Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

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Doctor Scratch
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 8:34 pm
Dr. Scratch, just a quick update: I checked Netflix today and it's not there. In case people were waiting on that or something.
A good point, Dr. Robbers. What sort of potential audience could this have if the Mopologists managed to hammer out a distribution deal with Netflix? Instead, isn't this just going to be shown in seminary classrooms? I noticed that one of the captions on "Sic et Non" referred to the movie as a "theatrical feature." Well, that's kind of a joke if it's only screened in one movie theater in Orem, don't you think? Like, will you be able to go see this clunker on the big screen in Birmingham, Alabama, say? Or in Anchorage, Alaska?

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by DarkHelmet »

It will probably debut in the $1 bargain movie bin at Walmart, but only in rural Utah.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Gadianton »

I don't know, but something tells me the Witnesses movie has been internally suppressed from the highest levels. My money now is on it never getting released.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:47 pm
I don't know, but something tells me the Witnesses movie has been internally suppressed from the highest levels. My money now is on it never getting released.
Huh. That's an interesting theory. Perhaps the Brethren--or the Church's P.R. people--took a look at that first trailer, and realized what a disaster this would be? DCP seems to think that this is all just an automatic thing: he's going to get to have his theatrical debut, just like he always dreamed. But studios squash film projects all the time. He likes to make cracks on "Sic et Non" about how we've already made up our minds about the movie's quality even though we haven't seen the finished product, but we are not the ones he should be worried about. Unless the Brethren and their P.R. folks are okay with the idea of the Gold Plates being used to clobber somebody across the face, or dumb punching noises, or (alleged) wireless mics clipped to the back of an actor's pants.... Well, you can expect the deals with CES et al. to be canceled.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by I have a question »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 pm
Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:47 pm
I don't know, but something tells me the Witnesses movie has been internally suppressed from the highest levels. My money now is on it never getting released.
Huh. That's an interesting theory. Perhaps the Brethren--or the Church's P.R. people--took a look at that first trailer, and realized what a disaster this would be? DCP seems to think that this is all just an automatic thing: he's going to get to have his theatrical debut, just like he always dreamed. But studios squash film projects all the time. He likes to make cracks on "Sic et Non" about how we've already made up our minds about the movie's quality even though we haven't seen the finished product, but we are not the ones he should be worried about. Unless the Brethren and their P.R. folks are okay with the idea of the Gold Plates being used to clobber somebody across the face, or dumb punching noises, or (alleged) wireless mics clipped to the back of an actor's pants.... Well, you can expect the deals with CES et al. to be canceled.
In the eventuality that it never gets completed, will the donors who specifically contributed to this vanity project be reimbursed?

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Of course the donors will be reimbursed........spiritually.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 9:31 am
Of course the donors will be reimbursed........spiritually. It will count in heaven for their sacrifices here on earth

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Lemmie »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 8:42 pm
Gadianton wrote:
Fri May 01, 2020 6:47 pm
I don't know, but something tells me the Witnesses movie has been internally suppressed from the highest levels. My money now is on it never getting released.
Huh. That's an interesting theory. Perhaps the Brethren--or the Church's P.R. people--took a look at that first trailer, and realized what a disaster this would be? DCP seems to think that this is all just an automatic thing: he's going to get to have his theatrical debut, just like he always dreamed. But studios squash film projects all the time. He likes to make cracks on "Sic et Non" about how we've already made up our minds about the movie's quality even though we haven't seen the finished product, but we are not the ones he should be worried about. Unless the Brethren and their P.R. folks are okay with the idea of the Gold Plates being used to clobber somebody across the face, or dumb punching noises, or (alleged) wireless mics clipped to the back of an actor's pants.... Well, you can expect the deals with CES et al. to be canceled.
And don’t forget that the trailer STILL contains scenes from a already released movie, the American prophet Joseph Smith.

My guess is that while BYU will reneg on contributing financially, the LDS church will still take possession of the copyright, if for no other reason than that as a BYU professor working with the CES, Peterson’s contract requires him to turn all copyrights over to the LDS church. Whatever money private donors contributed will be used to quickly finish it up, so to speak, and the half-finished product will disappear into BYU tv and religious studies classroom videos.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

“... the trailer STILL contains scenes from a already released movie...”

