Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

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iwanttotalk
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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:55 pm
iwanttotalk wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:06 pm
Your’s in an interesting comment because it deliniates the common milleu of anti Mormon boards. Which i might add is very much the byproduct of hollywood propaganda propagated by the famous athiests like Sagan.
This seems a bit like crazy talk, since you forgot to include Grigori Rasputin and Vlad the Impaler.
Gaslighting really? Hollywood would never engage in social engineering.... a crazy idea exactly like your allusions to a belief in black magic and vampires says the guy who uses words like “Nuero-Linguistic Programing.”

honorentheos wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:49 pm
When I was elementary school age, a friend and I would often ride our bikes to a small pizza place that had a small video arcade in it. We'd drop a five and exchange our hard earned time converted to money into a currency that only had value at that particular pizza joint. Then we'd spend the tokens on games. Sometimes we'd grab a pizza, other times we just went there to get out of the heat and play the new games they brought in. Depending on how the day went we might have to leave before the tokens were gone and we'd have to keep them for next time or they'd be worthless.

I tend to think growing up into adulthood in the Mormon church had an exchange rate of time-to-social capital not unlike exchanging something of liquid value (time) for something that has almost no value anywhere but the LDS church. I think a lot of people who end up leaving also end up with loose Mormon-social currency tokens in their pockets that represent a lot of time that they can't use elsewhere. So a message board like this becomes places where some of those tokens can be dropped. A few people become social contacts beyond board discussions, resulting in the conversion of those Mormon time tokens into new social connections that have little to do with Mormonism, and the social economics of the message board evolves.
Yeah i agree. Its a good analogy. I think exmos get stuck in a world where they are neither gentile nor Mormon and their social currency and values system are not only worthless but often a detriment.

I can’t count how often dispositevly “Mormon” moral values effect my adult life. They wouldn't exist in me if not for Mormonism and have made living a modern life difficult.

I like thinking different. (Because it gives a new world view). One of the things i did was try and read the bible as if i new nothing about religion. Obviously this is an impossible task for someone like me who has read it 20 times and was raised in the church.
But after a long time and age i came to understand the bible in a totally foreign way to the paradigm the church teaches.

It made me realize almost everything i was taught about the bible was worthless. It was a kind of sophisticated circular logic meant to trap participants in a particular world view. A worldview which is not particulary worthwhile. Its facile both moraly and philisopically.

But at the end of the day. I recognize my Mormon social capital is worthless. I lost my 5 bucks. I don't think “im gonna get every last penny of worth from this worthless dross”.

Im of the opinion that clinging to an outmoded system is harmful. You need to be both feet in, or both feet out. But that's just my two cents. (I get peoples circumstances are different. For example I don't live in Utah)

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Gadianton »

iwanttotalk: "and rather said. Scrupulosity is an interesting phenominon. Do you think it applies here?

Actually, you said, "But i think many have a variation of scrupulosity. They are obsessed with their “guilt”. They do anti-Mormonism not as a transition, but as a penance."

And my response above is to the position that you took here.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Dr LOD »

iwanttotalk wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:18 pm
I put this on this board. If i was wrong please move it.

I was on neworder Mormon over 10 years ago.
And most of the people there then, are still there now.
Cwald, moshka, and many more. There was a lesbian who was “abused” and litterally everything she wrote was some outlandish misinterpretation of doctrine through a feminist critical theory lens. It was actual obvious strawmanning which had no basis in logic or reality. (I didn't include her name for the reason that i think she is a bit touched and is nothing more than an example of the psychology.)

When the site went down (new order Mormon) these hyperusers took over and banned everyone who didn’t follow their very limited view of things. I believe cwald was banned as were many others. (More about this later)

This brings me to my point. There is a mental illness called “SCRUPULOSITY” which is kind of like religious OCD. It affects 7% of the population. It makes religion painful. They always feel unworthy and undergo extreme penenance and ritual to find “peace” which never comes.

After reading dozens of people writing litterally the exact same things over and over again over the course of 12 or so years, their complaints all seem the same. Obsessive fixation on certain elements.

