Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Shulem
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Smith got ideas from the Adam Clarke Commentary

Post by Shulem »

Prior to translating the Book of Abraham, Smith was busy with his New Translation of the Bible and combing though the bible and making changes. It's likely he was familiar with Adam Clarke's rumored statement of how Egyptians were known to sacrifice children:
Adam Clarke Commentary Ex 7:22 wrote:As it is well known that the Nile was a chief object of Egyptian idolatry, (See Clarke's note on Exodus 7:15;), and that annually they sacrificed a girl, or as others say, both a boy and a girl, to this river, in gratitude for the benefits received from it, (Universal Hist., vol. i., p. 178, fol. edit).
It's plausible that Clarke's statement may have influenced Smith in writing his Book of Abraham novel. Seriously, I think this may be a hit on Clark's reference of human sacrifice being transferred into the Book of Abraham:
Abraham 1:10 wrote:Even the thank-offering of a child did the priest of Pharaoh offer upon the altar which stood by the hill called Potiphar’s Hill, at the head of the plain of Olishem.
Egyptologist Robert Ritner is adamant that the so-called "altar" is not an altar but a bed. Robert Ritner is correct! Joseph Smith was wrong.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:00 pm
For anyone paying attention check out this scene with Anubis:
https://ancientneareastdotorg.files.wor ... -mummy.jpg
This:

Image

Notice the upper and lower motif consisting of a row of stars, the lower row is easily discernible:

*********************************

This signifies that it's a heavenly scene -- the afterlife -- Anubis bringing the mummy to life to live in heaven forever among the stars. This is not an earthly scene among mortals but is immortality expressed among the stars with the gods. Praise be to Amon-Ra!

HalleluRA! For ever and ever, halleluRA, halleluRA!

And Amon-Ra shall reign for ever and ever!

Recall that Facsimile No. 3 also has a row of stars in the upper motif. That too, is a heavenly scene. It represents what was happening in heaven as Hor was being ushered into the presence of Osiris. Smith's interpretation set the scene on earth among mortals and his cast of characters amount to nothing more than a joke coming from the mouth of a snake oil salesman -- a liar.

Now take into consideration the Facsimile No. 1. The rising of Osiris took place on earth where his wife received him in order to conceive Horus. There is no motif of stars because it's not a heavenly scene. The motif is that of the Nile and the niched bricking or carved stones signifies the temple walls adjacent to the Nile where the river crocodiles are ever present.

All glory to Osiris my lord!

Amen.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

From the mouth of a liar:

Image
Kerry LIAR Muhlestein wrote:The Book of Abraham is not about Egyptology and it's not based on Egyptology really in any way . . . . we don't know . . . .

Interview with Kerry Muhlestein: Book of Abraham (11:15 mark)
It makes me wonder if Muhlestein has even read the Book of Abraham in conjunction with the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language. President Joseph Smith called appointed scribes by revelation to assist him in translating the papyrus and to produce the Grammar and Alphabet into the Book of Abraham. Historical statements made by Smith, members of the Twelve, scribes, and other eyewitnesses, contradict Muhlestein at every turn. Muhlestein hasn't a leg to stand on and speaks with the forked tongue of a lying serpent! Muhlestein's temple recommend should be revoked immediately. He is not worthy to enter the temple! His bishop should be contacted STAT.

Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language 1835

The Book of Abraham *IS* about Egyptology and *IS* based on (Smith's) Egyptology:

translating this chara[c]ter

Phah eh. The first man

Phaah. The largest riegn

Ho oop hah Queen Kah tou mun, a distinction of Royal <​female​> lineage or descent, from

her whom Egypt was discovered while it was under water, who was the daughter of Ham.— a lineage with whom a record of the fathers was intrusted by the tradition of Ham and accordding to the tradition of their elders; by who<​m​> also the tradition of the art of embalming in <​was​> kept.

Kah ton num: a lineage with whom a record of the fathers was intrusted by tradition of Ham, and according to the tradition of their elders, by whom also the tradition of the art of of embalming was kept.

