Sad...

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Quasimodo
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Sad...

Post by Quasimodo »

I just spent a few minutes looking over the date of posts on this once great board. This seems to be the only forum that has any recent posts. Very sad. I used to look forward to reading all the new posts and following the sometimes enormous discussions. A thread would go on for many pages and the wit and wisdom of some posters was truly remarkable.

I hope this board can be revived, but it doesn't seem likely at this point. I will continue to check in occasionally to see if things improve. It's like losing an old friend. Best wishes to all who are still contributing.
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.

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msnobody
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Re: Sad...

Post by msnobody »

I was kind of surprised/saddened too, but then I figured maybe posters are at different seasons in their posting lives. IDK. Then, I was told that EAllusion had retreated to the Paradise forum, people were mellowed out who used to not be, those who used to be aren't any longer, etc. Who came in and changed my world while I was AWOL?

Remember how we would all have to take a break every now and then, and announce it in a post so folks would know where we had disappeared to, only to reappear soon thereafter? Board wars (maybe this still exists in a sense), sock puppets.
"The Lord is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desire of those who fear him; he also hears their cry and saves them.” Psalm 145:18-19 ESV

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Re: Sad...

Post by Temp. Admin. »

Dr. Shades here. A huge part of the problem is that, due to continuing software issues, no new users have been able to sign up since mid-April or so. Ergo, there hasn't been any fresh blood since then; it's continued to be just us.

Needless to say, I'm praying that our software guy can figure out an effective fix before much longer.

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moksha
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Re: Sad...

Post by moksha »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:17 am
no new users have been able to sign up since mid-April or so.
That might explain why no posters with curiosity and gumption have wandered over from Sic et Non ready to do battle with the denizens of hell that they have been warned about. The SeNers best arm themselves with a plate of cookies and a smile if they are going to make friends with this mean group of hombres.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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Chap
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Re: Sad...

Post by Chap »

Temp. Admin. wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:17 am
Dr. Shades here. A huge part of the problem is that, due to continuing software issues, no new users have been able to sign up since mid-April or so. Ergo, there hasn't been any fresh blood since then; it's continued to be just us.
Well, I'm relieved to hear that. I mean, where did DrW and Maksutov go, I wondered? Now I know they may have just been outside the armoured glass, mouthing silently in at us.

I hope they have not given up and gone away for good ...

Could one not energise and publicise a subsidiary board on which they could register their presence, if they are still watching us?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.

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Arc
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Re: Sad...

Post by Arc »

This was indeed once was a great board. Now, not only are potential new participants unable to register, but it seems that most legacy members have been unable, or unwilling, to sign in and participate since the unfortunate "re-boot".

To my mind, another problem with participation on this board is that the Salt Lake LDS Church seems to be morphing into a parody of itself - and no longer worth the time to be concerned with. As Trump is to the Republican Party, so Nelson is to the Mormon Church (sorry, I meant "Church of Jesus Christ"). Both so-called leaders are ancient relics who have no business trying to direct their respective, increasingly irrelevant, organizations. Both are so out of touch with reality as to be a danger to those they are deluded enough to believe they lead.

Comment, debate, or critical engagement of any kind seems to matter not at all to these leaders, or to many their most dedicated followers. Since the "re-boot" the board appears to have largely devolved into a DCP & Co obsession site. Seems wise to just keep quiet and watch as they slowly and inexorably self destruct (leaders, devotees, party, church and all).

Thanks to Quasi for starting this thread.
"The effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things which lifts human life a little above the level of farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy." Steven Weinberg

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Chap
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Re: Sad...

Post by Chap »

Arc wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:20 pm
Since the "re-boot" the board appears to have largely devolved into a DCP & Co obsession site.
And as of this morning, the top thread in this forum was titled...
Peterson promises to ignore Mormon Discussions Board
What if the board started to ignore him? Would that be such a terrible loss? He says or does very little nowadays that is either interesting in itself or significant outside his own shrinking clique.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.

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honorentheos
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Re: Sad...