Like i get it. The translation is bad. The history has holes etc. money, abuse, power. (im here I've heard it all)

But the fixation is the curious part. Normal people use anti Mormon sites for a few months or a year then move on. These hyper users never leave. Which means they 1) are paid 2) are supremely dedicated 3) have a mental issue compelling them.

Scrupulosity is a mental condition that makes a person take religion “too litterally” they always feel like they are unworthy or being punished etc. they become obsessed with it. With purity and unworthyness and confession.

Of course these feelings of guilt in a person cause a reaction. I wonder if severe anti- Mormonism isn't one of them. Since they cannot “unnaccept their guilt before god” they perpetually fight their conception of god which in this case is the “LDS church”.

They want to argue their way out of it. Which is an “easy” process for normal exmos but an impossible task for those with scrupulosity. Like a schizophrenic trying to loose his tails. They never go away because whereever he is, there they are too.
The behavior you are trying to point out as ODC, and Scrupulosity would better be described as PTSD type of reactions or behaviors. A faith transition out of a high demand religion will lead to psychological trauma. In addition to the realization of the past traumas one experienced in the religion coming to realization. Scrupulosity is a behavior that one sees within the religion.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

Gadianton wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:34 pm
Smokey: "and rather said. Scrupulosity is an interesting phenominon. Do you think it applies here?

Actually, you said, "But i think many have a variation of scrupulosity. They are obsessed with their “guilt”. They do anti-Mormonism not as a transition, but as a penance."

And my response above is to the position that you took here.
Supercilious. Nice character you have there.

The title ends in a question mark....
nothing like the dunning kruger effect.

Ohhh and calling me smokey. Because you can't into reading comprehension. Not my fault bro.grasping at straws to cover your own mistake. Sad.
Dr LOD wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 5:41 pm

The behavior you are trying to point out as ODC, and Scrupulosity would better be described as PTSD type of reactions or behaviors. A faith transition out of a high demand religion will lead to psychological trauma. In addition to the realization of the past traumas one experienced in the religion coming to realization. Scrupulosity is a behavior that one sees within the religion.
I know scrupulosiry is characterized by being within the religion. The point was that a very similar mechanism seems to operate with super users of anti Mormon sites.

You call it trauma. Fine then where are the 7 stages of grief and the moving on. If someone talked about their ex girlfriend for 15 years it would be disturbing.

Aka abnormal psychology.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Dr Exiled »

iwanttotalk:

Assuming Mormonism is fraud (sincere as Vogel posits or malicious), shouldn't we warn others? People find this board, questioners find this board, you think it is worth your time to engage this board, so shouldn't one want to spread the news that Mormonism is fraud when there is an audience, however small? Isn't that our duty?
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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:49 pm
It looks like jskains is still reading and failing to understand.
Huh. I had wondered what became of that potato-faced loser. (Just kidding. Welcome back, Josh!)
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:05 pm
iwanttotalk:

Assuming Mormonism is fraud (sincere as Vogel posits or malicious), shouldn't we warn others? People find this board, questioners find this board, you think it is worth your time to engage this board, so shouldn't one want to spread the news that Mormonism is fraud when there is an audience, however small? Isn't that our duty?
Morals. What a Mormon viewpoint you take. How neo christian. Its out “moral duty” to help people.

Have you read nichomanchean ethics? Spinoza kant neiztche? Hitler moa lenin?

Why do you have a duty to save a fool from his folly?

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Kishkumen »

I have not read Moa. Who is Moa?

Pio Moa?

"Por qué el Frente Popular perdió la Guerra Civil"?
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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Dr Exiled »

iwanttotalk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:30 am
Dr Exiled wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:05 pm
iwanttotalk:

Assuming Mormonism is fraud (sincere as Vogel posits or malicious), shouldn't we warn others? People find this board, questioners find this board, you think it is worth your time to engage this board, so shouldn't one want to spread the news that Mormonism is fraud when there is an audience, however small? Isn't that our duty?
Morals. What a Mormon viewpoint you take. How neo christian. Its out “moral duty” to help people.

Have you read nichomanchean ethics? Spinoza kant neiztche? Hitler moa lenin?