Ho-e-oop A prince of the royal blood a true desendant from Ham, the son of Noah, and inheritor of the Kingly blessings from under the hand of Noah, but not according to the priestly blessing, because of the trangrissions of Ham, which blessing fell upon Shem from under the hand of Noah

Ha e oop hah— honor by birth, kingly power by the line of Pharoah

in lineage by royal descent, in a line by onitas one of the royal families of the Kings of Egypt.

Iota toues Zip Zis: The land of Egypt which was first discovered by a woman <​White Housele underwater​>, and afterwards settled by her Sons she being a daughter of Ham— any land over flown with water

Zi oophah— a distinction by Pharoah a princess of Egypt.

Ho e oop— A prince of the line of the Pharoahs

Phah ho e oop. Royal blood or pharoah

Kah tou mun, a distinction of royal female lineage

Zi oop hah a distinction by right of heirship by Pharaoh

Ho e oop A virtuous prince

Phah-ho-e-oop The lineage of the royal family

Kah-tow-mun The name of a Royal family in the female line

Iota toues-Zipzi: The land of Egypt

Kahtu=aim: Another Kingdom governed by different laws, composed of subjects who receive their place at a future period, and governed by those who are under the directions of another

a sign among the Egyptians that is used for influence or power
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The title Pharaoh is abused by Smith

Post by Shulem »

As mentioned earlier, the title PHARAOH used in the context of Smith's Book of Abraham is an anachronism (See here and here). This is proven conclusively by nonMormon Egyptologists (such as Ritner) although a pair of APOSTATE Egyptologists (Gee & Muhlestein) have been known to deny it and defend Smith's ignorant use of the term found in the Book of Abraham wherein this dynastic era must belong to the Middle Kingdom.

Smith uses the word "Pharaoh" a total of 13 times in chapter 1 of the Book of Abraham:

1. Pharaoh, king of Egypt;
2. Elkenah was also the priest of Pharaoh
3. Pharaoh, the king of Egypt
4. god of Pharaoh
5. priest of Pharaoh offer upon the altar
6. god like unto that of Pharaoh, king of Egypt
7. and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt
8. court of Pharaoh
9. Pharaoh signifies king by royal blood.
10. Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus
11. Pharaoh, being a righteous man, established his kingdom
12. Pharaoh being of that lineage
13. notwithstanding the Pharaohs would fain claim it

Smith IGNORANTLY corrupts the word "Pharaoh" in his Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language to form bogus words and definitions:

1. Phah eh. The first man, or Adam coming from Adam. Kigs or right over Patriarchal right by appointment.
2. Phaah. The largest riegn, the greatest dominian, possessions or power.
3. Phah ho e oop— A king who has universal dominian, over all the earth.
4. Ha e oop hah— honor by birth, kingly power by the line of Pharoah . . . .
5. Hoeoophahphaheh Patriarchal government; or authority . . . .
6. Phah=eh Kingly power coming from some other Kingly power
7. Phaah Extending the Dominion, possession and power state further.
8. Phah ho e oop= extension of power by marriage or by ordination, or annointing
9. Ho oophah. Queen who has been married the second time
10. Hoe-oop hah phaheh: A land, Kingdom or dominion governed by wise,upright kings or rulers,
11. Phah=eh. Kingly <​power,​> or first king
12. Pha ah Havinng still greater dominion, or possesion or Power.
13. Phah ho e oop an extension of power
14. Zi oophah— a distinction by Pharoah a princess of Egypt.
15. Haeaopkahphakeh. A land Kingdom of or country, governed, by wise upright rulers . . . .
16. Phah=eh Kingly power= or king
17. Pha=ah— Having greater dominion, or possession
18. Phah ho e oop. Royal blood or pharoah
19. Zi oop hah a distinction by right of heirship by Pharaoh
20. Ho e oop hah phah eh. The principle of rule or ruling or reigning upon the . . . .
21. Phah=eh— The first man.— Adam, first father
22. Pha-ah— a more universel reign
23. Phah-ho-e-oop The lineage of the royal family
24. Ho=e-oop=hah=Phah eh: Reign or rule, government, power, Kingdom or dominion.

