Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

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Dr Moore
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Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by Dr Moore »

https://youtu.be/AsulKdU9vYo?t=2434

Beginning at about the 40:30 minute mark, Bednar speaks about religious freedom, the Constitution, Covid-19 actions. Most of his comments orbit his fundamental assertion that religious freedom is incomplete without the right to gather, and that "no freedom is more important than religious freedom." I think there is a bigger agenda at work here. Let me explain.

Now lest I come off critical out of hand, I have to acknowledge that some of Bednar's observations ring true. For instance, that a church without gathering eventually leads to scattering. We're social creatures. Humans crave togetherness and connectivity with friends and loved ones. If a church gathering isn't providing that experience with some regularity, people will find other ways to get it.

In that spirit, I share this quote:
... what we create has never been more necessary or more important than right now. In fact, it’s quite possible that what we create is appreciated now more than ever, because people find comfort and inspiration in our messages of hope and optimism. This is the same reason we believe people will resume familiar activities once this crisis ends. They miss doing the things they enjoy, things that make them feel happy and connected with family and friends...People want good news. They want to experience joy and the feeling of togetherness...
-- Bob Iger, Chairman of Disney, speaking to shareholders on May 5.

And so, because I support religious freedom, I also support the right to gather. If that's where Bednar stopped, we would be mostly in agreement.

But he makes a couple of leaps, in connection with Covid-19 and regional government-imposed gathering bans, that don't settle with me. Namely:

Special grievance?
Sure, some aspects of our lives these past 3 months feel like fascism. Fauci anticipated as much, I think, when he said, "If it looks like you're overreacting, you're probably doing the right thing." But how is not being able to assemble at church somehow a bigger social sacrifice than the MILLIONS of people who lost their jobs or businesses? Or the fact that minorities have been massively over-penalized by Covid-19 compared with whites? It isn't as if any Mormon lost their ability to worship from home, hold meetings over Zoom, or declare their faith and compassion with others through various digital media. Bednar underpins the premise of his speech (below) with a false idea that religious liberty was attacked or stripped away under Covid-19. It was not. There is no reason to call it out as a special grievance. And he should know that. Could it be he's playing at something different?

Good citizens?
Beginning at the 59:31 mark, Bednar incorporates a key phrase from all of the church newsroom press releases about actions taken in response to Covid-19 government orders: "good citizens." We're closing Sunday services to be good citizens. We're closing the temples to be good citizens. We're limiting the reopening of chapel services to be good citizens. Bednar repeats this phrase as his penultimate point. In other words, we disagree with everything about this (complying with no-gathering orders), but we're going to be good citizens. Why does the church position it this way? Why not, instead, position compliance solely on the basis of working to ensure public safety? Could it be that making such a dramatic change in the interest of member health completely negates the power of the priesthood? Or, again, could it be that the church is using Covid-19 to establish a "point" in its fight for more pressing religious liberties?

To be clear, key Covid-19-related church press releases DO indicate an interest in public safety. It isn't neglected as a priority -- of course we care about public safety. But compliance with no gathering orders is always conditioned, primarily, on being "good citizens." Something about that phrase really matters to the brethren. Why? Could it be that the church is playing a longer, legal or public relations, game here? Perhaps to bolster its standing, by noting over and over again, ability to unwillingly comply in the face of fascist and anti-Constitutional directives? As if to say, See, we can do it when there's a good reason...but on this other thing, we have to stand our ground. Remember, the church remains embroiled on many flanks in the fight to suppress the rights and privileges of LGBTQ people, whether it be with students at BYU, at church-owned businesses, or fighting tooth and nail on a global scale to protect its right to be loving bigots because, you know, The Proclamation.

Hypocrisy
Bednar complains about the risk of members "scattering" if large church meetings are withheld for too long. He's not wrong about that being a risk. But isn't this like the millionaire petitioning city council after raising sewer taxes by 1% -- which is, effectively, a poor tax? The church has, at its disposal, nothing short of "all the money in the world" and yet, as of the present day, has still done absolutely nothing virtuous with that money. Of note, how could that money potentially be used to redesign church buildings for socially distanced meetings, or support local businesses by hiring out deep cleaning and weekly/daily sanitizing services?