Why do you have a duty to save a fool from his folly?
Empathy. That's where my duty comes from. I feel empathy toward fellow human beings and don't want to see them needlessly suffer at the hands of charlatans or by those who mistakenly support a charlatan long since dead.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:40 am

Empathy. That's where my duty comes from. I feel empathy toward fellow human beings and don't want to see them needlessly suffer at the hands of charlatans or by those who mistakenly support a charlatan long since dead.
“ 12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.”

As i said how pedestrian and Mormon/ neo-christian. Nothing more than propaganda.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by moksha »

Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm
Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/
The queen of NoM
“Check out Asatru. It is similar to Wicca in that it is a European pagan religion, but doesn't have some of Wicca's problematic aspects, according to my Asatru high priestess daughter. She went from Mormon to Wiccan to Asatru. It is the Norse version and I think the preservation/restoration has been better. But, then I don't really know that much about Wicca, so I can't give specifics on what is different.”

Im not super interested interested in the Mormon religion anymore. It was just fascinating that a new age Mormon board was co-opted into a devil worshiping cult whose main premise unironically seemed to be the total satanic inversion of Mormonism: feminist leadership, homosexuality, and of course devil worship.

I was raised in California. So I’ve been around the “tolerant” crybullies my whole life. That place is run by malignant narcissists who can’t tollerare criticism.

As for for why i came back? I was completing my philisophical ethics when i rejoined NoM after my 10 year hiatus. You lot didn't remember me, but i remebered you all. Internet culture itself is toxic and ironically it promotes the most toxic people to be its leadership which is what happened to NoM “2.0”. The patients of the assylum took it over when the original owner let it slip. The “super users”.

It happens all the time. Its called entryism. When an organization is infiltrated and taken over by a cohort of ideologues. Its how a group of transexuals came to run many prominent “feminist” forums, and why JK Rawlings was harrased for not being “tolerant enough, and how the President of the United States has his tweets censored.

Im not really on board with your “enlightened Utopia” you all seem so hellbent on creating through psychological manipulation.

I just wanted to test my ethical paradigm against my starting point Religion. My point was to invert the nature of your psychological structure until it snapped.

However, i was dumbfounded to discover that it was not a group of ex Mormons there, but rather a new age cult whose whole construct seemed to be built around feeding the narcissitic supply of the dullards who infested the place.

It was quite impossible not to get banned from there. All i had to do was call a spade a spade. Just an ounce of truth an everyone had paroxysms of grief and outrage. Ohhh my the hand wringing because i hadn't bowed to the woman devil herself by daring to contradict her obvioulsy factually and logically errouneous assertions.

don't worry about me. Worry about yourself that you can with such vigor imbibe the swill they peddle.

Mormon writes a letter to his son Moroni, telling him about the terrible conquest of the Lamanites, the degeneracy of both people, and prays for the grace of God. ☼ “Behold, I am laboring with them continually; and when I speak the word of God with sharpness they tremble and anger against me; and when I use no sharpness they harden their hearts against it; wherefore, I fear lest the Spirit ofthe Lord hath ceased striving with them.”

It is odd how the book of Mormon seems logically to be so made up and yet it has so much predictive power. It is I admit, a paradox which i cannot solve.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm
Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/
You only think you are participating on a Mormon board. Did you see what got me “banned”? They deleted it to protect “delicate eyes” as they all called me a Nazi and worse.

Here are the collected resposes to their brutalizations
“"Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear” george orwell

I grew up in san francisco. You know the place. Its a place where they lined up 8 chinese americans kids who escaped the oppresive totalitarian grasp of the chinese fascist state and held struggle sessions because they had not sufficiently conformed to the ideology of the soverign state of California. I myself was the focal point of struggle sessions organized by my teachers, though i did not at the time know what they were. I was marched to the front of my classroom and accused of every evil a human can posses. Labeled with every epithet. Described with ever component of disvirtue, And shown to my fellow students as a persona non grata. A person not to be. Anethema. I was 8 13 and 17. I never knew why i was continiously singled out for abuse. I was neither strident nor dissident. Although i must admit by 17 i was defiant. At a very young age i learned the survival mechanism of lies and conformance.