All of this is coming from the mind of the man who wrote the Book of Abraham! I'd have to say that chapter 1 of the Book of Abraham has shown to be utter rubbish. How much longer can stubborn Mormon leaders allow this horrific forgery to remain in their canon? How embarrassing.

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"King Pharaoh"

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Shulem wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:52 pm
Smith IGNORANTLY corrupts the word "Pharaoh" in his Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language to form bogus words and definitions:
I apologize for reneging somewhat on my promise not to discuss Facsimile No. 3, but I can't resist in making a connection to Smith's anachronistic use of the word Pharaoh and how he incorrectly applied it as a personal name of the Egyptian king in whose throne Abraham allegedly sat upon.
Facsimile No. 3 Fig. 2. wrote:King Pharaoh, whose name is given in the characters above his head.
"King Pharaoh" !!

King Pharaoh is Smith's joint use of a title in combination with a name whereas "King" is the title and "Pharaoh" is the name. That certainly seems to be Smith's understanding of the named definition of the Egyptian monarch. The text of the Book of Abraham in conjunction with the Grammar and Alphabet of the Egyptian Language verifies this is exactly what Smith believed.
Book of Abraham 1:20 wrote:and also in the court of Pharaoh; which Pharaoh signifies king by royal blood.
The above statement in the Book of Abraham tells us that the person by the name of "Pharaoh" was a king and that the name signifies a royal man having descended from a royal blood line. The definition in the Book of Abraham text is confirmed by Smith's Grammar of the Egyptian Alphabet in varying degrees:

a) Phah eh. The first man, or Adam coming from Adam. Kigs or right over Patriarchal right by appointment.

b) Phah ho e oop— A king who has universal dominian, over all the earth

c) Ha e oop hah— honor by birth, kingly power by the line of Pharoah

(Note above that "the line of Pharaoh" signifies an ancestral family line of the personal name: Pharaoh who according to the Book of Abraham was "Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus")

e) Phah=eh. Kingly <​power,​> or first king

f) Phah ho e oop. Royal blood or pharoah

g) Ho-e-oop A prince of the royal blood

(Dr. Shades, please make an exception to the red-colored font rule in this case)

Image

Do you now understand, my apprentice?

:twisted:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by moksha »

Shulem, could you help decipher this bit of Reformed Egyptian?

zi pit ti ae tie ae
zi pit ti oow
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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moksha wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 4:32 pm
Shulem, could you help decipher this bit of Reformed Egyptian?

zi pit ti ae tie ae
zi pit ti oow
:rolleyes:

Image
Book of Abraham 1:6 wrote:For their hearts were set to do evil, and were wholly turned to the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of PHAH HO E OOP, PHAH of Egypt;
Book of Abraham 1:7 wrote:Therefore they turned their hearts to the sacrifice of the heathen in offering up their children unto these dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice, but endeavored to take away my life by the hand of the priest of Elkenah. The priest of Elkenah was also the priest of PHAH HO E OOP.
Book of Abraham 1:8 wrote:Now, at this time it was the custom of the priest of PHAH HO E OOP, the PHAH of Egypt, to offer up upon the altar which was built in the land of Chaldea, for the offering unto these strange gods, men, women, and children.
Book of Abraham 1:9 wrote:And it came to pass that the priest made an offering unto the god of PHAH HO E OOP, and also unto the god of Shagreel, even after the manner of the Egyptians. Now the god of Shagreel was the sun.
Book of Abraham 1:10 wrote:Even the thank-offering of a child did the priest of PHAH HO E OOP offer upon the altar which stood by the hill called Potiphar’s Hill, at the head of the plain of Olishem.
Book of Abraham 1:13 wrote:It was made after the form of a bedstead, such as was had among the Chaldeans, and it stood before the gods of Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, Korash, and also a god like unto that of PHAH HO E OOP, PHAH of Egypt.
Book of Abraham 1:17 wrote:And this because they have turned their hearts away from me, to worship the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of PHAH HO E OOP, PHAH of Egypt; therefore I have come down to visit them, and to destroy him who hath lifted up his hand against thee, Abraham, my son, to take away thy life.
Book of Abraham 1:20 wrote:Behold, Potiphar’s Hill was in the land of Ur, of Chaldea. And the Lord broke down the altar of Elkenah, and of the gods of the land, and utterly destroyed them, and smote the priest that he died; and there was great mourning in Chaldea, and also in the court of PHAH HO E OOP; which PHAH HO E OOP signifies PHAH by HO E OOP.
Book of Abraham 1:21 wrote:Now this PHAH of Egypt was a descendant from the loins of Ham, and was a partaker of the blood of the Canaanites by birth.
Book of Abraham 1:25 wrote:Now the first government of Egypt was established by PHAH HO E OOP, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
Book of Abraham 1:26 wrote:PHAH HO E OOP, being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days, seeking earnestly to imitate that order established by the fathers in the first generations, in the days of the first patriarchal reign, even in the reign of Adam, and also of Noah, his father, who blessed him with the blessings of the earth, and with the blessings of wisdom, but cursed him as pertaining to the Priesthood.
Book of Abraham 1:27 wrote:Now, PHAH HO E OOP being of that lineage by which he could not have the right of Priesthood, notwithstanding the PHAHS HO E OOPS would fain claim it from Noah, through Ham, therefore my father was led away by their idolatry;

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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After the flood whereby God swore to destroy all flesh from off the earth, they disembarked from the ark: Noah and his wife, Shem, Ham, Japheth, and their wives. The waters receded after the ark had sailed safely from what was once ancient Jackson County Missouri to what would become Mesopotamia -- the New World. That's eight people to replenish and repopulate the earth, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Book of Abraham 1:23 wrote:The land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus, which in the Chaldean signifies Egypt, which signifies that which is forbidden;
Ham's daughter was of exceptionally good health and took a journey until she found a strange land way out yonder far away from what would become the promised land in the New World. Way to go, Mrs Darkie, you've just discovered Egypt! By the way, your mom's name is Egyptus because she is so royal! Apparently your mother and father have serious issues because your mother is black and will preserve the curse. Future prophets such as Brigham Young and Joseph Fielding Smith will comment on that but in the meantime you're going to have to settle for the fact that you're cursed. Your father Ham has been a very naughty man. He married a black woman! You too are cursed because you're black.
Book of Abraham 1:24 wrote:When this woman discovered the land it was under water, who afterward settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land.
Mrs Darkie was healthy and strong. She had many sons. She settled them on the Delta wherein the river was constant and the land was fertile.
Book of Abraham 1:25 wrote:Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.
After the flood Noah planted vineyards, tilled the ground, and got drunk. One day, Ham found Noah drunk and passed out in his tent. Ham's daughter gave birth to a son and called him PHAH. He would rule all the land in which she founded. She called his name Pharaoh which signified king by royal blood and he being a righteous man, established his kingdom and judged his people wisely and justly all his days. They went to live in the land of Egypt on the Nile River. Ham's daughter frequently sent letters to Noah and her uncle Shem who lived up north in Mesopotamia.

Can you believe this garbage?

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Re: Pharaohs

Post by Shulem »

Shulem wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:04 pm
Abraham is not just talking about the idolatrous Pharaoh of his own day fain claiming the priesthood but ALL the Pharaohs (PLURAL) since the days of Ham!! And with that said, how may Pharaohs ruled Egypt over the course of 350 years? This implies a sure knowledge that the kings of Egypt would have known of HAM and details of this information would have been contained in Egyptian chronicles and in the records not just from the days of Ham but all the way to Abraham and THEREAFTER!!!
Now with that said, it only gets worse, much, much, worse.

:twisted:

Noah was 600 years old (Gen 7:6,11) when the earth was flooded and his sons (Japheth, Shem, and Ham) were 150, 108, and 100 years old, respectively (Moses 8:12).

