Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

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Shulem
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Shulem »

Themis wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:48 pm
That depends on what kind of activities he is engaged in. If he is RVing and staying away from crowds and wearing masks when shopping It is pretty much no different then staying at his house.
He's out and about breathing his potentially contaminated breath on poor helpless animals.

If and ever I see a dead fox on the side of the road, I'll be thinking about how Peterson killed a fox when he selfishly went out and spread his contaminated breath and polluted mother earth.

Murderer!

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mentalgymnast
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by mentalgymnast »

Themis wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:48 pm
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:06 pm


That’s true. I could, and he did. But in order for me to go on vacation, I would have to be the sort of amoral scum bag who puts his own pleasure over the health of others. The advice is quite clear, and it makes sense: if you are able to stay home, you should do it.

Dr. Peterson is going to have a very difficult time living this one down.
That depends on what kind of activities he is engaged in. If he is RVing and staying away from crowds and wearing masks when shopping It is pretty much no different then staying at his house.
But his name is DCP.

What does that have to do with it you say? Well, I think you can figure it out.

The fact is, DCP has kept Dr. Scratch in business here. Without him as a target/foil Scratch would have been out of business long ago. Targeting DCP on a vacation as he is enjoying nature with his family really seems unnecessary.

If it was almost anyone else besides him, it wouldn’t even deserve mention.

My wife and I have family flying in today. We haven’t put life on hold. Are we being careful, wearing a mask, etc.? Of course. And so are our kids and grandchildren as they’re coming to visit.

Give the man a break. I’m sure he’s being careful. Can’t you give him the benefit of a doubt?

Quick to judge. Sad.

Not you, Themis. Others in this instance.

Regards,
MG

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Gadianton »

MG: "My wife and I have family flying in today. We haven’t put life on hold. Are we being careful, wearing a mask, etc.? Of course. And so are our kids and grandchildren as they’re coming to visit."

The difference is the "target" you mention is a public face for the Church, and has a good degree of credibility with tends of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of people. And the guy heading up Covid response (apparently) for the state of Utah is a main contributor on his blog. What would be otherwise minor errors in judgment, may thus become significant. In contrast, you have zero credibility with anybody, including other Mormons, and so there is no other leverage behind your actions then their worth at face value.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Shulem
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

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mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am
Give the man a break. I’m sure he’s being careful. Can’t you give him the benefit of a doubt?
I'm not going to give FAT Dan the benefit of the doubt. Why should I? He's a twisted liar who defends the ridiculous claims of Mormonism such as the translation of the Book of Abraham -- wherein it is proven beyond a doubt that there is no "king's name in Facsimile No. 3" and that Smith's spurious translations and explanations were nothing but made-up lies.

Anyway, it should be understood that we are dealing with a crafty apologist who loves to manipulate language with twists and gyrations in order to defend falsehoods.

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by mentalgymnast »

Gadianton wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:44 am
...you have zero credibility with anybody, including other Mormons, and so there is no other leverage behind your actions then their worth at face value.
Well, I don’t know about that. 🙂

Be that as it may, as I read through this thread I saw very little to criticize except for the criticism being leveraged against DCP.

But to each his own, I suppose. You’re a Scratch groupie/aficionado and ‘compadre in crime’ as to your efforts against the LDS church and those associated with defending the beliefs of members that adhere to and live according to the precepts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the LDS faith.

There’s obviously going to be a certain amount of friction between folks like you and Scratch and DCP. But to target him as he’s giving a travelogue of his vacation? C’mon.

That’s a bit much.

But like I say, to each his own, I suppose.

That’s all I have to say on this.

Regards,
MG

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Shulem »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:07 am
as to your efforts against the LDS church and those associated with defending the beliefs of members that adhere to and live according to the precepts of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the LDS faith.
These beliefs and precepts being brainwashed into young and impressionable minds of little boys and girls while being interviewed by bishops (alone) in an office where God only knows what's going on in there.

You belong to a cult, MG. A child molesting cult, mind you! But you don't care. You approve of it. You're part of the problem!

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Themis »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am
But his name is DCP.