Coming out at this point in time, giving an odd lecture on the US Constitution (of all things, from an Apostle never trained in law, with a background in organizational behavior) in order to justify his main point -- that "no other freedom matters more than religious freedom" is a really hard pill to swallow. What about the freedom of free speech? Freedom from search and seizure? The right of due process of law? Freedom from tyranny? All of those are second fiddle to religious freedom? I have to conclude that the hypocrisy and overstating of the complaint about gathering is a deliberate move to address something else. I would be willing to bet a dollar that the good folks at Kirton McConkie are heavily involved in it, more so than any notion of prophetic foresight about the risk of trampling of religious freedom to meet in large gatherings.

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Dr LOD
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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

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I see a business CEO worried about how the pandemic is affecting his company. With very little concern for issues beyond that.

No mention was made of what those "restrictions" did accomplish for the health and well-being to people everywhere.
This is from a recent article discussing exactly what these restrictions did in eleven European countries.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586- ... kf4Oxt4%3D

.... the deaths predicted under the model with no interventions to the deaths predicted in our intervention model, we calculated the total deaths averted in our study period. We find that, across 11 countries, since the beginning of the epidemic, 3,100,000 [2,800,000 - 3,500,000] deaths have been averted due to interventions.
Now speaking to his underlying concern that people are drifting away due to the lack of church services. Anecdotally from my small sample size he is correct. I have spoken to nearly a dozen individuals who have been enjoying the freedom from church meetings. And having the time to explore gospel subjects on their own. And are finding a better space just like the little video clip that Elder Bednar inserted in the middle of his presentation.

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Dr Exiled
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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by Dr Exiled »

I think too much freedom from church chains and the effect it will have on the members is probably a big concern of the Q15. Their model is built on constant busy work, loyalty oaths, and testimony affirmations. Group pressure is what ties it all together. So, the members must meet continually to reinforce belief in the unlikely or demonstrably false historical portrayals. Members must continually tell themselves and each other how the church benefits them. Otherwise, the members might discover that the church isn't all that and mostly a waste of time and money.
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 

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Mormonicious
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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

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Nothing screams "come follow me" like listening to the rantings of someone who believes the Earth is only 6 000 years old

All Hail Google GOD and her son eBay and the Holy Toaster youtube.
Revelation 2:17 . . give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. Thank Google GOD for her son eBay, you can now have life eternal with laser engraving. . oh, and a seer stone and save 10% of your life's earning as a bonus. See you in Mormon man god Heaven Bitches!!. Bring on the Virgins

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Gadianton
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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by Gadianton »

Pretty interesting. So is he saying that he'll take the risk of spreading Coronavirus throughout the Church over the risk of the coals spreading out and the fire dying? I suppose the leaders paid their actuaries to estimate tithes lost from members dying of Covid-19 vs. tithes lost due to members slipping through the cracks once away from church, and the model showed they'd lose more money in the second scenario.

The Church is about is close to communism as communism has ever been implemented. The Church doesn't believe in freedoms at all. They only believe in a small set of freedoms that allow them to run communism as a sort of virtual machine on a platform that will allow it to do so to some extent. It's radically top-down. You can't even go to a different ward to be with people you like, you have to accept the ward boundaries. If it's 'host' were to allow virtually unlimited freedoms for religion, it would become a police state.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by Fence Sitter »

I'd like to see them put their own lives on the line with this . If leadership is all that convinced that meetings are all that important let them attend randomly chosen meetings and have them sit with the audience.


Yeah, like that is going to happen.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."

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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by I have a question »

This is a massively subversive, unpatriotic and insensitive monologue by Bednar.

Government action around the world has saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Bednar seems to be suggesting that governments should have not locked things down, but allowed religious gatherings to continue regardless of the cost in human lives and regardless of the risk of total collapse of the world's public health systems.

He's totally lost in his own self-importance. What an idiot.
“Nor should we prioritize secular interests above religious ones. A health crisis should not become an excuse for a religious freedom crisis.”
https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... all-187106

He's wrong, Governments must prioritise secular interests above religious ones during times of national crisis. Secular interests during a global health crisis affect everyone. Religious interests do not. It would be unfair to risk an entire populations health to protect the right of minority portions of that population to get together to talk about whatever magical, supernatural, occult entity they have chosen to believe in.

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Re: Bednar teaches the Constitution & proclaims "never again"

Post by I have a question »

In the article there are some accompanying photographs. One of which pictures Bednar at his desk with Mrs Bednar sat on the other side of the desk watching her husband (was it Bring Your Wife To Work day?). The interesting thing to note about the image is that Mrs Bednar, unlike her husband, is wearing a mask. Why the disparity?

https://www.thechurchnews.com/leaders-a ... all-187106

(Maybe someone brighter than I can post the image so it shows in the thread)

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