American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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I have a question
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American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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“The entirety of the book is showing how the gospel of Jesus Christ and the history of this promised land of America fit hand-in-glove ... how history corroborates with the Restoration,” said Ballard, a Latter-day Saint. “In fact, I would argue you can’t explain one without the other. You can’t explain what happened in America and the miracles and the crazy, beyond-belief coincidences, without also simultaneously showing the Restoration of the gospel, and vice versa. They are one in the same, and that’s what this book is really about.”
https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/5/13 ... -mayflower
One of Ballard’s purposes in writing his books is to find and preserve miraculous and under-told accounts that have been revised, edited or forgotten by historians, he said.

“There’s always an attack on history,” Ballard said.

One under-told story is that of Howland, who came across the Atlantic Ocean as the servant of John Carver, the pilgrims’ first governor in America. Ballard recounts that at one point during the Mayflower’s voyage to America, while passengers were below deck during a storm, Howland climbed to the deck and was somehow thrown off into the thrashing sea waves.

“The Mayflower wasn’t a speedboat. There was no turning that thing around ... especially in stormy weather,” Ballard wrote in his book. “Statistically, Howland was a dead man.”

As he fell however, Howland’s hand was able to grasp the topsail halyard, the rope sailors used to raise the upper sail, which was dangling off the deck and dragging in the waters below. Howland managed to hold on “though he was several fathoms under water until he was hauled up by the same rope to the brim of the water, and then with a boat-hook and other means got him into the ship again,” recorded William Bradford, another passenger on the Mayflower.

Of the 102 men, women and children who disembarked at Plymouth Rock in November 1620, Howland was one of 51 to survive the first winter. He later married Elizabeth Tilley and they had 10 children.

Many generations later, Howland’s descendants include three U.S. presidents (Franklin D. Roosevelt, George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush), American poets Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and Joseph, Emma and Hyrum Smith, among others.
“Lo and behold, who knew that Howland was the (many times) great-grandfather of the Restoration,” Ballard said. “It’s an amazing and powerful story about who the pilgrims were and why the Lord sent them to do the impossible. ... They were a special group of people.”
This is simply an exercise in drawing targets around fallen arrows. I doubt native Americans will view the Pilgrims arrival as a blessing to their history.

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Fence Sitter
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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The ancestors of Hitler were a special group of people too.

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Dr LOD
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Fence Sitter wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 8:19 am
The ancestors of Hitler were a special group of people too.
So according to this book the conquering, genocide and colonization of the western hemisphere, was all for the future LDS church? And the Book of Mormon gave justifications for those actions. That is a position that is full of ethical landmines. A Nazi comarison is accurate, thank you.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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That... was actually a pretty cool story.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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“The Mayflower wasn’t a speedboat. There was no turning that thing around ... especially in stormy weather,” Ballard wrote in his book.
However...
Initially the trip went smoothly, but under way they were met with strong winds and storms. One of these caused a main beam to crack, and the possibility was considered of turning back, even though they were more than halfway to their destination. However, they repaired the ship sufficiently to continue using a "great iron screw" brought along by the colonists (probably a jack to be used for either house construction or a cider press).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilgrims_ ... c_crossing

{Bangs, Jeremy Dupertuis (Winter 2003). "Pilgrim Life: Two Myths — Ancient and Modern". New England Ancestors. Boston: New England Historic Genealogical Society. 4 (1): 52–55.}

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Howland has an estimated 2 million descendants in America today and one of them is President M. Russell Ballard, acting president of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.
Ballard doesn’t believe it’s a coincidence that Adams and Jefferson died on the same day — July 4, 1826, the 50th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence — of unrelated causes. "We suspect they were done in by an angel with an unrelated causes zapper because they refused to accept the principle of plural marriage."

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Dr Exiled
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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More of the same worshipping the pilgrims and puritans. I wonder if disaffection with america causes people to leave the church outside the USA?

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Philo Sofee
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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It's sooooooooo American and nothing universal or world........ that's all the info needed to realized Smith made it up. Before we know it we will be told God was born in Twin Falls, Idaho.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Many generations later, Howland’s descendants include three U.S. presidents (Franklin D. Roosevelt, George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush), American poets Ralph Waldo Emerson and Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, and Joseph, Emma and Hyrum Smith, among others.
Maybe he was preparing the continent for Unitarianism.

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Lucretia MacEvil
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Dr Exiled wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:42 pm
More of the same worshipping the pilgrims and puritans. I wonder if disaffection with america causes people to leave the church outside the USA?
Interesting about the church worshiping pilgrims and puritans; I hadn't made that connection before. Anyway, I started doing genealogy when I was in the church and had set it aside for a couple three decades. Recently took it up again with online resources and lo and behold I have Mayflower ancestors and many, many puritans. Some of those lines were ancestors to my Nauvoo Mormon ancestors. I read a little about puritanism and found all sorts of parallels to Mormonism. I have a theory that folks with Puritanism in their past generations were the sort of people attracted to Mormonism, generally speaking. That would be a good topic for a scientific study, in my opinion.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1224637 time=1589554345 user_id=3779]
That... was actually a pretty cool story.