What does that have to do with it you say? Well, I think you can figure it out.

The fact is, DCP has kept Dr. Scratch in business here. Without him as a target/foil Scratch would have been out of business long ago. Targeting DCP on a vacation as he is enjoying nature with his family really seems unnecessary.

If it was almost anyone else besides him, it wouldn’t even deserve mention.
I agree. I suspect Scratch would criticize little to none someone who is a well known non-believer. I suggested some activities are low risk and others would be high, but no one has asked which one DCP is doing.

Recommendations are not the same as mandates in behavior and they are given to let people know which activities are high risk and which are low risk. Travel risks depend on the type of travel and what kind of activities one will be doing. Air travel is a high risk activity while driving is low. staying in a hotel is probably moderate risk while RVing or tenting would be low risk. Going to busy beaches is probably moderate to high risk, but going on hikes in low density areas low risk. I would look at what a person is doing before commenting on whether they are being irresponsible.
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am

My wife and I have family flying in today. We haven’t put life on hold. Are we being careful, wearing a mask, etc.? Of course. And so are our kids and grandchildren as they’re coming to visit.
I find this a lot easier to sympathize with than a purely self-serving vacation. And what you've said merely proves my basic point. Why didn't DCP go to visit with his children or grandchildren? Was it because he didn't want to take on the risk of getting infected? Well, hey: at least he can go gallivanting around in the Rocky Mountains! I was actually in Rocky Mountain National Park last year, and went hiking on some of the trails not far from Estes Park. They were *quite* crowded. Maybe that's not the case right now on account of the pandemic, but still. This is all about choices, and each of our choices is going to be freighted with extra meaning. This is going to be especially so for those who are broadcasting their behavior out into the wilderness of the Internet. Dr. Midgley is fond of reminding everybody of the idea that we'll all be "judged" after this "mortal probation." Think of this as a trial run for the Mopologists.

The title of my OP was a question, and it seems that most posters have been unwilling to supply an answer to it. Maybe it would be better to put this into more strictly religious terms, then? I.e., what would Jesus or Joseph Smith have to say about someone risking others' lives in order to go on a vacation during a pandemic? And I grant Themis's point: yes, there are reckless and there are 'safer' ways to do things during this outbreak, so the extent to which "others' lives" were at risk is going to be relative. Still, the CDC's recommendations are quite clear. Do you have to follow them, as if they were law? No, you don't. Should you, though? And if you disregard the recommendations, and publicly post about it, what does that say about your character?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Lemmie »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:30 pm
mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am

My wife and I have family flying in today. We haven’t put life on hold. Are we being careful, wearing a mask, etc.? Of course. And so are our kids and grandchildren as they’re coming to visit.
I find this a lot easier to sympathize with than a purely self-serving vacation...
Only slightly. Personally, I find it irresponsible and nonsensical. Putting life on hold is exactly what is being asked, in order to save lives. And no your kids and grandchildren are NOT “being careful.” By definition, flying in from other states, going through airports, interacting with many people is not being careful.

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

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Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:30 pm

I find this a lot easier to sympathize with than a purely self-serving vacation. And what you've said merely proves my basic point. Why didn't DCP go to visit with his children or grandchildren? Was it because he didn't want to take on the risk of getting infected? Well, hey: at least he can go gallivanting around in the Rocky Mountains!
Gallivanting around the Rockies can be a low risk activity, but unfortunately having family visit is not. I sympathize with people wanting to get family together, but it is a lot more risky than RVing in the Rockies. DCP is safer doing that and keeping in contact with family through phone or video than having family fly in like MG is doing. Not that he can't do some things to make the visit safer for everyone.
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Jersey Girl »

Lemmie wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:59 pm
Putting life on hold is exactly what is being asked, in order to save lives.
Lemmie simply nails it here.

Are the airlines operating? Yes.
Are the hotels/lodges in CO open to at least 50% capacity? Yes.

Are we being asked to stay home? YES.

