Rejecting Polygamy

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Chap
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by Chap »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 12:17 pm
Chap wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:12 am
Sounds a really great plan by Heavenly Father for his children, doesn't it?
Sounds like a nasty system of exploitation, oppression, and suffering. Sounds effed up. Was effed up. Is effed up.
There is that, I grant you.

Still, win some, lose some. A deity can't be expected to satisfy everybody, can he?

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Shulem: “Doc doth protest too much. Look, the Doc has crumbs on his jacketses?”

Boy, if that’s the case then you REALLY want to go back church.

Don’t listen him Lost Boys!!! He’s just the GAY DEVIL who wants you to forget about WOMEN and risk your bums because your POLYGAMOUS FATHERS want to keep all the GIRLS for themselves! GREEDY!

Anyway.

OP’s OP seemed kind of out of left field. One does wonder why our good professor thought to publicly declare polygamy personally verboten...

- Doc

Lemmie
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by Lemmie »

Well, since this thread seems to have merrily gone to hell in a hand basket, now seems as good a time as any to inject some salacious gossip. Until recently, my ex-spouse was sealed to two living women. That’s polygamy, right? So here’s the gossip. I never resigned from the LDS church, because my stubborn side insisted that once I had fulfilled the federal definition of leaving a congregation, I was under no obligation to follow LDS protocol (now involving ID, notarization, letters, etc.) to resign by THEIR rules. Hence the sealing lingering on, as evidenced by the line items in the family genealogy posted online.

However, last year, I received a letter stating that, AS PER MY REQUEST, my name was now removed. So, who had forged my name on such a request? IMHO, it was Wife Number Two, who just couldn’t stand the thought anymore of not being the Number One Wife in the Mormon hereafter. If my name was submitted, my sealing would be cancelled, the line item in the family genealogy would disappear, and she could slip into the favored spot.

Not that I give a rat’s ass, but she clearly does. What an utterly bizarre and eternally weird cult this is.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

That was amazing. My ex-wife’s Bishop called me out of the blue years ago asking my permission to let her celesta-divorce me so she could seal herself to her Mormon husband. I said, “I’m disinclined to acquiesce to your request.” He said, “I’m going to do it anyway.” I asked, “Why in THE ____ did you call me then?” He said, “She needs your permission to unseal herself from you so she can marry him.” I was like, “Well, she doesn’t have it then.” He hung up on me.

She got married in the temple. Soooo....

Jokes on them, though. Word on the street is they both have left the church or whatever. What a weird cult.

- Doc

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Shulem
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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Kishkumen,

Polygamy was misery for my direct ancestor according to Ezra Thompson Clark's Ancestors and Descendants which I will happily take the time to copy some paragraphs from my personal copy which I treasure to this day:

Mary Elizabeth Clark: Born 1849 in Bountiful

"Mary was the third child and only daughter of Ezra T. and Mary (Stevenson) Clark. She was one of two children born while a small colony of about 25 families lived in East Canyon above Bountiful, Utah. The other child, born a few months earlier, was her future husband Joseph E. Robinson; the two grew up together and seemed destined to marry, but a newcomer to Farmington intervened. He was a convert to Mormonism from England, Arthur Stayner, who became one of the first school teachers. Mary became one of his plural wives soon after her nineteenth birthday. She never lived with her first husband, however; she found she could not tolerate the situation and was granted a divorce 4 months later. Later that year she married Joseph Robinson.

A few days before Mary's third child was born, her husband took his second wife, who was then 15 years old. On 10 July 1874 the three of them wet out in a buggy for Salt Lake City to have their portrait taken. On the way they paused to water the team, and Joseph tightroped the tongue to reach the horses and unbridle them. While they were drinking, one of the animals became frightened and lurched forward. Before the women could bring them under control the horses had tramped Joseph, and the front wheels of the buggy had run over him. He hovered for weeks between life and death, cared for by the two wives. He recovered, but he was crippled for life. Nevertheless he became the father of one more child by his first wife and 14 children by his second.

The accident threw a heavy burden on Mary, who had to handle a man's work in addition to caring for her own children and supervising the household; the younger wife was left to nurse Joseph and to see to his intimate needs. Shortly before her youngest child was born, the older wife, feeling frustrated, overburdened, and unappreciated, moved to her father's home, fully intending to return. To the husband, however, it looked like desertion, and he divorced her; Mary and her children were never welcomed into the Robinson household again."


And there you have it, my great great grandmother and her experience with Mormon polygamy. With that said, however, Mary's parents were successful in their polygamy and the family was enormous in size -- very prominent pioneers.

Shulem

Lemmie
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by Lemmie »

Well, dad gummit, Shulem, you scared me there for a minute! That story sounded awfully familiar so I checked my handy pedigree chart. Sure enough, I have a Mary Elizabeth ancestor who got so disgusted with her polygamous spouse she also moved out, but her last name wasn’t Clark.

(Good thing. Just so you know, when it comes to the Cassius U. Christmas Party I draw the line at making out in the corner with any cousin closer than a third. A girl has to have some standards. :twisted: :wink: )

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Shulem
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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We have to have standards, babe.

Oh yeah, grab your partner and do-si-do!

:lol:

DoubtingThomas
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by DoubtingThomas »

Lemmie wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 2:52 pm
What an utterly bizarre and eternally weird cult this is.
No you are still Mormon in some ways. You still have a Mormon way of thinking.