Now get this, and listen up: Noah lived to the age of 950 years (Gen 9:29) and died at about the time Abraham journed to the land of Canaan (Abr 2:14,15) after living in Haran for 10 years (Gen 16:3).

This means that (according to Egyptian chronology) the grand patriarch Noah was alive all the way up till the time of the powerful Egyptian 12th Dynasty!

QUESTION for John Gee:

Explain how Abraham is sitting on a 12th Dynasty throne while the grand patriarch Noah presides over the entire earth according to the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith?

Image

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Tower of Babel

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Folks, you do realize that I'm just getting started?

I am destroying the Book of Abraham, finally, and completely -- once and for all.


Image

At the Tower of Babel, the earth was divided whereby the Adamic language was confounded and other tongues were employed. The patriarch Eber named his newborn son Peleg which means division. The Tower fell and nations were established (Gen 10:25,32). This means that the Egyptians under PHARAOH (PHAH HO E OOP) were still speaking in the Adamic tongue. At what point did they convert from Adamic to Egyptian? Where in the potsherds do we find evidence of this?

John Gee, please explain!
John Gee wrote:

According to biblical chronology, the Tower of Babel fell only 101 years after the flood (BUT IT'S NOT FAIR TO SAY THAT BECAUSE THE EARTH WAS DIVIDED SOMETIME IN THE DAYS OF PELEG AND LANGUAGES WERE CONFOUNDED, BUT WHEN I CAN'T SAY) and the Jeredites prepared for their journey to the Book of Mormon promised land (Ether 2). The Egyptian civilization thrived during the time that Peleg age 30 begat Reu (Gen 11:18), Reu age 32 begat Serug (Gen 11:20), Serug age 30 begat Nahor (Gen 11:22), Nahor age 29 begat Terah (Gen 11:24), Terah age 70 begat Abram (Gen 11:26), wherein within 70 years Abraham is sitting on an Egyptian throne in the midst of the 12th Dynasty or thereabouts!

And, you'll note, I've said absolutely nothing about the Great Pyramids!!!

The biblical account mingled with the Book of Abraham is IMPOSSIBLE. Period. End of story.

:twisted:
Last edited by Shulem on Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

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Ham's daughter gave birth to a son and called him PHAH. He would rule all the land in which she founded. She called his name Pharaoh which signified king by royal blood and he being a righteous man...
Little good that royal blood be for Pharaoh if the Saints would exclude him for the color of his skin.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

moksha wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:06 pm
Ham's daughter gave birth to a son and called him PHAH. He would rule all the land in which she founded. She called his name Pharaoh which signified king by royal blood and he being a righteous man...
Little good that royal blood be for Pharaoh if the Saints would exclude him for the color of his skin.
Ur getting ahead of me. You're very perceptive my little black and white friend!

:biggrin:

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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:12 pm
Ur getting ahead of me.
:biggrin:
Sorry, watched too many PBS mysteries I suppose.
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Re: Pearl of Great Price Central Facsimile 1 as a Sacrifice Scene

Post by Shulem »

QUESTION for John Gee:

Please check the box that best describes the biblical chronological time when the 4th Dynasty Pyramid of Kufu was built:

[ ] Before Noah's flood
[ ] Shem begat Arphaxad 2 years after the flood
[ ] Arphaxad age 35 begat Salah
[ ] Salah age 30 begat Eber
[ ] Eber age 34 begat Peleg
[ ] Peleg age 30 begat Reu
[ ] Reu age 32 begat Serug
[ ] Serug age 30 begat Nahor
[ ] Nahor age 29 begat Terah
[ ] Terah age 70 begat Abram
[ ] Abram age 100 and Sarah beget Isaac
[ ] Isaac age 60 begat Esau and Jacob
[ ] Joseph age 39 when he reveals himself to his brethren

Image

You are beaten! I win! Ha ha.