Lolol. Of course it does. Mr. Peterson wouldn’t do it any other way.

- Doc

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Well, folks, it may be that we're never going to get a whole, entire film, but at least a short clip of it is going to get plenty of mileage:
Sic et Non wrote:Series Title: The Witnesses to the Book of Mormon

First Lecture: The Three Witnesses

This class will discuss not only the specific experience of the Three Witnesses but their biographies thereafter and their lifelong characters and reputations. Furthermore, it will discuss why they left the Church and whether or not they returned to it, and it will emphasize the consistency of their testimonies thereafter, sometimes under trying circumstances. Many members of the Church are unaware of the details of their stories.

I will show a 3-5-minute clip from the Witnesses film project, forthcoming in October.
Oliver Cowdery
Martin Harris
David Whitmer


Second Lecture: The Eight Witnesses

This class will discuss not only the specific experience of the Eight Witnesses but their biographies thereafter. It will discuss why some of them left the Church but it will emphasize the lifelong consistency of their testimonies, sometimes under trying circumstances. Many members of the Church are unaware of the details of their stories.

I will show a 3-5-minute clip from the Witnesses film project, forthcoming in October.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sic et Non.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith


Third Lecture: The Unofficial Witnesses

This class will discuss the specific and varied experiences of several unofficial Witnesses to golden plates and other related objects, most of them women. Many members of the Church are unaware of the details of their stories.

I will show a 3-5-minute clip from the Witnesses film project, forthcoming in October.
Emma Smith
Lucy Mack Smith
Josiah Stowell
Mary Musselman Whitmer


Fourth Lecture: What Difference Do They Make?

This class will address the significance of the differences between the different sets of Witnesses and how those differences strengthen their collective testimony. It will also address several of the most important criticisms directed against the Witnesses by skeptics.

I will show a 3-5-minute clip from the Witnesses film project, forthcoming in October.
Isn't it nice and convenient that at "3-5-minute clip" will manage to work for all four lectures? That means that if a student attends all four, he/she will get to see the same clip four times! Apart from that, wow: what a lousy and unimaginative proposal, write-in the driest and humorless language imaginable. Who would want to go to these lectures--especially that last one, which is so dismissive towards women? ("unofficial Witnesses....most of them women." Because their "witnessing" just doesn't count as much, right?) I mean, the title says it all: "What Difference Do They Make?" It's one of those: "Gee, Dr. Peterson, if you had to ask...."

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by moksha »

I read Dr. Peterson's blog entry as meaning four separate clips from the film. Was my interpretation wrong?

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Dr Exiled »

This might be a perfect metaphor for apologetic failure. As the witnesses project turns out to be less than advertised, mopologetics are always less than advertised.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by I have a question »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sat May 02, 2020 11:15 pm
Well, folks, it may be that we're never going to get a whole, entire film, but at least a short clip of it is going to get plenty of mileage:
Sic et Non wrote:<snip>
Isn't it nice and convenient that at "3-5-minute clip" will manage to work for all four lectures? That means that if a student attends all four, he/she will get to see the same clip four times! Apart from that, wow: what a lousy and unimaginative proposal, write-in the driest and humorless language imaginable. Who would want to go to these lectures--especially that last one, which is so dismissive towards women? ("unofficial Witnesses....most of them women." Because their "witnessing" just doesn't count as much, right?) I mean, the title says it all: "What Difference Do They Make?" It's one of those: "Gee, Dr. Peterson, if you had to ask...."
Doctor Scratch, at the start of the blog post you refer to is the following preamble...
A week or two ago, I signed a contract to speak at BYU Education Week in August of this year. At this point, of course, I don’t know whether there will be a physical Education Week on the BYU campus. I’ve been told that those in charge are still moving cautiously forward with plans for a gathering in Provo and, so far as I’m aware, that’s still the case. Let us hope. If it’s ultimately decided not to have people come to campus, then I would guess — though I have no privileged knowledge on this score — that Education Week might well go virtual. Obviously, though, it could still be cancelled altogether. Plenty of things have been.
We’ll see!
In the meantime, I thought that I would share the proposal that I made to the Education Week leadership, and that was accepted by them:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ugust.html
So Peterson has used The Witnesses Film to secure a (presumably paid) contract for speaking at BYU Education Week. Hmmm, didn't he say he wasn't earning an income from the Witnesses Film project?

