New Interpreter Hit-Piece

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Dr Exiled
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Dr Exiled »

Some good news here. At least it looks like the walls are continuing to crack around the church's historical gaslighting experiment that was run by E. Packer, patron saint of FARMS and Interpreter.
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Part of me feels uncomfortable seeing (in the Witness film) or reading anything by Susan Easton Black. To me it's rather obvious there is quite a bit of cognitive decline, possibly due to her advanced age. This is not the Susan Easton Black I knew years ago.

Anyone who was familiar with the younger version of Susan Easton Black will most likely be surprised listening to her now. It feels like the Mopologists have no problem exploiting these vulnerable individuals and watching them crap away their reputation and legacy. Just ask Louis Midgley and Sic et Non.
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Dr LOD »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:35 pm
It feels like the Mopologists have no problem exploiting these vulnerable individuals and watching them crap away their reputation and legacy. Just ask Louis Midgley and Sic et Non.
I have been wondering that too. If I was in that situation I would hope those that I consider friends would offer more protection than I see happening with SEB and LCM.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Stem »

Getting old is tough. I"m giving them passes as individuals. I can't imagine staring down the day til my own demise. If something unforeseen doesn't hit me, I imagine I'll be ready to say all sorts of things, perhaps hoping that which is ending isn't the end. If someone invites me to spout off on any old topic of my past, relying on my past legacy, perhaps, hoping to incite click bait, I'd do it.

Forgive them, Jesus, they don't know what they're doing.

All I know is this little piece in response to a book is sad, particularly as it's pretending to be some sort of intellectual exercise. Maybe it's merely a symptom of advanced age, fears, and disappointments. It's a piss poor excuse for publication. Now if she added these thoughts on Sic Et Non's discussion board she'd have found an appropriate home for such comments. Or maybe that's how we should view the Interpreter anyway--a comment section of unvetted, unfettered thoughts.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Holy Ghost »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:41 pm
This part of Easton-Black’s piece is practically self-parody:
I was pleased The Interpreter Foundation invited me to review Kingdom of Nauvoo. The promise of writing a short review gave me reason to pause from my life’s ventures to read yet another book on my favorite travel destination. I saw myself reading the works of a new, rising historian—a budding Richard Bushman, in his own right. Park, [Page 108]having a publisher that requires a literary agent, captured my attention. His publisher, Liveright, is a division of the W. W. Norton & Company of New York City, a publishing house owned by its employees and known for its anthologies and textbooks, not for studies of Joseph Smith and the merits of Mormonism. A professor away from Utah and a publisher whose publications are not readily seen in the Deseret Book or Seagull bookstores looked like a huge win to me.

Putting aside the cares of the day, I blocked out an afternoon and sat down to read. I was delighted to find that Benjamin Park has a flair for writing. His words are accessible to scholar and lay reader alike, a rare talent indeed.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just think: in a brief review, which she obviously committed to write as a brief review, she actually devoted some of that brief review to telling you she had committed to write a brief review and that she “put aside the cares of the day” and “blocked out an afternoon” ( No, please! This is too funny!) to read Park’s book.
It's so self-aware, I wonder: is she DCP's daughter?
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. Without it you have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate, Physics

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Gadianton »

Kishkumen wrote:This is an instance in which the very publication of the review reveals the existence of a cluster of problems that urgently demand addressing. Honestly, I feel badly for Dr. Easton-Black. She has been very poorly advised by people she considers her friends, or at least her allies.
Absolutely. We've seen this more than once. The Interpreter staff are willing to let people wreck their reputations if it means promoting junk science or getting digs in at 'apostates'.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »

On a side note, may I just say how much I appreciate you guys here?

The author of the Interpreter review has been referred to here as Black, Dr. Easton-Black, Doctor Susan Black etc., all proper terms, and maybe once as Sister Black by someone who knows her well, which made it all the more jarring to read the comments on Interpreter, where so far she has been referred to as “Sister Black” EIGHTEEN TIMES. As Dr. or Doctor Black? NOT ONCE. Benjamin Park is referred to as Dr. Park nine times, and as Brother Park once.

I had forgotten how intrusive that double standard is in the LDS environment.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by moksha »

I was pleased The Interpreter Foundation invited me to review Kingdom of Nauvoo. The promise of writing a short review gave me reason to pause from my life’s ventures to read yet another book on my favorite travel destination.
Hope she still has time to catch a rerun of Anthony Bourdain.
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Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Everybody Wang Chung »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:33 pm
FPR absolutely destroys Easton-Black’s pseudo-review:

http://faithpromotingrumor.com/2020/07 ... YWobAefbMo
From the comments, Allen “The Slug” Wyatt writes:
Sister Black’s paper was no exception and was peer reviewed by highly qualified scholars.
What?! This horrible review was actually peer-reviewed by “highly qualified scholars?” Who could have possibly peer-reviewed this piece of dookie? Michael Hogan? John Pack Lambert? Ideeho? Tom Merrill? Raymond Swenson?

