Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Gadianton
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Gadianton »

Professor Scratch,

Would it be fair to say that for "999 weeks" Wyatt has been answering his emails and posting the ones he likes to a blog on Fridays?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Peterson is merely practicing for his future "God thing," you know.... where he delegates all others to do the real work, while he gets the full credit and glory. He is destined for Elohim greatness!
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:30 pm
Professor Scratch,

Would it be fair to say that for "999 weeks" Wyatt has been answering his emails and posting the ones he likes to a blog on Fridays?
Well....I would prefer the slightly more precise observation that he's likely getting email attachments (or, heck: the authors just upload the whole files on Interpreter's site) and he picks the one he likes. But that's a distinction without a difference, and thus purely academic.

But something is very seriously going on, because this is Friday, and there has not been an announcement about new material posted to the "Mormon Interpreter" blog. How many weeks in a row has this been happening? Has the edifice at last begun to crumble? I mean, of course there was no "Thank you" for Allen Wyatt, but that's to be expected. But no mention of a new article? That's *highly* unusual. Bond....James Bond's prediction may at last be coming true.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Gadianton »

"Has the edifice at last begun to crumble? I mean, of course there was no "Thank you" for Allen Wyatt, but that's to be expected. But no mention of a new article? That's *highly* unusual. Bond....James Bond's prediction may at last be coming true."

Perhaps so, Professor. I recall the magnificent Dr. Suess story from my youth, Yertle the Turtle. I think if that story as an analogy holds, we both know who "a turtle names Max" is, and also know who "King Yertle" (oh marvelous he!) is.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Ha ha ha! What do you know? At the eleventh hour, mention of the new article has appeared. How badly did it hurt to have to do this in light of the latest "indignities"?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

On "Sic et Non," we're helpfully informed that "new items went up today on the website of the Interpreter Foundation." What interesting is that one of these items was partly authored by Dr. Peterson; so, he has no problem announcing his own stuff. Do you think there is any mention of or thanking of Allen Wyatt, though? No. Not a word.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Gadianton »

Do you think on weeks where they might come up short on a Friday article that they have a few "in reserve," pre-written by you-know-who?
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

All they have to do is regurgitate crap written a few years ago. It's their main method now isn't it? It's almost as predictable and bad as the Ensign had gotten to be....
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Hi, Allen.

Let's be honest here. I know you're reading this. That means that you've seen months' worth of documentation showing how little the Powers That Be at "Interpreter" value your work. Schlepping clear down from Wyoming just to deliver a hard copy of a book....during a pandemic? Either you are getting paid, or you are essentially a "lickspittle." What do you hope to gain here? This has no impact whatsoever on your eternal salvation. Do you really enjoy being the bespectacled, awkward "wienie" that they mock on live radio? C'mon, man. Grow a spine. Quit being a "slug." There are lots of people who would respect you more for stepping up and demanding the respect you deserve.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

it may very well be that we will be getting daily plugs for "Interpreter," with zero mention of Wyatt. Take this post from today, for example.

Day in and day out, for many years, "Sic et Non" has plugged "Interpreter" but has failed to thank the key person who has kept the thing running.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:14 pm
it may very well be that we will be getting daily plugs for "Interpreter," with zero mention of Wyatt. Take this post from today, for example.

Day in and day out, for many years, "Sic et Non" has plugged "Interpreter" but has failed to thank the key person who has kept the thing running.
That's Wyatt's fault. He has drank the kool aid that his reward is in heaven, I say let him suffer. Who actually cares? I realize this reflects on Peterson, but when you are on the road to Elohimhood, you have the righteous privilege of using others to get your glory. Wyatt is a rag to be used wiping the toilets with. His Elohim wreath of greatness will more than make up for his mere pittance of appreciation shown to him here. He really believes that and it makes him joyous beyond measure. So long as you brainwash the riff raff so your own earthly and heavenly glory is assured, to them, there is no problem. He has the priesthood and wears the sacred cotton of armor of God that is "bullet proof, fire proof, pretty much everything harmful proof," surely a man ought to be satisfied with all of those "blessings"!!!
Get back to work Wyatt!!! Peterson needs his earthly glory!!!!!!!!
Dr CamNC4Me
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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:26 pm
Wyatt is a rag to be used wiping the toilets with.
Wow. That is so incredibly depressing that I don't even know where to begin. It's like something out of Bukowski.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:34 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:26 pm
Wyatt is a rag to be used wiping the toilets with.
Wow. That is so incredibly depressing that I don't even know where to begin. It's like something out of Bukowski.
Not to Wyatt it isn't. To him whatever he is asked to do or say or not to say by his leaders and brethren, and without any acknowledgment whatsoever is celestial cheese cake to him, because they have brainwashed him into thinking great glory will be his in yonder heavens for his meagerly slave service taking his entire life here on earth. He may be the poop rag here, but as an exalted being, he will be, at last, taking a dump in a celestial toilet made of pure gold, like his street outside his 345,305,456 light years long mansion of glory. And that makes it all worth the stupid ____ (crap) he has to do here with no thanks, in order to stay valiant and be worthy of the great gold toilet in the sky.
Dr CamNC4Me
"Dr. Peterson and his Callithumpian cabal of BYU idiots have been marginalized by their own inevitable irrelevancy defending a fraud."

