal of the idea.

I've also often referred to myself as a "Christian Realist". I try to live by the gospel of St. John (Lennon). "Love one another". "All you need is love". Same thing.

Although I "believe in the Bible", I'm also very realistic about the stuff in it. Some of it (okay, maybe a lot) is just horse s***. Noah's ark? That's cute. Not true, but cute nonetheless. Adam and Eve? Not so much. Virgin birth? Actually, I could buy that one. I mean, if I was God, I think I'd make my own birth (and conception) into my little world be somewhat miraculous. Wouldn't you?

Gazelam asked us to "...please state doctrinal differences and their replacements".

I'm not going to go there tonight. Suffice it to say, many things I was taught in the cult are just peachy. They are also far from unique in Mormonism. Don't smoke, don't drink? My Baptist minister friend has been saying that for ages. I don't know ANY of my Baptist friends that drink or smoke. Maybe a glass of wine once in a blue moon.

I have no intention of letting my 15 year old daughter date until she's 16. Maybe 21. ;-)

I live the spirit of the "Word of Wisdom" much better than most of the fat bastard "eat-a-giant-pot-roast-every-Sunday-afternoon" Mormons that I know. I'm in pretty good shape for a 38 year old guy. It's called common sense. You don't need a friggin' "revelation" for that.

My main "doctrines" are called "truth" and "karma". I don't steal from people. I think it'll bite me in the ass if I do. Besides, stealing is wrong. I don't do things to others that I wouldn't like them to do to me. All I need is love. If everyone in the world practiced the same beliefs as I do, the world would be a better place. I avoid the "holier than thou" attitude at all costs. I've got no problems with Mormons. But I think Mormonism is deceptive and based on a pack of lies. Take your 10% and donate them to your local soup kitchen instead. It'll do a lot more good. Or, would you rather pay to put Gordon B. Hinckter up in a nice apartment with 24 hour security and limo rides and first class travel around the world? I hope the lying bastard chokes on a chicken bone and dies a painful death. He will if karma has anything to say about it.

I'd be happy (at least for the next hour or so) to answer any direct questions in regards to my religious beliefs that I hold at this point in my life if you have any. I also reserve the right to tell you that "it's none of your damn business" as well.

Nort
The truth is a lot easier to see when you stop assuming you already have it. - Me

Ray A

Re: What I believe and why

Post by Ray A »

Nortinski wrote:I have no intention of letting my 15 year old daughter date until she's 16. Maybe 21. ;-)


How old were you when you started dating?

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Nortinski
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Re: What I believe and why

Post by Nortinski »

Ray A wrote:
Nortinski wrote:I have no intention of letting my 15 year old daughter date until she's 16. Maybe 21. ;-)


How old were you when you started dating?


I didn't have my first "real" date until I was well into my 16th year. I was very shy. Not big on Mormon dances. Or any dances for that matter.

Nort
The truth is a lot easier to see when you stop assuming you already have it. - Me

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Post by OUT OF MY MISERY »

NORT

I did not even have to read your whole post except the KARMA and TRUTH part to know that you had pretty much summed it all up very well.

Thanks
Now we will see if Gazelam gets it but he probably won't.
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........

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Post by Nortinski »

coffeecat wrote:NORT

I did not even have to read your whole post except the KARMA and TRUTH part to know that you had pretty much summed it all up very well.

Thanks
Now we will see if Gazelam gets it but he probably won't.


Gazelam wouldn't "get it" if "it" was a large stick up his butt. He'd just think he was really constipated.

Nort
The truth is a lot easier to see when you stop assuming you already have it. - Me

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Coggins7
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Post by Coggins7 »

Nort made the following hypocritical and contradictory statements:


I've also often referred to myself as a "Christian Realist". I try to live by the gospel of St. John (Lennon). "Love one another". "All you need is love". Same thing.



All I need is love.



I've got no problems with Mormons.


These claims are followed by:

Or, would you rather pay to put Gordon B. Hinckter up in a nice apartment with 24 hour security and limo rides and first class travel around the world? I hope the lying bastard chokes on a chicken bone and dies a painful death. He will if karma has anything to say about it.


Loran:

When will the intellectual and moral hilarity cease. Three bold faced lies followed by a statement which belies any need for this to be pointed out to anyone.

You also have to really love how Nort invokes "the spirit" of the Word of Wisdom to cover what is very clearly his unconcern about its letter. Notice the fat bastard "eat-a-giant-pot-roast-every-Sunday-afternoon" Mormons he knows, and his righteous superiority to them because they eat potroast every Sunday (yeah right, but nevermind) while he pops pills and guzzles.

This would be utterly side splitting if it weren't so pathetic-and oh so typical of the malcontent, dispeptic, bitter rainy day world of so many who have left the church and are now doomed to spend much of their lives seeking to destroy that which is good and ruin the lives of others still in the church by influencing them to leave it.

Satanic, is the word that comes to mind here. These folks want everyone else to by miserable like unto themselves. Interesting how that works, isn't it.


I'd be happy (at least for the next hour or so) to answer any direct questions in regards to my religious beliefs that I hold at this point in my life if you have any. I also reserve the right to tell you that "it's none of your damn business" as well.


Loran:

And what, praytell, is there about any of these frivolours banalities you think anyone would be interested in knowing? Depthe? Profundity? Sincerety? Nope. What then?