Well, I guess this speaks volumes about the quality of The Interpreter’s peer-review process.
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Simon Southerton »

After reading such an inept hatchet job of a review, it seems the proprietor of the Interpreter doesn't really care about the quality of his journal. Maybe that's because he knows hardly anyone cares about their work. We've had 50 years of limited geography apologetics and you never hear it being talked about at church. We've had 50 years of missing scroll lies and most members know nothing about it.

How depressing to devote your life to advancing ideas that most Mormons ignore.
LDS apologetics --> "It's not the crime, it's the cover-up, which creates the scandal."
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »

Allen Wyatt
JULY 13, 2020 AT 2:31 PM
Nice try scratchy. You know better than anyone that every single article is peer reviewed by experts in their filed, usually by Ph.D.’s. You know, as in reviewed by real scholars.
Real scholars, Wyatt?
Sister Black’s paper was no exception and was peer reviewed by highly qualified scholars.
Any chance any of your "real scholars" referred to Doctor Black by her scholarly title? Or is it just you, Allen? Are you the only one who can't use her proper title? Do you think calling her "sister" instead of "doctor" is respectful? Its not, Allen. Grow up and act like an adult. Treat adult women with scholastic titles the same way you treat men with scholastic titles. You know, like real peer-reviewed journals do.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:29 pm
Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:33 pm
FPR absolutely destroys Easton-Black’s pseudo-review:

http://faithpromotingrumor.com/2020/07 ... YWobAefbMo
From the comments, Allen “The Slug” Wyatt writes:
Sister Black’s paper was no exception and was peer reviewed by highly qualified scholars.
What?! This horrible review was actually peer-reviewed by “highly qualified scholars?” Who could have possibly peer-reviewed this piece of dookie? Michael Hogan? John Pack Lambert? Ideeho? Tom Merrill? Raymond Swenson?

Well, I guess this speaks volumes about the quality of The Interpreter’s peer-review process.
Interesting. I seem to recall Wyatt or Peterson stating in the past that book reviews in the Interpreter were NOT peer reviewed. Now, suddenly, Wyatt insists this book review was? I wonder why?

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Gadianton »

Where was that quote about "scratchy"? I didn't see it in the comments.

Yes, they did say in the past that Allen was reviewing most of the stuff himself. can't remember where.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »

Gadianton wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:10 pm
Where was that quote about "scratchy"? I didn't see it in the comments.

Yes, they did say in the past that Allen was reviewing most of the stuff himself. can't remember where.
In the Comments at the FPR link Everybody Wang Chung gave:
http://faithpromotingrumor.com/2020/07/ ... YWobAefbMo

I have a question
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by I have a question »

Her peer-reviewed hit piece is being almost universally ruined within the Interpreter comments section.
For a review that makes quite a bit out of claims that Park’s “documentation is infrequent and causes the reader to search for sources to quotation marks,” Sister Black was unable to provide even a single example from the book to back up that charge. That seems irresponsible at best, and hypocritical at worst. Perhaps she’s not as interested in the truth as she claims.
Hoist with her own petard.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »


Allen Wyatt
JULY 13, 2020 AT 9:00 PM
It is very simple scratchy. I know it will be hard but try your best to follow along if you can.

Those asked by me to review papers submitted for the Interpreter have scholarly expertise in one or more areas related to the topic. Thus, if a paper has to do with Old Testament the reviewers will have expertise in that subject area. If a paper requires expertise in multiple areas, then I generally employ more reviewers, each with a different expertise area.

Over the years I have used professional historians, psychologists, chemists, engineers, religion professors, linguists, archaeologists, and experts from many other disciplines do peer review.

Sister Black’s paper was no exception and was peer reviewed by highly qualified scholars.

scratchy, try as you might but you will never convince anyone that the Interpreter isn’t scholarly or peer reviewed according to the highest academic and professional standards.

http://faithpromotingrumor.com/2020/07/ ... YWobAefbMo
The “highest academic and professional standards”? Wyatt has got to be kidding. The greatest guesser Bayesian fiasco puts the lie to that all by itself.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Lemmie »


Sister Black’s paper was no exception and was peer reviewed by highly qualified scholars.
Wyatt contradicts himself. Apparently DOCTOR Black’s book review was an exception. From the Interpreter website:
Peer Review – Allen Wyatt

....There are a small number of essays appearing in the Interpreter that are not peer reviewed. For instance, it makes little sense to arrange a peer review for a first-person essay, such as those that may appear in Interpreter around Christmas or Easter. In addition, book reviews may be evaluated solely by the Interpreter book review committee, although some may also go through a formal peer review process depending on scope and approach.

https://interpreterfoundation.org/peer-review/
Regarding his peer review process being “scholarly or peer reviewed according to the highest academic and professional standards”, this statement from the same link also contradicts:

Reviewers are generally of the LDS faith, but are not required to be. It is required that the reviewer not be hostile to LDS truth claims and that they are supportive of the Interpreter Foundation’s mission statement. Quite honestly, most reviewers are LDS simply because the majority of non-LDS scholars don’t have the source-level expertise required to provide a peer review of LDS-oriented scholarship.
So, when Wyatt says “the highest academic standards” he really means coming from the infinitesimally small group of academics who are “not hostile” to LDS truth claims. That’s quite a qualification to leave out, especially if he and Peterson are deciding who is “hostile” and who is not.