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

It's Friday, and as the Interpreter President so frequently puts it, "another new article has appeared in Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship." Of course, there was no mention at all of Allen Wyatt. This seems to happen every Friday, despite what Wyatt does for the organization.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Sure: pleas for more money are just fine and dandy. And as the proprietor and President writes, "The Interpreter Foundation is like a fountain or a spring. It produces steadily." And you would think that the person who, perhaps more than any other, helps to make that happen, would get an occasional "Thank you." But no, not this time. Indeed, I think that a few months have now gone by since the last public "thanks" for Allen Wyatt.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Dr Moore »

It's a strange observation Doctor Scratch. I couldn't say if you are on to some sort of hidden slight on Allen Wyatt or not. Has Allen Wyatt commented publicly, in any way, on the newly announced role-splitting?

Have you seen this post, which calls out a number of folks, including Allen Wyatt?
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... eport.html

Separately from Allen Wyatt, I draw attention to this introduction:
What follows is the letter that I sent out, toward the end of this past July, to many of the donors and volunteers who make the work of the Interpreter Foundation possible:
As one of Interpreter's recent and not insignificant donors, I'm obviously interested in tracking developments and disappointed that I did not receive a copy of the annual report letter. I have to ask: why not?

Public companies send annual reports, and guess what -- they send these annual report to every shareholder, whether the stake is a single share or a top 5 shareholder. More importantly, these annual reports are sent to shareholders without regard to public showings of support or criticism. Disclosure isn't selective or prejudicial. Good-faith organizations don't discriminate when it comes to official communications with constituents.

So my question is: why does the chairman of The Interpreter send an annual report to some donors, but not others? He absolutely, 100% has my email address. And I absolutely 100% donated a significant amount of money.

I can only speculate as to the meaning of this. I guess certain donors are easily forgotten, at the sole discretion of one person and his ego-sensitive perception of the donor's continuing loyalty.

Perhaps this would be a good time to remind the Chairman of his nearly uninterrupted and continuing failure to fulfill his paid-for promise. Dan Peterson promised to stop trash talking MormonDiscussions.com and to "pretty much ignore MormonDiscussions.com" in return for a very nice donation to Interpreter. It's all documented and he has acknowledged that promise in public.

And yet, months after he swore up and down that he intends to keep his word, he is STILL NOT keeping his word. WTF Dan!!!

It is frustrating in the extreme to engage a deal and be met with bad faith. It is another thing when someone gives you bad faith while claiming to be acting in good faith. Ahem -- that is called "lying." I can conclude only one thing, which is that Dan Peterson is simply unable to hold himself accountable. Achieving results in my "deal" with Dan Peterson is like dealing with Trumpish sociopathy.

And yes, I do still monitor Dan's online behavior. It is NOT remotely defensible for him to claim he is keeping his word. He acts in bad faith like it's a daily addiction, despite the fact that he is directly violating a contract that he himself eagerly engaged in. Puzzling and disturbing.

I'm surprised no one at BYU or the Interpreter has picked up on this yet or challenged Dr. Peterson to set a better example.

For the public record, here are samples from the most recent 2 pages of Disqus comments, each one an instance of Dan Peterson breaking his word. It's the same damn thing, and we are what 9 months along?