Post by honorentheos »

Part of the board dynamic has hinged on participation in finding and advancing topics related to Mormonism that aren't simply headline grabs. That requires some effort and creative thought which DCP related threads don't really require. That's not to say there isn't creativity and effort in DCP-focused threads and posts. There's a reason Scratch's year end threads almost always leap into the thousands of views which, for an obscure niche board with a few dozen active posters is impressive. The threads certainly span a diverse range of posts from creative to insightful to data-driven quote sharing to quick copy-paste-comment. But as a narrative-based cosplay game that is Cassius U., it's always had it's capacity and limits.

This raises the question of what incentive remains outside of the Cassius U framework that lands inside of the Venn diagram overlapping "Mormon-related" and "Will reward the effort"? There's a reason most of the internet has reduced to porn and listicles.

I'm mean, what would a list of ideas for topics look like? If the thread turned into a brain storm session on that, how many topics would be thought up that someone might put in the time and thought to post? And then who would add a thought to nudge a thread along, or share a bit of humor or insight?

The Terrestrial Forum does have a certain DCP-porn and Mormon Listicle vibe. But it's all user-driven content, too. So, I don't know what to say about threads like this other than, "Will you also go away?"
The world is always full of the sound of waves..but who knows the heart of the sea, a hundred feet down? Who knows it's depth?
~ Eiji Yoshikawa

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Hagoth
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Re: Sad...

Post by Hagoth »

I hadn't looked at this board for a long time and when I decided to check back in I did a Google search. It gave me a link that was dead. Is there any way to do some SEO to correct that? Fortunately Moksha came to my rescue with a correct link.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill and Ted
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” - Mark Twain

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huckelberry
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Re: Sad...

Post by huckelberry »

Obsession with Peterson on this board is a bit puzzling but the first page of Terrestial is showing 60 pages of discussion about some fellow named Midgley??

Arc, my view is the Salt Lake City church is a pretty stable institution that neither changes or fades very rapidly. I expect it to be trudging along much the same twenty years from now. How do you see this differently? Is it perhaps increasing personal distance making its presence fade for you. (not a bad thing if so I think)

I have a question
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Re: Sad...

Post by I have a question »

Chap wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 2:08 am
What if the board started to ignore him? Would that be such a terrible loss? He says or does very little nowadays that is either interesting in itself or significant outside his own shrinking clique.
Chap, as per usual you make a very good point. I'm going to commit to doing just that.

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Arc
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Re: Sad...

Post by Arc »

huckelberry wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:12 pm
Arc, my view is the Salt Lake City church is a pretty stable institution that neither changes or fades very rapidly. I expect it to be trudging along much the same twenty years from now. How do you see this differently? Is it perhaps increasing personal distance making its presence fade for you. (not a bad thing if so I think)
Huckelberry,
Assuming that you live in Utah, your point of view is most likely from inside the bubble, geographically as well as philosophically. From outside the bubble (~99% of the world), I can assure you that things look very different. Please consider:
  • The "Mormon" brand has become so toxic that Dear Leader Nelson has decided to appropriate the name of an existing smaller church for use by the Salt Lake City LDS. When in trouble try rebranding.

    In spite of a series of cosmetic and sometimes flip flopped changes to policies regarding blacks and the LBGTQ community, LDS leadership, as well as a substantial portion of the rank and file, continue to consider members of these groups as "others" and "less than".

    Activity in the church is now in the range of 40% in the US and no more than 25% in many foreign countries.

    Young BIC members are abandoning the Mormon Church in record numbers.

    Membership growth is on course to fall below the rate of growth in the US and might well have done so by now.

    The apparent emphasis of the Church leadership on commercial ventures, rather than the welfare of their members and society at large, including the covert amassing of a treasury of more than a billions dollars, has cost the Church a great deal of credibility with many members, even in Utah.

    Where I live in the mission field, the wards are shrinking and consolidating, minority members are being discriminated against and some Mormon families are even electing to move back to Utah.