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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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I have a question wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 9:16 am
Oaks and Nelson have entered into eternal plural marriage arrangements. But a woman cannot be sealed to multiple husbands in the same manner. Sexism is alive and well in the Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints.
It is sexist, but Mormon women don't care. Things will not change anytime soon because a lot of Mormons are happy.
I then asked Hunter about conflicting research that shows that even though Mormons in general rank as very happy, Utah (which is nearly 70% Mormon) has a high suicide rate and a lot of women on antidepressants. How do those two facts square with Utah as one of the happiest places in the USA? “Research shows that some of the happiest places in the world also have the highest suicide rates,” Hunter explains. “Some people think that this paradox is explained by relative comparisons of utility. People compare their happiness to other people’s. It may feel particularly painful to be unhappy when everyone around you is happy. There’s also a lot of research that talks about elevation and suicide.” (See here for a brief discussion of the role of altitude and mountains in suicide rates.) And while Hunter acknowledges that the antidepressant rate is high among Utahns, she says it’s important to put that in a larger context. “It’s possible that Mormons are not self-medicating with alcohol and drugs like some people do to combat depression. In addition, Mormons are more likely to seek medical help, evidenced by the fact that Utah ranks high for people seeking prescriptions for other things like thyroid medication or anticonvulsants or anti-rheumatics. It’s not just for antidepressants.” Also, Mormon women have more children and are thus more susceptible to post-partum depression. They also have a higher rate of women who are stay-at-home mothers, a life situation that puts women at risk for depression, at least for a time.
https://religionnews.com/2015/07/02/5-r ... esearcher/

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moksha
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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The issue of polygamy may come to the forefront now that Utah has officially decriminalized polygamy. The inexorable push for "The Principle" to take its preeminent place in LDS theology may have already begun with the Brethren giving their required tacit consent for the passage of that legislation.



https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html

Stem
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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moksha wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:45 am
The issue of polygamy may come to the forefront now that Utah has officially decriminalized polygamy. The inexorable push for "The Principle" to take its preeminent place in LDS theology may have already begun with the Brethren giving their required tacit consent for the passage of that legislation.



https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nation ... story.html
The true test for the modern Mormon Church is yet to come. Once Nelson's successor announces the need to restore that which God felt forced to rescind, hell may break loose. Well...I"m just saying...it used to be voiced that polygamy would have to come back. Come on...they're crazy enough. Aren't they?

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SteelHead
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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Makes women chattel. Nothing that makes women chattel is godly.

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Shulem
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

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https://www.comeuntochrist.org/common-questions wrote:
Do Mormons practice polygamy

No. Early in Mormon history, the Lord directed that a limited number of Church members practice plural marriage. However, revelation was received in the late 1800’s to end that practice. Since then, the Church has taught that monogamy is the marriage practice that the Lord commands today. Although some people today still practice polygamy, these people are not members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
See, Kish, the Church doesn't practice polygamy just because apostles and prophets today are sealed to multiple women. They can't practice it in this life but have to wait to find out if they can in the next life. Perhaps the Lord will put an end to it there too and those brethren will have to settle for just one woman.

It's a wonderful thing that the Lord gave a revelation to end the practice through the Manifesto. Surely, the whole Church rejoiced at the Lord's revelation, especially the prophet (Woodruff) who received the word of the Lord. Woodruff was no doubt overjoyed at hearing the voice of the Lord speak to him concerning his divine will that polygamy must end.

Isn't it glorious? Isn't it wonderful? You see, Kish, the Church really is true.

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moksha
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by moksha »

Stem wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 7:08 am
The true test for the modern Mormon Church is yet to come. Once Nelson's successor announces the need to restore that which God felt forced to rescind, hell may break loose. Well...I"m just saying...it used to be voiced that polygamy would have to come back. Come on...they're crazy enough. Aren't they?
Currently, the majority of LDS women would not support The Principle. They would rebel, and some countries would put the Church on their poop list. The Church would need to reintroduce polygamy on a small scale, perhaps building a residential polygamist enclave around a newly constructed Temple.

DoubtingThomas
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by DoubtingThomas »

moksha wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 7:45 pm
Currently, the majority of LDS women would not support The Principle. They would rebel, and some countries would put the Church on their poop list. The Church would need to reintroduce polygamy on a small scale, perhaps building a residential polygamist enclave around a newly constructed Temple.
True, but I don't know what LDS women are going to do.
The gender gap in Utah’s Mormon population has widened since 1990, when the female-to-male gender ratio was 52-to-48. In 2008, the gender ratio changed to 60-to-40, according to a Trinity College’s American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) as cited in the Time Magazine article.

For Mormons in Utah, that’s the equivalent of three LDS women for every two LDS men.
https://universe.BYU.edu/2015/10/20/rat ... than-men1/

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moksha
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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by moksha »

DoubtingThomas wrote:
Thu May 21, 2020 10:53 pm
The gender gap in Utah’s Mormon population has widened since 1990, when the female-to-male gender ratio was 52-to-48. In 2008, the gender ratio changed to 60-to-40, according to a Trinity College’s American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) as cited in the Time Magazine article.

For Mormons in Utah, that’s the equivalent of three LDS women for every two LDS men.
https://universe.BYU.edu/2015/10/20/rat ... than-men1/
Some of that is due to the aging population and women outliving men. Wonder if there is any plan on sealing Sister Sheri Dew to President Nelson upon his passing. I imagine Wendy and Sheri would take comfort in being Sister Wives.

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Re: Rejecting Polygamy

Post by DoubtingThomas »

moksha wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 1:47 am
Some of that is due to the aging population and women outliving men. Wonder if there is any plan on sealing Sister Sheri Dew to President Nelson upon his passing. I imagine Wendy and Sheri would take comfort in being Sister Wives.
True, but it was 52-to-48 in 1990.

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