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The silver bullet

Post by Shulem »

:idea:

Let's cut to the chase (it was late last night) and not worry about when or what year the earth was divided and when exactly the tower of Babel fell in the days of Peleg, although according to the biblical account, it happened sometime during Peleg's long life. I don't want to make mistakes and get sidetracked because as soon as I make one little mistake the apologists will discount everything I say and judge my work completely unreliable. That is one of the tricks apologists like to use. Nonetheless, let's focus strictly on the chronology established by the biblical account and see how it's utterly IMPOSSIBLE (0% plausiblity) that the Egyptian civilization was founded by Ham's progeny. Let's put all the chips on the table right now. Shall we? The Mormons can't justify the Book of Abraham's false narrative unless they deny Egyptology & science for the sake of defending their doomed book of scripture. Let's now account for the string of events recorded in the bible:

1. Noah disembarks from the ark as the grand patriarch of the new world.
2. Shem begat Arphaxad 2 years after the flood.
3. Arphaxad age 35 begat Salah
4. Salah age 30 begat Eber
5. Eber age 34 begat Peleg
6. Peleg age 30 begat Reu
7. Reu age 32 begat Serug
8. Serug age 30 begat Nahor
9. Nahor age 29 begat Terah
10. Terah age 70 begat Abram
11. Abram age 75 begins his journey to Canaan (BofA says age 62)

This accounts for a total of 365 years since the flood.

Abraham is now in Egypt!

But note the following patriarchs were still alive during Abraham's Egyptian sojourn:

Noah (died at age 950)
Reu (died at age 239)
Serug (died at age 230
Tera (died at age 205)
Arphaxad (died at age 438)
Salah (died at age 433)
Shem (died at age 610)
Eber (died at age 464)

Note that this includes Noah and Shem who was the so-called "great high priest" mentioned in D&C 138:41.

That is quite an assembly of patriarchs who were alive and well when Abraham went to Egypt and sat on Pharaoh's throne to teach his court astronomy and God only knows what else? But, it's imperative that it be understood that Abraham's life according to the biblical record and working backward in time would have been in or about the 12th Dynasty. Even John Gee knows this and surely wrestles with the implications of what this suggests. What does it suggest? Well, simply put: The 365 years from the flood to Abraham in Egypt is NOT by any stretch enough time to include:

1. Predynastic Egypt
2. Earlydynastic Egypt
3. Old Kingdom (Great Pyramids)
4. 1st Intermediate Period

Poor pitiful John Gee is left how to put the 4 epochs of Egyptian history into the 365 years allotted by biblical chronology! It can't be done. Science and Egyptology positively confirm beyond a shadow of doubt that that Egypt's Making and the periods mentioned above are far longer than what the Book of Abraham demands in making Ham the father of the Egyptian race! The dynastic periods alone exceed 1,000 years to say nothing of Predynastic Egpypt!!!

Folks, this an open and shut case. It *IS* John Gee's worst nightmare and he knows it!

It's the silver bullet in killing the Book of Abraham.

The Book of Abraham is DEAD. There is nothing the Mormons can do to save it.

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Tough question for John Gee

Post by Shulem »

John Gee wrote: Image

How do I account for the Egyptian periods consisting of Predynastic, Earlydynastic, Old Kingdom, and the 1st Intermediate Period having occurred between the time of Ham's progeny discovering the land of Egypt and Abraham sitting on Pharaoh's throne?

I can't. I have no explanation for that. But I'm sure there are parallels that will help us better understand. Would you like to hear a parallel?

Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o
And on his farm he had some cows
Ee i ee i oh
With a moo-moo here
And a moo-moo there
Here a moo, there a moo
Everywhere a moo-moo
Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o
Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o
And on his farm he had some chicks
Ee i ee i o
With a cluck-cluck here
And a cluck-cluck there
Here a cluck, there a cluck
Everywhere a cluck-cluck
Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o
Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o
And on his farm he had some pigs
Ee i ee i o
With an oink-oink here
And an oink-oink there
Here an oink, there an oink
Everywhere an oink-oink
Old MacDonald had a farm
Ee i ee i o

:lol:

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Muhlestein doesn't know

Post by Shulem »

Kerry Muhlestein wrote:Image

You're asking me when the Pyramids were built?