    Mormon missionaries are becoming synonymous with Jehovah's Witnesses and about as welcome in the community.
Like the hemorrhage of millennial generation support from Trump and the Republicans, the loss of younger LDS members makes the Church unsustainable in its present form in the long run. While a burnt out core is likely to remain, like that of the Quakers, Shakers and Scientologists.
"The effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things which lifts human life a little above the level of farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy." Steven Weinberg

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Hagoth
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Re: Sad...

Post by Hagoth »

Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am
Assuming that you live in Utah, your point of view is most likely from inside the bubble, geographically as well as philosophically. From outside the bubble (~99% of the world), I can assure you that things look very different.
But surely the addition of blue shirts for missionaries will turn everything around!
Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am
While a burnt out core is likely to remain, like that of the Quakers, Shakers and Scientologists.
The difference being $150 Billion or so.

The burnt out core will be able to cruise along in extreme comfort for a long, long time. At least until somewhere along the line a Corporate Sole comes along who takes his ownership of the church's assets literally and gets a revelation that God wants him to have a magnificent mansion on a private island, fleets of Leer jets and yachts, and concubines.
"Be excellent to each other." - Bill and Ted
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” - Mark Twain

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SteelHead
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Re: Sad...

Post by SteelHead »

From my perspective, we have greatly reduced the volume of actual Mormon discussion - discussing topics around doctrine and history. THE DCP threads are Meh for me, and I try to stay out of the politics threads. As no defenders actually participate anymore outside of MG, the real discussions seem to have taken a lull.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.

Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality.
~Bill Hamblin

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Chap
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Re: Sad...

Post by Chap »

SteelHead wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:29 am
From my perspective, we have greatly reduced the volume of actual Mormon discussion - discussing topics around doctrine and history. THE DCP threads are Meh for me, and I try to stay out of the politics threads. As no defenders actually participate anymore outside of MG, the real discussions seem to have taken a lull.
I have said this before, but maybe it bears repeating. This board is a victim of its own success. The Big Beast apologists who used to post here in the past were repeatedly and humiliatingly reduced to silence by the total destruction of such truth claims as they ventured to make on historical, archeological, linguistic, cultural and even (in the case of the 'scroll-length' stuff related to the Book of Abraham) mathematical topics. They have gone, never to return.

And all we have now is ... MG. It is as if, in our success as marine predators, we have killed all the whales, and fished out all the cod, and are left with nothing but the jellyfish.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.

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Quasimodo
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Re: Sad...

Post by Quasimodo »

I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to reply to individual posts (any tips?) so this is a general reply to all. I'm happy to see so many old friends speaking up! Maybe we can salvage this board.

Shades's explanation of the problems here clears up lot. I hope that some message board savvy person can solve this and make it easy for old members to reconnect and new members to join.

We have a lot of very bright people that are still here. I wonder if any would be interested in looking into the problems and get us back up to running smoothly.

Thank you all!
This, or any other post that I have made or will make in the future, is strictly my own opinion and consequently of little or no value.

"Faith is believing something you know ain't true" Twain.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Sad...

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

How about you be the change you want to see in others? If the monkeys aren’t dancing to your liking you’re free to put on a new record and see what happens.

- Doc

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malkie
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Re: Sad...

Post by malkie »

Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am
...
The apparent emphasis of the Church leadership on commercial ventures, rather than the welfare of their members and society at large, including the covert amassing of a treasury of more than a billions dollars, has cost the Church a great deal of credibility with many members, even in Utah.
...
If you are talking about the Ensign Peak Advisors account, the figure is (was?) north of 100 billion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoy ... 9177006a7b

I heard the figure of 124 billion being bandied about at one point.
NOMinal member

Maksutov: "... if you give someone else the means to always push your buttons, you're lost."

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Arc
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Re: Sad...