Dan, did you EVER intend to actually keep your promise? Or was it just another easily forgotten lie to further your personal ambitions?
Peterson wrote: a day ago
Given the character of the place whence you come, Moksha, the righteous-indignation-and-perpetual-scold schtick has long since lost its freshness and charm.

a day ago
This isn't your familiar message board. It's not all about personal defamation and slander here.

Aug. 20, 2020 (main post)
"Over at the Peterson Obsession Board..."

2 days ago
Precisely. And my implacable and obsessive critics at your message board almost certainly know this.
They simply don't care. The truth is not in them.

4 days ago
No, that's not "the real issue." It's an issue over at the Peterson Obsession Board. Yes, I grant you that. And it's the way that certain folks over at the POB like to frame it.

4 days ago
I realize, tavs/Charles, that that comment on Calvinism, from a quite spirited exchange that occurred several years ago, has been lovingly treasured and occasionally trotted out over on the Peterson Obsession Board.

4 days ago
I understand that the specimen you've shared here comes from the archive maintained at the Peterson Obsession Board.
Midgley wrote: 4 days ago
I am, of course, a mean, nasty brute--but not quite in the same category as Professor Peterson on the hate board.

4 days ago
The Peterson hate Board has, it seems, been looking for anything to discredit me, except engaging anything I have published...gemli, unlike those who have migrated to sic et non from the Peterson hate board, has never shown the hatred that some who come here to justify to apostasy to both themselves and others..
Kiwi wrote: 20 hours ago
Nevertheless, I doubt that there is, collectively, as much malice and willful ignorance among the lot of them as there is in the little coterie of haters for whom you speak.

2 days ago
I have no doubt that, back on Scumbag Central, the hate clique are all cheering lustily. They approve of lies, after all. But if that is the audience you are really performing for, I suggest you perform for them over there.

Saying and allowing all of this material at Sic et Non might feel good to Dan, but it violates Dan's contractual promise. Evidently what Dan means when he says "I keep my promises" is something different than what everyone else means by "keeping a promise." The evidence shows that for Dan Peterson it means something distorted, as in "keep" out of mind and segmented away from any notion of personal accountability. Dan, you're on thin ice at this point. I'm going to take another step at escalation after seeing all of this ____ still showing up on Sic et Non after so many months.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Dr. Moore,

I think it's time to request your donation be refunded to you in whole. I would give Dan/Interpreter 10 days to refund your money. That's more than a reasonable time.

The legal lesson for Dan and the Interpreter to learn from this that when a 501(c)(3) solicits donations, such solicitation must clearly note (in writing) that if the intended use of, and conditions for the solicited donation is not feasible, the donation will be used for the organization’s general operations, or for capital projects not yet specified. Without such clear indicators noted (in writing) to the donor, the Interpreter is legally obligated to satisfy any condition of the gift. Here, the condition was that Dan wasn't allowed to mention Mormondiscussions.com.

Dan has obviously disregarded such condition, and legally must refund the donation to the Dr. Moore.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

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Can anyone imagine having Dr. P as a legal client? It would turn into a cya exercise as Dr. P continually refused to follow advice while angling to blame the his lawyer for his own obtuseness.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Dr Moore »

Just to be clear, what I am doing here is not "dragging Dan's name through the mud" as he likes say. He does a lot to blame shift, to the evil other person who is unfairly accusing Dan of something he didn't do. That is not this. What I am doing clearly and publicly noting, once again, that Dan Peterson has utterly failed to live up to his contracted commitment in a private fund raising contract for Interpreter. Period.

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Lemmie »

So, Peterson’s banning moksha and tavs because.... he’s mad at dr. Moore?
Peterson > moksha. 2 hours ago