- Doc
[/quote]
I agree, although I do suspect there may be a little Dunn-hausen by proxy going on here. I guess it's possible there could have been an unnoticed line dragging behind the ship, but I doubt the ships crew would be that derelict to let a halyard drag, as that is kind of an important line.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Dantana wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 8:26 pm
Dunn-hausen by proxy
Yes, from the DSM- Utah Version. This is a classic diagnosis that fits in with Faith Promoting Syndrome.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:37 pm
Dr Exiled wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 2:42 pm
More of the same worshipping the pilgrims and puritans. I wonder if disaffection with america causes people to leave the church outside the USA?
Interesting about the church worshiping pilgrims and puritans; I hadn't made that connection before. Anyway, I started doing genealogy when I was in the church and had set it aside for a couple three decades. Recently took it up again with online resources and lo and behold I have Mayflower ancestors and many, many puritans. Some of those lines were ancestors to my Nauvoo Mormon ancestors. I read a little about puritanism and found all sorts of parallels to Mormonism. I have a theory that folks with Puritanism in their past generations were the sort of people attracted to Mormonism, generally speaking. That would be a good topic for a scientific study, in my opinion.
It seemed like I heard references to the pilgrims and puritans being God's chosen as precursors for the restoration a lot growing up. My guess is besides Joseph Smith being a descendant, many of the GA's were also, including the ones in my home ward. They certainly were great, especially during the Salem witch trials and when they were spreading west killing all the native americans as they went, a la old testament god.

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Please excuse me for not going out there to do all the leg-work of checking research and giving citations.

But I think that any discussions about people being descended from early colonists needs to be conducted in the knowledge of the probability that, given a relatively small and early immigrant group that (unlike some other 'plantations') survives for several centuries, a quite large number of the later population will have one at least of those colonists somewhere amongst their ancestors, even if immigration continues. That is simply because the further back we go, the more ancestors we are likely to have had. But the population from which those ancestors must have been drawn gets smaller as we go back in time, so ...

Here is an article at a popular level:

Are you descended from royalty? Six things to consider

And a somewhat more substantial article in the Atlantic, referred to in the former piece:

The Royal We: The mathematical study of genealogy indicates that everyone in the world is descended from Nefertiti and Confucius, and everyone of European ancestry is descended from Muhammad and Charlemagne

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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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I have a question wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 7:19 am
This is simply an exercise in drawing targets around fallen arrows. I doubt native Americans will view the Pilgrims arrival as a blessing to their history.
Yes. It reminds me of an old Calvin and Hobbs cartoon where Calvin explains to Hobbs all the amazing coincidences that needed to occur in order for him to be born and that makes him the most important person in the world.

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Dantana
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

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Moksha wrote, "Yes, from the DSM- Utah Version. This is a classic diagnosis that fits in with Faith Promoting Syndrome."

Dunn-hausen by proxy was a feeble attempt at a Mokshism. Need to remember though, this line from Lee Marvin's 'Monty Walsh' -"Nobody gets to be a penguin forever."

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Lucretia MacEvil
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

Post by Lucretia MacEvil »

Dr Exiled wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 10:32 pm
Lucretia MacEvil wrote:
Sun May 17, 2020 7:37 pm


Interesting about the church worshiping pilgrims and puritans; I hadn't made that connection before. Anyway, I started doing genealogy when I was in the church and had set it aside for a couple three decades. Recently took it up again with online resources and lo and behold I have Mayflower ancestors and many, many puritans. Some of those lines were ancestors to my Nauvoo Mormon ancestors. I read a little about puritanism and found all sorts of parallels to Mormonism. I have a theory that folks with Puritanism in their past generations were the sort of people attracted to Mormonism, generally speaking. That would be a good topic for a scientific study, in my opinion.
It seemed like I heard references to the pilgrims and puritans being God's chosen as precursors for the restoration a lot growing up. My guess is besides Joseph Smith being a descendant, many of the GA's were also, including the ones in my home ward. They certainly were great, especially during the Salem witch trials and when they were spreading west killing all the native americans as they went, a la old testament god.
They were pretty awful to the Quakers too. Some puritans tried to sell my teenage many times great-grandmother and her brother to the Barbados, but fortunately the ship captain refused to take them. I find it all fascinating from a historical standpoint, but not something to brag about. Apparently, though, I have an aunt who married Abraham Lincoln's uncle, so there's that.

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Lucretia MacEvil
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

Post by Lucretia MacEvil »

Chap wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 3:09 am
Please excuse me for not going out there to do all the leg-work of checking research and giving citations.

But I think that any discussions about people being descended from early colonists needs to be conducted in the knowledge of the probability that, given a relatively small and early immigrant group that (unlike some other 'plantations') survives for several centuries, a quite large number of the later population will have one at least of those colonists somewhere amongst their ancestors, even if immigration continues. That is simply because the further back we go, the more ancestors we are likely to have had. But the population from which those ancestors must have been drawn gets smaller as we go back in time, so ...

Here is an article at a popular level:

Are you descended from royalty? Six things to consider

And a somewhat more substantial article in the Atlantic, referred to in the former piece:

The Royal We: The mathematical study of genealogy indicates that everyone in the world is descended from Nefertiti and Confucius, and everyone of European ancestry is descended from Muhammad and Charlemagne
True, of course, and I realize that my little sample of Mormon-Puritan connections aren't enough to prove anything, but it's a fun past-time for my dotage.

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Lucretia MacEvil
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Re: American History and The Restoration are one and the same

Post by Lucretia MacEvil »

I wonder if Timothy Ballard, the author of the book in question, is a descendant of Joseph Ballard and Elizabeth Phelps (who happen to be my 8th great-grandparents). A resident of Andover, Mass, Joseph Ballard was distressed when his wife fell terminally ill. Seeking help for his wife, he thought it would be a good idea to consult with several teenage girls from the neighboring Salem Village who were already identifying witches there. After visiting Elizabeth, the girls claimed that several people in Andover had bewitched her. Constable John Ballard (brother of Joseph) got a warrant for their arrests. Over the next three months more than forty Andover citizens, mostly women and their children, were jailed as suspected witches (even more than in Salem itself). So there you have Andover's first witch accuser and first witch prosecutor.

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