Enough already. :rolleyes:
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Themis wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:14 pm
Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:30 pm

I find this a lot easier to sympathize with than a purely self-serving vacation. And what you've said merely proves my basic point. Why didn't DCP go to visit with his children or grandchildren? Was it because he didn't want to take on the risk of getting infected? Well, hey: at least he can go gallivanting around in the Rocky Mountains!
Gallivanting around the Rockies can be a low risk activity, but unfortunately having family visit is not. I sympathize with people wanting to get family together, but it is a lot more risky than RVing in the Rockies. DCP is safer doing that and keeping in contact with family through phone or video than having family fly in like MG is doing. Not that he can't do some things to make the visit safer for everyone.
Themis:

I appreciate your dissection of the moral relativism of people's choices during the pandemic. Still, I'm curious (and I realize that I am asking you to speculate): why do *you* think that Dr. Peterson chose to go on a vacation during this pandemic? Don't you think that the motivation will have a bearing on the relative morality of that decision? I mean, doing something to be close to loved ones is different from doing something just because you are bored, or because you're tired of the "lockdown," no? And even family visits can be conducted safely, right? What if he and Mrs. Peterson had RV'ed out to wherever their children lived, and done a socially distant visit? I.e., masks, traveling via RV (and I've seen no evidence--none whatsoever--that this was the way that the Colorado trip was conducted), quarantining for 14 days, and then having meals 6 feet apart, etc.?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Jersey Girl wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:41 pm
Lemmie wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:59 pm
Putting life on hold is exactly what is being asked, in order to save lives.
Lemmie simply nails it here.

Are the airlines operating? Yes.
Are the hotels/lodges in CO open to at least 50% capacity? Yes.

Are we being asked to stay home? YES.

Enough already. :rolleyes:
I find it hard to disagree with this.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Oddly enough he links to this article regarding wearing masks - from his blog and with this segue, “ It’s a relief to see some sanity on this subject”:

“Mask-Wearing and the Common Good”

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/m ... term=third

“ Though Americans of all political stripes have by and large embraced masking policies, there’s an aggressively pro-masking contingent on the Left, composed primarily of the sorts of progressives who likely have been glowering at you for sitting several feet away from a couple friends in your backyard or for failing to wear a mask while walking from the grocery store to your car.

By and large, these are the same progressives who loudly defend legal elective abortion — what they call “the right to choose” — relying heavily on euphemistic slogans such as “my body, my choice.” Utterly forgotten is the second body, that of the unborn human being, which must be mutilated and discarded to accommodate the wishes of the first.

If we can understand the importance of mask-wearing policies that impose on some of us for the good of the whole — policies that infringe on some aspects of our individual autonomy so as to prevent harm to others — surely we can understand a policy that curbs autonomy at the point where it involves taking another human being’s life.”

Huh?

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by I have a question »

mentalgymnast wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:32 am
My wife and I have family flying in today. We haven’t put life on hold. Are we being careful, wearing a mask, etc.? Of course. And so are our kids and grandchildren as they’re coming to visit.
I'm interested in understanding how you justify this to yourself. The advice is to avoid non essential travel, so how have you rationalised within your family to ignore this advice?

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by moksha »

I have a question wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 3:18 am
I'm interested in understanding how you justify this to yourself.
The justification is laid out in the hymn, "Do what you want and pretend the consequences will not follow".
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Gadianton »

Themis: "I suspect Scratch would criticize little to none someone who is a well known non-believer."

Sure Themis, but your comment is misleading. Scratch is a student of the apologists. He would probably criticize little to none many well-known believers publicly for the same thing, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have a problem with it. That the media doesn't put a story up for every American who does the same bad thing Trump does, doesn't make them hypocritical. If they hold a double-standard to different presidents, then that would be concerning. Likewise, if an apologist rose to notoriety and took the movement in the direction Prof. Scratch approved of, but then went on a string of vacations during coronavirus and he turned a blind eye, then that would be a problem.

"I sympathize with people wanting to get family together, but it is a lot more risky than RVing in the Rockies."