We don't know when they were built. We do know that the land of Egypt being first discovered by a woman, who was the daughter of Ham, and the daughter of Egyptus settled her sons in it; and thus, from Ham, sprang that race which preserved the curse in the land. Now the first government of Egypt was established by Pharaoh, the eldest son of Egyptus, the daughter of Ham, and it was after the manner of the government of Ham, which was patriarchal.

But when the Pyramids were built? We don't know.

They had to have been built before Abraham visited Egypt, obviously. But when? I can't say. They had to have been built sometime after the flood but we don't know when.

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Shulem
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Mormon Discussions

Post by Shulem »

John Gee wrote:Image

Look, I understand Shulem over at Mormon Discussions is raising some valid questions, and means well, in things we don't entirely understand. But it's important to note that he is not an Egyptologist and hasn't the training or expertise to discuss these things on a professional level.

And no, I don't know the king's name in Facsimile No. 3 or why Anubis doesn't have a snout. But I'm confident that there are parallels to help us better understand the messages of the Facsimile.

Would you like to hear a parallel?

Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
How I wonder what you are!
Up above the world so high,
Like a diamond in the sky.

:lol:

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Shulem
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Anachronistic ordination of Abraham

Post by Shulem »

Book of Abraham 1:1 wrote:In the land of the Chaldeans, at the residence of my fathers, I, Abraham, saw that it was needful for me to obtain another place of residence;
Yeah, time to split because things weren't going so well with father Terah who had turned to idol worship. Time to pack the bags and head out.

Book of Abraham 1:2 wrote:And, finding there was greater happiness and peace and rest for me, I sought for the blessings of the fathers, and the right whereunto I should be ordained to administer the same; having been myself a follower of righteousness, desiring also to be one who possessed great knowledge, and to be a greater follower of righteousness, and to possess a greater knowledge, and to be a father of many nations, a prince of peace, and desiring to receive instructions, and to keep the commandments of God, I became a rightful heir, a High Priest, holding the right belonging to the fathers.
Abraham sought the "BLESSINGS OF THE FATHERS" and the right to be ordained to the priesthood and lucky for him he was ordained a High Priest. Mission accomplished!

Book of Abraham 1:3 wrote:It was conferred upon me from the fathers; it came down from the fathers, from the beginning of time, yea, even from the beginning, or before the foundation of the earth, down to the present time, even the right of the firstborn, or the first man, who is Adam, or first father, through the fathers unto me.
This priesthood was purely patriarchal coming down from the fathers and it was conferred upon Abraham in that prescribed manner.

Book of Abraham 1:4 wrote:I sought for mine appointment unto the Priesthood according to the appointment of God unto the fathers concerning the seed.
Abraham sought an appointment to be ordained to the patriarchal priesthood of his fathers.

Book of Abraham 1:5 wrote:My fathers, having turned from their righteousness, and from the holy commandments which the Lord their God had given unto them, unto the worshiping of the gods of the heathen, utterly refused to hearken to my voice;
Hold the press! We know that Terah had an idolatry problem and Abraham ran out on him but here Abraham said "MY FATHERS" or in other words that seems to suggest his patriarchal lineage had become corrupt through apostasy! At least Terah went sour but who else does Abraham refer to? Abraham did say "FATHERS" (plural).

Book of Abraham 1:6 wrote:For their hearts were set to do evil, and were wholly turned to the god of Elkenah, and the god of Libnah, and the god of Mahmackrah, and the god of Korash, and the god of Pharaoh, king of Egypt;
Abraham now tells us that his FATHER'S "hearts were set to do evil" and became idol worshippers.