I'm afraid, Moksha, that I'm going to have to bid you adieu. I genuinely wish you well.
Your comments here, which (you surely have to admit) have mostly been devoted to chiding certain other commenters on this blog and to jabbing LDS "apologetics" and the beliefs and culture of the Latter-day Saints more generally, have inescapably been received in the context of the place on the Web from which you come. That has tainted them, and you. And it has provoked division, and evoked a spirit here that I heartily dislike.
Most recently, my integrity has come under attack because an evidently well-heeled participant on your message board made a substantial donation to the Interpreter Foundation some time back on the understanding that I would attempt to dampen the fires of hostility toward that message board on the part of its longstanding targets (who, by the way, continue to be victims of daily vituperation and defamation there). He mistakenly believes me to have reneged on that understanding, and publicly accuses me of dishonesty. I dislike being called dishonest.
I've previously shown the exit from Sic et Non to at least two other people from your message board, and I believe that doing so had a discernible salutary impact on the level of discourse here in Sic et Non's comments section.. Now I'm doing the same to you and to tavs/Charles.
I'm more sorry about your departure, I'll admit, than I am about that of tavs/Charles. But I regret both.
However, I believe that things will improve here in your absence, with this blog and your message board as strictly separated from one another as I can make them. My goal, as it is the donor's, is to reduce criticism, even mention, of your message board here to a bare minimum. (I ask the cooperation of commenters here to that end.)
Of course, under the indulgent eye of that one-time Interpreter donor, you -- and others, including the donor himself -- will still be entirely free to chide us, deride us, mock us, criticize us, misrepresent us, denounce us, and lament our wickedness back at your message board, where doing so is a principal daily focus. So it's not as if you'll be completely muzzled.
Again, I wish you well.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... 5043269038
Wow Peterson reads this board pretty constantly and obsessively. Gives new meaning to the phrase:

“Peterson’s Obsession: Board.”

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Re: Did Allen Wyatt Get 'Demoted' at Interpreter?

Post by Dr Moore »

I did not trick or somehow fool Dan Peterson into making the arrangement. He eagerly accepted it from a selection of options.

My obligation was to make a donation to the Interpreter Foundation.
Dan's obligation was to effect a long-term behavior change at Sic et Non, as per the terms of our previous failed $10,000 deal, by not blanket trash-talking MormonDiscussions.com and moderating his comments section for the same.

That's it. Silly deal? Maybe, but that's irrelevant. I agreed to it and Dan agreed to it.

Also, per the above comment to Moksha, Dan seems to object with a complaint that implies unfairness. I'd like to clarify that for the record. Not only did Dan Peterson never ask for me to attempt a behavior coup at MormonDiscussions.com (something I couldn't do if I wanted to), he explicitly told me that he expected no such thing would ever occur. Here is our exchange, word for word, in which I attempted to clarify expectations of our arrangement.

Black text = mine
Red text = Peterson's
Sept. 24, 2019

1) Do you believe that this board vs board decorum exercise — more civility and less contempt — has merit as a primary long-term objective?

Yes. Of course. I’m nothing remotely like the malignant monster that certain people at MormonDiscussions.com have conjured up over the past fifteen years. Nor is the tone of my blog, as such, remotely like that of MormonDiscussions.com.

2) Do you believe that with fewer personal attacks comes a richer and broader field of visitors looking to safely, yet openly, discuss and learn about the issues?

Probably.

3) Do you believe that many people look to tone and tenor, as much as to content, for solace when wrestling to understand the harder issues in Mormonism?

Likely.

4) Do you believe that your leadership by example can affect change by transforming the learning experience for people on both sides of these challenging -- and emotional -- debates?

Unfortunately, no. I tried to defend myself on MormonDiscussions.com for several years. I finally left, quite a few years ago now. I was told that, if I went away, they would lose interest in me. I didn’t believe that, and it has proved completely false. The current rather frenzied attempts to scuttle our deal, paralleled by ongoing attacks and denigration directed at me, are precisely what I anticipated, and I don’t believe that they’ll stop. They’ve gone on for a decade and a half.

5) Do you believe many more people are watching what you do than are watching what happens at Shades' message boards?

Yes, it’s likely that there are. Happily.
See point 4. It seems Dan took my comment literally and answered literally, in terms that cannot be interpreted any other way than that he viewed this as a futile exercise vis a vis how certain individuals at MormonDiscussions.com criticize/attack Dr. Peterson in the future. He expected no such thing. So why does he attempt to hold his part of our deal hostage over that? It's disingenuous in the extreme. Dan expected nothing at MormonDiscussions.com to change, and yet he still made the deal with me -- eagerly. Now he's spent almost 9 months trying to wriggle his way out of his obligation by smuggling in a hypocrisy term, that somehow MormonDiscussions.com has to change before he will change. NO, NO, AND NO, AND THAT WAS ENTIRELY THE POINT TO BEGIN WITH, DAN.

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