That may sound incredible to some of you, but my whole life has been lived on my knees as i saw the wholesale destruction of my home friend and family. Because you quickly learn in a place without freedom to succumb.

But im not a child. I wont be bullied into silence. I am now a man. If you want to threaten me silence me or kill me ill do it on my feet.

Soon every word out of your mouth must be a lie to conform with expectations. Barack obama is a savior, Trump is a baddie, etc etc etc ad infinitum ad naseum.

Of course the main source of their power is social violence. Anyone who disagrees with them is brutally silenced. In fact you must always display in the most sycophantic way your absolute agreement with them or they will dogpile you or attack you in anyway they can. They have exported this effective means of control worldwide with the internet. Pretty soon you too will all live in the socialist utopia of california.

The jackboot victims.

None of you will escape their purview. Even now the struggle session does not exist. You can't find it on goodle anymore. Places like this will also be gone. Anyone who challenges their moral leadership is always censored. They are and will be your only thought leaders.

I don't need to be here. It was never going to be a fair intilecutal
Exchange. In fact i was a member nearly a decade ago before the old site shuttered.

The same people then are the same people now. They sell the same lies as dilettante deprogrammers. Their 5 step deprogramming methodology is facile. It never answers the underlying mental manipulation that rendered one susceptable to religion in the first place. The mechanisms used for thought control are almost wholly untouched.

I came here to theory craft religion. To understand its mechanism and operations and what it means to be a believer in god. I find the work easier with foils to help in the pedagogical methods i use in autodidacticism. Books on subjects like this, if extant, are inaccessible.

Of course nothing has the power to offend more than truth. It is dangerous and tedious to ferret out in a world of overt censorship. Not disimilar from Mormonism in that regard. In a place where there is only one answer and all questions have a correct response and everything must be rated G and any heterodoxious thinking is shunned, truth is the first casualty.

that's why it is organized in that manner. It is no coincidence that the world is now being conformed to the same methodology.

None of them are “newordermormons”. They are totally out. many of them are what would be considered normal in san Francisco. Polyamourous wiccan LGBTQ vegan man hating femnazi socialist pagan preistesses. The emotional manipulation they use isn't about equality its about power. And once they have power they seek to control and conform every aspect of your life. They are less tolerant than the “white male opressors” they are overthrowing, just as the communists were more oppressive than the “capitalist oppressors” they overthrew.

And just like their models the communists, everything gets better every year as it gets noticably worse, and if you don't agree you might need some time in the relaxation camp to think about it.

You lot are visitors to the world of opression and doublethink. I was born in it. Molded by it. I am doublethink!
Anyway enjoy you path to enslavement. Its not about the destination, Its about the journey. Im out.
The response
The moderator team reviewed the post and decided there was too much ugliness to leave up on the board. We respect the right for people to have an opinion but will not tolerate hate. The internet has other places to go if you want to demonstrate your hatred for gay people. We at NOM choose love first.

Newme, since you have been warned before you will now be banned for 7 days. The next time will result in a permanent ban.

Iwanttotalk, consider this your first warning. NOM isn’t the right place for you if you are coming in angry only to stir the pot.
They’re not who you think they are. That place isn't authentic. I said nothing that wasn't an open admission. Take warning.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm
Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/

Nah bro. Im good. I wasn't banned for whatever bs they came up with. I got banned for calling them out. They are snakes. Wolves in sheeps clothing.

“Nice people”. Lul.

Only when their masks are on. Just like communists

“We believe in socialist workers paradise and equality and love!” As the smokestacks of moscow never stop burining the bodies of their victims and the mass graves never fill.

They aren't nice people. They are critical theory marxists working a double game using base and superstrucure to undercut initiates and indoctrinate them through the use of communist logic (yes it is a real thing).

He was gaslighting you. that's why they erased everything. Same way communists always erase the commision of their crimes.

I wasn't banned to go to a better place. (I can't believe someone would believe that obvious lie) i was banned because i pointed out what they were.