Book of Abraham 1:7 wrote:Therefore they turned their hearts to the sacrifice of the heathen in offering up their children unto these dumb idols, and hearkened not unto my voice, but endeavored to take away my life by the hand of the priest of Elkenah. The priest of Elkenah was also the priest of Pharaoh.
Abraham's concludes that his fathers were wicked. But how can this be? What's wrong with this story? According to the bible the only fathers that had passed away before this time was his grandfather Nahor who died just a few years prior at the age of 148 (Gen 11:25) and Peleg having died a year earlier at age 239 (Gen 11:19). Recall that most of Abraham's patriarchs (fathers) were still alive at the time Abraham sought for the priesthood and received the Urim and Thummim whereby he learned astronomy (chapter 3) prior to going down into Egypt to sit on Pharaoh's throne.

According to biblical chronicles the following fathers in patriarchal order were still alive when Abraham sought the priesthood and condemned his patriarchal line for idol worship:

1. Noah
2. Shem
3. Arphaxad
4. Salah
5. Eber
6. Reu
7. Serug
8. Terah


HOLD THE PRESS, SHULEM WAS WRONG!

I suspect that when Joseph Smith compiled the Book of Abraham and composed the genealogical connections between Abraham and his fathers that he was not aware that almost all of Abraham's paternal fathers were still alive! Nonetheless, Smith's Book of Abraham brashly makes a blanket statement that Abraham's fathers had turned to idol worship although the only person mentioned specifically in the account is Terah. But what of the 7 grandfathers who were still alive -- were they idol worshipers? Noah? Shem? Where were they? Why didn't Abraham receive the priesthood from them?

I think the answer is obvious. Smith hadn't reasoned that they were alive and wrote them out of the script! It would have made a lot more sense if Abraham had been ordained by the grand patriarch Noah or the great high priest Shem. But not so. Instead, Smith deviates from rhyme and reason with the following:
D&C 84:14 wrote:Which Abraham received the priesthood from Melchizedek, who received it through the lineage of his fathers, even till Noah;
It makes no sense at all. The snippet in the D&C (given in 1832) makes it sound like the fathers were all dead!

Smith is caught with his pants down! Busted.
Last edited by Shulem on Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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moksha
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Re: Mormon Discussions

Post by moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:50 pm
John Gee wrote:Image

Look, I understand Shulem over at Mormon Discussions is raising some valid questions, and means well, in things we don't entirely understand. But it's important to note that he is not an Egyptologist and hasn't the training or expertise to discuss these things on a professional level.
This makes me wish that Cassius University would grant you an honorary doctorate in advanced lettering.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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Shulem
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They're not dead

Post by Shulem »

Book of Abraham 1:16 wrote:And his voice was unto me: Abraham, Abraham, behold, my name is Jehovah, and I have heard thee, and have come down to deliver thee, and to take thee away from thy father’s house, and from all thy kinsfolk, into a strange land which thou knowest not of;
Terah was an idol worshiper -- we get that, but does that mean all the kinsfolk had turn to idolatry? It seems so. Sounds like a good time to reconnect with Noah and Shem -- the good guys. Where are they hiding out?

Book of Abraham 1:18 wrote:Behold, I will lead thee by my hand, and I will take thee, to put upon thee my name, even the Priesthood of thy father, and my power shall be over thee.
HOLD THE PRESS, SHULEM WAS WRONG!

So, Abraham is going to get the priesthood of his father but not under his father's apostate hands. We can understand that. So why not go up the ranks to get the priesthood from the next righteous father in line such as Shem or Noah? They were still alive although Noah was in his twilight with just few years left. Surely Abraham would want to visit Noah!

Book of Abraham 1:19 wrote:As it was with Noah so shall it be with thee; but through thy ministry my name shall be known in the earth forever, for I am thy God.
HOLD THE PRESS, SHULEM WAS WRONG!

There's the anachronism! "AS IT WAS WITH NOAH", or in other words according to Smith's story Noah is no more, he's dead. Abraham's ministry is a new beginning to mirror the patriarch from a former age. The problem is, Noah was still alive and Shem the great High Priest outlived Abraham by 35 years! Smith didn't realize this and goofed up his stupid story. Ha ha.
Last edited by Shulem on Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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