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Post by Nortinski »

Coggins7 wrote:Nort made the following hypocritical and contradictory statements:


I've also often referred to myself as a "Christian Realist". I try to live by the gospel of St. John (Lennon). "Love one another". "All you need is love". Same thing.



All I need is love.



I've got no problems with Mormons.


These claims are followed by:

Or, would you rather pay to put Gordon B. Hinckter up in a nice apartment with 24 hour security and limo rides and first class travel around the world? I hope the lying bastard chokes on a chicken bone and dies a painful death. He will if karma has anything to say about it.



Sorry sport, my feelings of love go right out the window when that douchebag Gordy Hinckley steps into the picture. I hope he gets the same treatment that David Koresh got. He deserves no less.


Coggins7 wrote:
You also have to really love how Nort invokes "the spirit" of the Word of Wisdom to cover what is very clearly his unconcern about its letter. Notice the fat bastard "eat-a-giant-pot-roast-every-Sunday-afternoon" Mormons he knows, and his righteous superiority to them because they eat potroast every Sunday (yeah right, but nevermind) while he pops pills and guzzles.




You're a riot. Now I'm "popping pills" and guzzling? I may drink a little here and there but not much because, quite frankly, I can't stand beer or wine. Hard liquor is only good if it's mixed with something less nasty and I'm not the best bartender in the world. As for pills? I've got some Ambien CR that help me sleep at night. I should send some to the Hinckster cuz I can't imagine he sleeps at night.

Nort
The truth is a lot easier to see when you stop assuming you already have it. - Me

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Post by OUT OF MY MISERY »

NORT

They always resort to those type of things, there is nothing else left for them.

It is kinda like calling a married women a slut.

Rolls right off of us because we really don't give a f*** anymore what anyone calls us.

You stop all that drinking now, I'll do it for you.
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........

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Post by Coggins7 »

Well, Nort admits to not being able to sleep at night (and this is understandable), while Coffeecat admits to being a slut and is willing to drink heavily. These two really need to get together, as they then might end up being so busy that they just won't have any time or energy left to curse and spit venom and Gorden B. Hinckly for trying to save the sould of his brothers and sisters and do good in the world.

Loran

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Post by Coggins7 »

Oh, and by the way Slim, this is the Terrestral room isn't it? Now, the good, decent, just people of the earth are supposed to be in the Terrestrial Kingdom, so, how then is there so much flaming, profanity, hatred, and vitriol allowed here in the TK?

Just wait, and this will turn up (actually, it already has), in the Celestial Forum. the reason, you see, is because this is the nature of the beast you're dealing with in the recovering Mormon, ex-Mormon world of foam and froth and this is the belly of it.

Loran

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Nortinski
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Post by Nortinski »

Coggins7 wrote:Well, Nort admits to not being able to sleep at night (and this is understandable)


Sorry sport, I hate to burst your bubble but my difficulty in sleeping has nothing to do with guilt and everything to do with being a bail bondsman for 11 years and waking up about 15-20 times every single night, 7 days a week getting people out of jail. My favorite customer over the years was the Mormon missionary that fondled a teenage girl at a members house. I had a lengthy conversation with him about the cult.

Nort
The truth is a lot easier to see when you stop assuming you already have it. - Me

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Norts Faith

Post by Gazelam »

Nort,

Thanks a lot for making this post. Its nice to get an Honest post from you instead of the tounge in cheek anger you express a lot of the time.

Commenting on a few key lines from your "testimony" or "confession of faith", whichever title you would like to apply:

God in person vs Faith: What do you see would be accomplished if God himself were to appear in his Glory? This gets into the area of the purpose of life and personal responsibility. How do you view the idea of Faith as a tool? What is the purpose of the principle of Faith in your view? Also, how do you think our relationship to God would change if our belief grew or escalated from a faith base to a pure knowledge base? Which base would you rather be judged under? I personally feel that I have been in the presence of God when I received my witness of the Holy Ghost, which went far beyond a simple burning in the bosum. I also feel that it is that knowledge that I will now be judged by. I got what I asked for, and where much is given much is required.


Christ is his own father: What do you base this belief on? In all accounts that I have read, Christ declared himself the Fathers Son. Their oneness is explained in the intercessory prayer. Pleae expand further on this view if you would.

No belief in Noah or Adam and Eve: I hear the Noah arguement quite frequently. I contend against this with the testimony of all the different cultures around the world that have a history of the flood story as a part of their culture, despite being separated by vast gulfs. Also the Flood was a global flood that was the baptism of the earth. What is your view of the creation if you do not have a belief in Adam and Eve?

Baptist and Presbyterian: What do you find in these beliefs that draws you in as compared to your old beliefs?

15 yr old daughters dateing: I am with you on this one. My dughter is 2 1/2, I dread sending her out in the future. There is an excellent talk given by Jeffrey R Holland on the Law of Chastity. I don't think theres anything overly "Mormony" that you would disagree with in it. http://www.familylifeeducation.org/gilliland/procgroup/Souls.htm This is one of my all time favorite talks, and I get a lot out of it when I read it or listen to it.


Avoid Holier than thou: This is a huge issue. I think if more people on boards like these would adhere to that, there would be a higher level of discussion than the juvenile high-jinks we see going on. I've gotten a little atitude at times, and I've gone back and erased some of my posts. Maybe its a maturity thing, I don't know. But pride can destroy a lot. it brought down Lucifer from his exalted position, and then he followed that up by convinceing 1/3 to follow with him.


Thanks again for your post,

Gazelam
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato

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