Post by Arc »

malkie wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:15 pm
Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am
...
The apparent emphasis of the Church leadership on commercial ventures, rather than the welfare of their members and society at large, including the covert amassing of a treasury of more than a billions dollars, has cost the Church a great deal of credibility with many members, even in Utah.
...
If you are talking about the Ensign Peak Advisors account, the figure is (was?) north of 100 billion.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoy ... 9177006a7b

I heard the figure of 124 billion being bandied about at one point.
Malkie,
You're right, missed a few zeros. No problem, though. What's an extra hundred billion or so between a Church and its financially strapped, tithe paying members? Just makes it all the more disturbing.
"The effort to understand the universe is one of the very few things which lifts human life a little above the level of farce and gives it some of the grace of tragedy." Steven Weinberg

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huckelberry
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Re: Sad...

Post by huckelberry »

Arc wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:32 am
huckelberry wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:12 pm
Arc, my view is the Salt Lake City church is a pretty stable institution that neither changes or fades very rapidly. I expect it to be trudging along much the same twenty years from now. How do you see this differently? Is it perhaps increasing personal distance making its presence fade for you. (not a bad thing if so I think)
Huckelberry,
Assuming that you live in Utah, your point of view is most likely from inside the bubble, geographically as well as philosophically. From outside the bubble (~99% of the world), I can assure you that things look very different. Please consider:
  • The "Mormon" brand has become so toxic that Dear Leader Nelson has decided to appropriate the name of an existing smaller church for use by the Salt Lake City LDS. When in trouble try rebranding.

    In spite of a series of cosmetic and sometimes flip flopped changes to policies regarding blacks and the LBGTQ community, LDS leadership, as well as a substantial portion of the rank and file, continue to consider members of these groups as "others" and "less than".

    Activity in the church is now in the range of 40% in the US and no more than 25% in many foreign countries.

    Young BIC members are abandoning the Mormon Church in record numbers.

    Membership growth is on course to fall below the rate of growth in the US and might well have done so by now.

    The apparent emphasis of the Church leadership on commercial ventures, rather than the welfare of their members and society at large, including the covert amassing of a treasury of more than a billions dollars, has cost the Church a great deal of credibility with many members, even in Utah.

    Where I live in the mission field, the wards are shrinking and consolidating, minority members are being discriminated against and some Mormon families are even electing to move back to Utah.

    Mormon missionaries are becoming synonymous with Jehovah's Witnesses and about as welcome in the community.
Like the hemorrhage of millennial generation support from Trump and the Republicans, the loss of younger LDS members makes the Church unsustainable in its present form in the long run. While a burnt out core is likely to remain, like that of the Quakers, Shakers and Scientologists.
Arc, I do not really have a working crystal ball, only a fake. I do not mind if you see the course of events differently than I do but just for comparing different perceptions I might explain myself a tiny bit. I have never lived in Utah and having been out of the church for fifty years do not hold a very Deseret philosophical viewpoint. I do have Mormon relatives in Utah however and siblings active in the church.

I live in a smallish town which had one ward when I was in Jr High. It is a stake center now. I see a long stream of large growth. Perhaps the slowing now is but a temporary fluctuation. (perhaps not)

The term Mormon was not held in high regard where I came from in the past, it was more likely to collect gentle derision. I cannot imagine any decrease in favor for the nickname that would need rebranding now.

Welcomed Mormon missionaries? I thought the welcome door slam has long been standard fair. People in the past have been suspicious of Mormons. They have horns and extra wives you know.

More young people abandoning the church? Perhaps, and perhaps many like my sister who left when going to college but returned and went on a mission around age 30. I do not actually know the future path for the church on this , I have some curiosity to see.

The book of Abraham papyrus was found late 1960s(68?) did that burst the churches growth bubble? No. At that time the church was actively dismissing civil rights for negoes because of the churches racial policies. Did that cause church collapse? Hardly.

For better or worse there is significant institutional stability.

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moksha
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Re: Sad...

Post by moksha »

Quasimodo wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:02 pm
I'm having a little trouble figuring out how to reply to individual posts (any tips?) so this is a general reply to all. I'm happy to see so many old friends speaking up! Maybe we can salvage this board.
Use the quote button in the top right corner of the message. This board might be salvaged more efficiently with an illustration posted by Quasimodo. Hope that helps.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace

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