Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

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Shulem
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Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

5 1/2 (!) hour episode

:exclaim:

"Fasten your seat-belts; it’s going to be a bumpy night!"

Man, you weren't kidding. I had to delete or edit several posts. Crazy night!

:redface:
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Dr Exiled »

I was disappointed it wasn't 7 1/2 hours - :lol:

Just starting the journey now.
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Robert K. Ritner wrote:The nose was clipped off . . . . someone directed the plate-maker to go in with a chisel and hack things out and adjust it from Anubis to a human figure . . .
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Thank you, Philo Sofee, for being such an inspiration to me regarding Book of Abraham studies going back many years. YOU inspired me, bro!

And thank you, mentalgymnast, for asking me questions.

A few questions for Shulem

I found the nose

:twisted:

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by consiglieri »

And thank you, Kerry Shirts, for finally agreeing to come on my podcast for an interview!
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:37 pm
And thank you, Kerry Shirts, for finally agreeing to come on my podcast for an interview!
Image

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by consiglieri »

Just kidding
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by consiglieri »

I am hoping I can shame Kerry into it.
You prove yourself of the devil and anti-mormon every word you utter, because only the devil perverts facts to make their case.--ldsfaqs (6-24-13)

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:19 pm
I am hoping I can shame Kerry into it.
My best guess is that you'll succeed.

Kerry likes to be heard!

Go Kerry!

:lol:

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

John Gee discovers the Missing Roll and translates it!

Image


Gee wipes his ass with the Missing Roll!

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Joseph Smith translated the Egyptian correctly. Isn't that right, John Gee?

Gee, please save thy church!

:surprised:

My silly apologetic:

Kahtoumun

:wink:

:lol:

"Gee came for the piece of paper"

The paper that pays his BYU salary!

:mad:

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Tune to the 3:35 mark!!

Shame on you Daniel!

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

John Gee is paid by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to defend the Book of Abraham.

:twisted:
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

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Ritner wrote:Gee is paid for the purpose of propping up the Book of Abraham
Ritler slams Gee for lying! 3:28

Gee should be fired! 3:30

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

The Essay for the Book of Abraham on the Church website does two things:

1. Allows members to embrace the Missing Roll Theory
2. Allows members to embrace the Catalyst Theory

Please note that both theories cannot be true. It's one or the other (or none at all). The Church is taking this position in order to prevent a schism from occurring in the Church wherein many members who know about the controversies have taken a position or belief. In doing this the Church remains wishy-washy like a wave of the sea that is driven by the wind and tossed. No revelation. No vision. No divine guidance!
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Image

Roll in your grave, Maxwell!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by aussieguy55 »

In that paper I got by Tamas Mekis has examples of figures 5 6 & 7 similar to that of Fac 2. One difference is that in Fac 2 one might think that the "bird" is a dove. However in similar looking examples on Hypocephalus Louvre N 352 Musee du Louvre /C. Decamps and Turin cat. no. 2321 Museo Antichita Egizie di Torino the snake with legs appears.
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

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consiglieri wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:37 pm
And thank you, Kerry Shirts, for finally agreeing to come on my podcast for an interview!
This one should be a lot of fun. I cannot wait!!! Be sure to incorporate a chess reference or two.

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by Shulem »

Yes indeed, the 3rd installment was the bomb and so informative! What an amazing presentation. Absolutely golden. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right! :lol:

Thank you, RFM, what an amazing job you did. You cemented your place in history when it comes to the Book of Abraham.

Another donation is on its way!

:smile:

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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by aussieguy55 »

Tamas Mekis author of Some Reflections on the Funerary Equipment of Paiuhor

"Thank you for your message on the Academia.edu. Today I managed to see the interview with Prof. Ritner. He is really a great name in Egyptology today, he is an expert of magical practices of Ancient Egyptians. As for your question, in general, I agree with his explications, though he doesn't explain different figures as a coherent whole. He is completely right about that Joseph Smith's translations are completely false, it has nothing to do with the Egyptian Language. Prof. Ritner's translations are correct.
In my articles written on the topic I tried to harmonize figures illustrated on the discs to explain the motor of the horizontal registers of the hypocephalus. As Prof. Ritner told, the main purpose of this amulet was to create protective warmth and light under the head of the deceased as the disc emulates the sundisc. I base my explications on this fact, so behind most of the figures there is a form of the sun god (Amon-Re). As in the case of most of Egyptian amulets, behind each one there is a Book of the Death Spell, which prescribes its usage. In the case of the hypocephalus it is spell 162, which is about the heavenly cow (mother of Amon-Re), who created this amulet for his son at his death to protect him during his journey through the underworld. The texts and figures of the hypocephalus are all with this protective magical purpose.
So symbolically, the death of Amon-Re (the Sun) means the death of the god (Sunset), since the underworld of the Egyptians was a dangerous place they equipped the deceased with magical, protective devices (amulets, magical spells, richly decorated coffin(s), etc.) to safe journey through the underworld as to come up (rise) every morning as or with the sun god. So the deceased assimilated to the sun god who died each day and went down to the underworld on the West but next morning rose from the underworld on the East. As the hypocephalus was basically a sun symbol its figures explain the way of the journey of the sun through the day sky (upper hemisphere) and through the night sky (opposite hemisphere).
I send you through "wetransfer" a synoptic study, which is about the funerary equipment of a priest called Paiuhor. He may have been contemporary of Sheshonq (owner of the hypocephalus - Facsimile no. 2). So you will have an idea how the Egyptians equipped the mummy to the afterlife in the early Ptolemaic Period. In the study (pp. 268-277) I analyse the hypocephalus of this priest, thus you will see my point (which basically rhymes with Prof. Ritner's explications).

If you will have further questions, do not hesitate to write me. If you will still be interested in further details, I can send you my book on hypocephali in a digital form.

Best wishes,
Tamás
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Re: Radio Free Mormon: 191: Dr. Robert K. Ritner on the Book of Abraham part 3

Post by aussieguy55 »

Further comment by Mekis

"Thanks for your reply. The paper you are interested in is the result of our research with Malcolm Mosher Jr. As you know Antonio Lebolo worked in the service of the French consul Bernardino Drovetti in Thebes, what he found in the tombs he transmitted to his chief and later in his career he kept some objects for his own collection which he transported to Italy when he retired and retuned to Piedmont. Finally this collection landed in America and some pieces ended up in the hands of Joseph Smith.
Naturally Lobolo sold pieces to other customers too in Thebes. Together with my colleague we managed to identify the second part of the papyrus Joseph Smith 2 and 3. While the first part of the papyri was in the possession of Joseph Smith the second part was sold by Lebolo to Mr. Cimba, doctor of the English consul, Henry Salt. Dr. Cimba's collection ended up in Leiden. A third small piece from this papyrus was transmitted to Drovetti by Lebolo which ended up in the Louvre with the rest of Drovetti's collection.

I send you this article too through "wetransfer".

To tell you the truth I read also many articles from Smith's story with the Egyptian antiquities, but in my opinion H. Donl Peterson's The Story of the Book of Abraham. Mummies, Manuscripts, and Mormonism book is the best. Do you have this book? I can send you a digitized version of this one if you are interested in.

I send you also the catalogue section of my book, where facsimile 2 appears. I have an idea about that Smith may have seen another hypocephalus in Kirtland but he didn't purchase it, that is why he knew that on the missing upper section there should have stood another both, that is why he reconstructed one there in the publication at Times and Season. Though it is just a hypothesis, but why not?

The closest analogy to the Mormon example is cat. no. 61 (an example of Vienna).

With my best wishes,
Tamás "
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"

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