Hold the phone - RV? Hotel with room service and and kitchen.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Themis »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:48 pm
Themis:

I appreciate your dissection of the moral relativism of people's choices during the pandemic. Still, I'm curious (and I realize that I am asking you to speculate): why do *you* think that Dr. Peterson chose to go on a vacation during this pandemic?
Probably the same reason we all do. Not all vacation decisions during this pandemic are equal when it comes to risk. Going to a busy beach is probably a risky choice, while sight seeing and hiking low density trails would be low risk.
Don't you think that the motivation will have a bearing on the relative morality of that decision? I mean, doing something to be close to loved ones is different from doing something just because you are bored, or because you're tired of the "lockdown," no? And even family visits can be conducted safely, right? What if he and Mrs. Peterson had RV'ed out to wherever their children lived, and done a socially distant visit? I.e., masks, traveling via RV (and I've seen no evidence--none whatsoever--that this was the way that the Colorado trip was conducted), quarantining for 14 days, and then having meals 6 feet apart, etc.?
I don't see the difference, and we don't know if he already has been doing things with the family. He went on a trip from Utah to Colorado to see nature. This is an activity that I believe is allowed, and one that can be done quite safely if done right. I don't know if he did, but until we have that information we cannot reasonably determine irresponsibility. If DCP can RV out to see children and do it safely why could he not do the same out in Nature? I am also not aware of what mandated rules may be in place for traveling between Utah and Colorado.
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Themis »

Gadianton wrote:
Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:43 am
Sure Themis, but your comment is misleading. Scratch is a student of the apologists. He would probably criticize little to none many well-known believers publicly for the same thing, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have a problem with it. That the media doesn't put a story up for every American who does the same bad thing Trump does, doesn't make them hypocritical. If they hold a double-standard to different presidents, then that would be concerning. Likewise, if an apologist rose to notoriety and took the movement in the direction Prof. Scratch approved of, but then went on a string of vacations during coronavirus and he turned a blind eye, then that would be a problem.
I think he is being unduly harsh without enough information on his activities. I just doubt a little he would think the same of someone else. Trump does a crap load of bad things, but those who spend their much of their time attacking him usually will attack Trump on even the small things they wouldn't care about if someone else did the same. We sometimes get carried away with those we view as the enemy and I think that is what is going on here.
Hold the phone - RV? Hotel with room service and and kitchen.
Recreational vehicle. It can allow you to bring your home with you, which means one does not have to stay in a hotel.
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

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What it comes down to for me is what does "taking it seriously" mean to Dr. P? He is a public figure with followers and so has a responsibility to explain his actions. He has had many blog posts excoriating people for not "taking covid-19 seriously," quoting Sam LeFevre, the Utah head of epidemiology, approving Mr. LeFevre's comments and disagreeing with those who give a little push back, equating them with conspiracy theorists. This would seem to put Dr. P on the end of the spectrum of those who wouldn't want to venture out to the rockies in an RV. Yet he is doing so, publicly. Is this like the story of Joseph Smith giving a sermon on the word of wisdom, then deliberately riding down the middle of the street smoking a cigar? Is the passive aggressive Mormon showing his head here? Is this being done publicly to bring him attention along the lines of his victimology narrative he loves, knowing there would be a reaction here? Or is this within the circle of "taking it seriously" for Dr. P?

Dr. P, since you won't allow me to ask you this question on your blog, please let us know your thinking. You are in the public arena, have assumed a leadership role, and owe your acolytes, at least, an explanation of how a vacation corresponds to "taking this seriously." Vacationing seems to be at odds with your prior posts that dig at some of the Trump supporters that read your blog who aren't "taking this seriously." So, please explain.
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Re: Why is Dan Peterson Vacationing During a Pandemic?

Post by Gadianton »

"Recreational vehicle. It can allow you to bring your home with you, which means one does not have to stay in a hotel."

Is there evidence he''s utilizing an RV for this trip? Pandemic concerns aside, I'll be impressed if he's touring in an RV. I know guys with RVs, and they are a hell of a lot of work. If he's capable of the effort required to keep up an RV, even if it's rented and he's just keeping it clean and able to drive it and know what to watch for should it have a problem, then I'd be a little bit impressed.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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