Kerry Muhlestein's excavation permit pulled

[_Temp. Admin.]

(Dr. Shades here, using our "Temp. Admin." account.)

This subject has been touched on previously, but the Reddit user known as "NotTerriblyHelpful" made a very detailed post regarding the ins-and-outs of Kerry Muhlestein's dig permit being revoked by the Egyptian Antiquities authorities. I can't remember if such a thorough treatment was sourced here before.

This seems like a very bad "hit" to his reputation as an Egyptologist. What are your thoughts on the following Reddit article?

https://www.reddit.com/r/mormonscholar/ ... n_license/

[_Philo Sofee]

It damn sure means he doesn't have a leg to stand on ridiculing anything about Ritner's Egyptological status.......

[_moksha]

Wasn't the permit restored after a bit of palm greasing?

[_Dr Exiled]

I'm not surprised that Dr. Muhlestein exaggerates claims. That's what Mormon apologists do. Exaggerate, claim persecution, obfuscate, claim persecution, create straw men, demand 20 years to respond, then claim persecution once again.

[_Philo Sofee]

I'm not surprised that Dr. Muhlestein exaggerates claims. That's what Mormon apologists do. Exaggerate, claim persecution, obfuscate, claim persecution, create straw men, demand 20 years to respond, then claim persecution once again.

Especially if you rush them in the 19th year of the reign of obfuscation! When they say 20 years, they mean it!

[_Shulem]

Especially if you rush them in the 19th year of the reign of obfuscation! When they say 20 years, they mean it!

I can top that!

Katumin was born in the 30th year of the reign of her father, and died when she was 28 years old, which was the year 3020.

Oliver Cowdery handwriting



Stupid Mormon Church!

[_Kishkumen]

A couple of things to keep in mind:

1) Excavation permits in foreign countries can be very politically tricky things. Politics change, relationships between countries change, regimes change, and permits can be yanked for any combination of reasons, sometimes inscrutable ones.

2) If we want an example of the kind of thing that should banish someone from the company of scholars of antiquity forever, considering the case of Dirk Obbink, who sold papyri he did not own to wealthy buyers.

Mistakenly calling burials mummies and exaggerating the number of burials are clumsy, silly things. You might say that a careful scholar would not make both mistakes. One of the two mistakes is not a big deal. A couple of clumsy errors like this raise an eyebrow or two. That said, I am not sure that at other times and in other circumstances this would get any traction. It could be that Egyptian authorities were looking for an excuse to get rid of BYU, and KM handed them a convenient one by being a little sloppy or unwisely attention-seeking.

I hope the situation was ironed out and that BYU's work has continued. I don't have any inside information on any of it.

[_Dr Exiled]

A couple of things to keep in mind:

1) Excavation permits in foreign countries can be very politically tricky things. Politics change, relationships between countries change, regimes change, and permits can be yanked for any combination of reasons, sometimes inscrutable ones.

2) If we want an example of the kind of thing that should banish someone from the company of scholars of antiquity forever, considering the case of Dirk Obbink, who sold papyri he did not own to wealthy buyers.

Mistakenly calling burials mummies and exaggerating the number of burials are clumsy, silly things. You might say that a careful scholar would not make both mistakes. One of the two mistakes is not a big deal. A couple of clumsy errors like this raise an eyebrow or two. That said, I am not sure that at other times and in other circumstances this would get any traction. It could be that Egyptian authorities were looking for an excuse to get rid of BYU, and KM handed them a convenient one by being a little sloppy or unwisely attention-seeking.

I hope the situation was ironed out and that BYU's work has continued. I don't have any inside information on any of it.

I think going to the international press might have had something to do with it. Sure, mistakes happen, but, are amplified once the press is involved. Dr. Muhlestein probably didn't have any experience or much with such public matters and obviously should have been more careful. This was supposedly a big find and perhaps the possibility of fame got the best of him?

It reminds me of the cold-fusion fiasco at the UofU. Data should have been checked by Ponds and Fleischman prior to making the announcement .....

[_Kishkumen]

Yes, Dr. Exiled, this is what I meant by unwisely attention-seeking. It was not a prudent thing to do. This comes from not fully appreciating the delicate nature of foreign excavations. One is there by the grace and generosity of the host country. One does not deal with these gifts lightly. KM seems to have been quite imprudent for whatever reason.

[_Gadianton]

Suppose that a coven of Devil worshipers became fascinated with the stone-work of temples built in Utah in the 19th century. Suppose they held that somewhere along the line, early Mormons had learned important secrets about the lord, Lucifer, but misunderstood the significance and worked them into Christianity. Blasphemous though it may be, His servants aren't ignorant of Thomas Kuhn and they know that the world isn't always black and white, and while one day, Christians will pay at the hands of the Devil's angels, for now the servants must be patient and have faith. Besides, these Mormons don't know what they have, and perhaps it's in His plan that some of them will be guided to the Well of Blackness based on the partial darkness that they'd already received. Let Lucifer add to what they already have!

The coven's most revered dark monk had left behind a notebook describing the perfect dimensions of a Unholy Place that contains the secret symbols of Death. Some of the scholars of the coven believe that this room might have been the Celestial Room of the Salt Lake temple. Now, the leadership of the coven know that the temple doors won't swing open for them so that they can find out. But perhaps they do have a chance? For one, some from their ranks are recognized scholars of architecture and stonework, publishing frequently in peer-reviewed journals. And there are some real contributions they can make to the scholarly community if they can get in -- of course while they are in, they can also satisfy their curiosity about the Unholy Place.

Sure, they are interested in what secrets may lie in the new symbols if found, but just as important to them, is whether or not certain dimensions spoken of by the Revered Monk match the room in question because if so, how could he have known! That would confirm his Dark calling.

They also know that while only certain card-carrying members can normally get in, every now and again cleaning and restoration takes place, and so they wish to reach out to the LDS authorities to enter the temples during one of these times, when any-old-Joe laborers pass through to do their jobs. On the one hand, it's virtually assured that these scholars will find something that contributes to the world's understanding of architecture, which will also land the temples as subjects in scholarly journals through work done by outside scholars. On the other hand, everyone knows this coven has their own internal publishing arm, and though they know when to keep quiet about their personal beliefs, the proposed visit will drive years of internal writings heralding victory for Lucifer, and strengthening beliefs that Christianity will one day topple over in a bloody world battle that the coven looks forward to and sing hymns about on Friday nights.

How should Church leaders handle the request?