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Kishkumen »

Stem wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:17 pm
Getting old is tough. I"m giving them passes as individuals. I can't imagine staring down the day til my own demise. If something unforeseen doesn't hit me, I imagine I'll be ready to say all sorts of things, perhaps hoping that which is ending isn't the end. If someone invites me to spout off on any old topic of my past, relying on my past legacy, perhaps, hoping to incite click bait, I'd do it.

Forgive them, Jesus, they don't know what they're doing.

All I know is this little piece in response to a book is sad, particularly as it's pretending to be some sort of intellectual exercise. Maybe it's merely a symptom of advanced age, fears, and disappointments. It's a piss poor excuse for publication. Now if she added these thoughts on Sic Et Non's discussion board she'd have found an appropriate home for such comments. Or maybe that's how we should view the Interpreter anyway--a comment section of unvetted, unfettered thoughts.
Yes, I don’t know where Dr. Easton-Black’s mental acuity is. Honestly, I don’t think that is the problem. If someone told me to do a short review for an online blog aimed at faithful Latter-day Saints, I might produce such a deficient little review, were I a CES professor. I think the blame for this fiasco rests squarely on the shoulders of the editor, and, beyond that, the general culture of mishandling the vocation of scholarship one sees at Interpreter and its predecessor publications.
"I think the religious debates in America, where they fail is people will joke around in a rather mean and rude way, and they'll put other people down as opposed to being respectful when they debate." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by moksha »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:19 am
Yes, I don’t know where Dr. Easton-Black’s mental acuity is. Honestly, I don’t think that is the problem. If someone told me to do a short review for an online blog aimed at faithful Latter-day Saints, I might produce such a deficient little review, were I a CES professor. I think the blame for this fiasco rests squarely on the shoulders of the editor, and, beyond that, the general culture of mishandling the vocation of scholarship one sees at Interpreter and its predecessor publications.
Excellent point. For all we know, her writing instructions may have been to keep it simple and to cover the foundation blocks of apologetics: denial, pretzelized logic, and ad hominem attacks on the author. If those were her instructions, she fully complied.
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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Gadianton »

I'll admit I clicked on the link thinking it was someone impersonating Allen but I think it's legit. I'm pretty sure as Lemmie noted it directly contradicts a statement he made about peer reviewing most of the papers himself. I think it was an episode of their radio show where he said that.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: New Interpreter Hit-Piece

Post by Dr Moore »

Lemmie wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:07 pm
On a side note, may I just say how much I appreciate you guys here?

The author of the Interpreter review has been referred to here as Black, Dr. Easton-Black, Doctor Susan Black etc., all proper terms, and maybe once as Sister Black by someone who knows her well, which made it all the more jarring to read the comments on Interpreter, where so far she has been referred to as “Sister Black” EIGHTEEN TIMES. As Dr. or Doctor Black? NOT ONCE. Benjamin Park is referred to as Dr. Park nine times, and as Brother Park once.

I had forgotten how intrusive that double standard is in the LDS environment.
Patriarchy alive and well. I'm sure that to those Doctor brothers, the title of "Sister" is more honorable than "Doctor", but that would just be the patriarchal patronizing. You're right of course, that by calling her Sister Black, they are perpetuating a double standard and continuing to imply that a woman's supernal calling is in the home. They're saying it, without saying it.

Susan married my former Mission Prep course instructor at BYU, George Durrant. I'm pretty sure George made his career by retelling the same joke about missions making men become more handsome, for decades (see 1976 version here). And yes, he told the same joke in my mission prep class in the 1990s, more than a few times. The role of men is to look good in God's eyes so that worthy women will notice and desire to be their eternal home makers.

I watched this Youtube video this morning, and if I've copied the link correctly, George awkwardly cracks a joke about Susan having long established her professional name, Susan Easton Black, but that she's really "she's Susan Durrant." Watch her face when he says that. And then she quickly changes the subject. But I wonder what is it with LDS men that just have to make a statement, however subtle, about proper submission and hierarchy in the home? Was Durrant worried about perceptions and all the faithful out there who might wonder why his new bride wouldn't formally adopt his last name?

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