You don’t see it because ignorance is blindness. Only someone who sees beyond the potomkin villages can witness the true beauty and majesty of their ideology. Pyongyang from all outward apearances is a nice place. With freedom too!!! The democratic peoples republic of north korea!!!!

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm
Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/
Ohhh and you may if you’d like tell your friends their they did not hinder but rather accelerated my epistemology. They did not retrograde its creation but in their obtusity clarified its conclusion. Brava. I therefore owe them my graritude which i sadly cannot convey in person

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Analytics »

Hi iwanttotalk,

I don't know anything about psychology, nor do I know what "severe anti- Mormonism" even is, so I can't contribute much to the OP. I did notice, however, that you have replied to the same post by moksha four times (so far). As I said I'm not a psychologist, but this behavior doesn't come across as normal or healthy. Do you have a diagnosis for your own obsessive tendencies? Do you need help?
It’s relatively easy to agree that only Homo sapiens can speak about things that don’t really exist, and believe six impossible things before breakfast. You could never convince a monkey to give you a banana by promising him limitless bananas after death in monkey heaven.

-Yuval Noah Harari

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

moksha wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 pm
Iwanttotalk, did you ever take the administrator of NOM 2.0 suggestion that you try out the Mormon Dialogue and Discussions board? https://www.mormondialogue.org/
Ohhh and why I popped by?

The Mormon prophet issued a massive curse upon the united states of America in the last general conferance.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/04 ... clamation/

Apparently no one noticed. Or they don't understand Mormonism enough to recognize what it is.

I was unsurpirsed it was not here. Dun worry friend. I will leave not to return until something picks my interest. About once a year or so maybe.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

Analytics wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:24 pm
Hi iwanttotalk,

I don't know anything about psychology, nor do I know what "severe anti- Mormonism" even is, so I can't contribute much to the OP. I did notice, however, that you have replied to the same post by moksha four times (so far). As I said I'm not a psychologist, but this behavior doesn't come across as normal or healthy. Do you have a diagnosis for your own obsessive tendencies? Do you need help?
Moshka was just being passive aggresive. (that's a psychological term you can look up if you’d like). Passive aggressive is designed to produce outrage by being insulting while being “polite”.

I was never rude to him but he has without fail been alluding to some kind of mental defect i posses for merely wanting discuss something.

First by alluding my commentary was as grounded as
moksha wrote:
Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:55 pm
[quote=iwanttotalk post_id=<a href="tel:1232783">1232783</a> time=<a href="tel:1595444791">1595444791</a> user_id=19386]
Your’s in an interesting comment because it deliniates the common milleu of anti Mormon boards. Which i might add is very much the byproduct of hollywood propaganda propagated by the famous athiests like Sagan.


Moshka: “This seems a bit like crazy talk, since you forgot to include Grigori Rasputin and Vlad the Impaler.”
Rasputin and vlad are the characters upon which fictional demon monsters are premised (Dracula etc.) aka my beliefs are fantasy and delusion.

I don't owe him politeness which he does not reciprocate.

Much like your own pithy insuations of my “insanity”.
You don’t know what this place is.
Last edited by iwanttotalk on Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by iwanttotalk »

Double post.

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Gadianton »

"They aren't nice people. They are critical theory marxists working a double game using base and superstrucure to undercut initiates and indoctrinate them through the use of communist logic (yes it is a real thing)."

No it isn't. ; )
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Anti-mormonism just a byproduct of OCD?

Post by Dr Exiled »

iwanttotalk wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:19 am
Dr Exiled wrote:
Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:40 am

Empathy. That's where my duty comes from. I feel empathy toward fellow human beings and don't want to see them needlessly suffer at the hands of charlatans or by those who mistakenly support a charlatan long since dead.
“ 12 In everything, then, do to others as you would have them do to you. For this is the essence of the Law and the prophets.”

As i said how pedestrian and Mormon/ neo-christian. Nothing more than propaganda.
Is this supposed to be some sort of gotcha revelation? I guess you got me then. I feel for other people when they needlessly suffer like most Mormons, christians, buddhists, muslims, atheists, or agnostics do.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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