Thank you for sharpening my recollection re: Hinckley’s talk. That WAS my issue at the time—his lack of clear opposition to preemptive war. That is more accurate and careful. I think that my overall sense over time was that the Church largely supported the Iraq War, but I am sure that impression was colored by interactions with local members and the general cozy relationship with the Bush administration.Aristotle Smith wrote: ↑Fri Sep 11, 2020 9:01 pmIt's funny how people experience things differently. My main memory of the LDS church and the Iraq war was the talk given by Gordon B. Hinckley on the subject. The talk could best be summarized as: "Maybe we should, maybe we shouldn't; it's hard to say." At that time I was, like you, a faithful member. However, even at that time, that talk was disappointing to me. For me the main philosophical/theological issue was the new political doctrine of a preemptive war and I was hoping that the LDS church would address it. When Gordon B. Hinckley started talking about the war, I thought he would do so. I wanted and was expecting to hear a prophet of God, instead I heard a political operative wanting it both ways.
My wife and I were living in California at the time of Prop 22, the often forgot precursor to prop 8, and I was still fully LDS. The LDS church convinced us to do some door-to-door canvassing for that proposition. We went to three doors on the list we were assigned. After the third door I looked at my wife and said, "This is BS, who cares?" She agreed, we chucked the dumb list, and went home. By the time of prop 8 I was out of the church. My memory of prop 8 was that the LDS church was not showing their true colors and were going all in. It was almost like they were trying to use the proposition to show Evangelicals and Catholics how awesome they were and that they too could fight political battles for good. Ironically, by that time I think a lot of EV's and Catholics had given up on politics, which is why the LDS church basically had to go for it alone in 2008.
I think their involvement in gay marriage issues had little to do with gay marriage and more about being able to continue to hold up the fig leaf of the Manifesto as the reason for no longer engaging in polygamy. They surmised, probably correctly, that preventing gay marriage would also prevent legalization of polygamy. I think the LDS church is absolutely petrified of legalized polygamy. Wilford Woodruff left the door open to a return of polygamy by not denying the doctrine, but only stopping the practice based on the legality of it. When the legality problems go away, the Manifesto becomes null and void, at least on a plain reading of the text.
Thank you for sharing your experience with Prop 22. Good for you in dropping out of that effort early on! We specifically left over Prop 8. The bishopric came over to our house to address our concerns. That went nowhere. By the way, one of the counselors that came with the bishop that day has now left the Church too.
I have had the same thoughts about the Church's rationale for opposing gay marriage, but at this point I think it was really mostly an anti-gay thing. I say that because of Oaks’ consistent involvement in that issue since the 1980s.