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Lemmie »

I don’t know if teachers are paid, but I’m sure this from the BYU-I education week Teacher’s Acceptance Agreement holds:

COMMERCIALISM

Please avoid referencing your own commercially available materials in any handouts, titles, or during your lecture...

https://www.byui.edu/documents/universi ... eement.pdf

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

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BENEFITS

Instructing at BYU-Idaho Education Week is a
volunteer experience; no monetary compensation is
offered to instructors. However, teachers and their
immediate family will receive complimentary full-event
passes that will allow them to attend any Education
Week class or event, provided seating is available. Also,
they will receive a no-waiting pass for Celestial Kingdom
entrance in lieu of monetary compensation. A full tithing
paid Temple recommendation must accompany the
no-waiting pass. Line monitors may detain all pass holders
who do not submit to mandatory pat-downs and rectal
probes searching for contraband. Thank you for contributing
to the BYU Education Week.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Gadianton »

I realize that some folks might be shocked over my ambitious theory that senior leadership at Interpreter is suppressing the release of the Witnesses film. I want to make it clear that I am not speaking for this board or any others on this board, only myself. I do plan to justify my position.

My first argument for what Reverend Kishkumen will one day put as the "Internal suppression of the Witnesses film" on his calendar of apologetics, for somewhere around March 2020 - Dec. 2020, is as follows:

The film and the witnesses testimony are hardly needed when the case is already rock solid. Do you need people to testify of the moon, when everyone already sees it at night?

A recent post on Sic et Non argues that if you believe that Barack Obama was a real historical person and not a social construct of commonalities between Abe Lincoln and JFK, then you are required to believe the gospels are real and therefore, that Jesus was a real historical person and the very son of God. And then in a related post on the reliability of the gospels, Kiwi57 writes:
Kiwi57 wrote: A real irony in this discussion is found where those who cheerfully trust secular histories - or Biblical accounts - from decades (or more) after the events they describe, but reject the First Vision accounts under the pretext that the official account was published 18 years after the event.
Right: if the Biblical accounts are trustworthy, then so is the First Vision account, therefore Joseph Smith was a prophet and the plates were real. So let's put it all together: If you believe Barack Obama is real and was president of the United States, then it follows immediately that Joseph Smith's first vision was real and that the Book of Mormon is true!

You don't need witness testimony!

So why have the witnesses? Because for a long time, there didn't exist logicians of the caliber of DCP and Kiwi57, and so it was the best God could do.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Tom »

Lemmie wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:17 am
I don’t know if teachers are paid, but I’m sure this from the BYU-I education week Teacher’s Acceptance Agreement holds:

COMMERCIALISM

Please avoid referencing your own commercially available materials in any handouts, titles, or during your lecture...

https://www.byui.edu/documents/universi ... eement.pdf
Similar language for BYU-Provo. Faculty qualifications include: “Willingness to adhere to Education Week policy that prohibits promotion of any personal goods or services or any organization or its products.”

https://educationweek.BYU.edu/apply-to-teach

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

moksha wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:30 am
BENEFITS

Instructing at BYU-Idaho Education Week is a
volunteer experience; no monetary compensation is
offered to instructors. However, teachers and their
immediate family will receive complimentary full-event
passes that will allow them to attend any Education
Week class or event, provided seating is available. Also,
they will receive a no-waiting pass for Celestial Kingdom
entrance in lieu of monetary compensation. A full tithing
paid Temple recommendation must accompany the
no-waiting pass. Line monitors may detain all pass holders
who do not submit to mandatory pat-downs and rectal
probes searching for contraband. Thank you for contributing
to the BYU Education Week.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Made my day!
Makes my day even better that it will offend the righteousness of Lou, Kiwi and Dan. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Gadianton wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:20 am
I realize that some folks might be shocked over my ambitious theory that senior leadership at Interpreter is suppressing the release of the Witnesses film. I want to make it clear that I am not speaking for this board or any others on this board, only myself. I do plan to justify my position.

My first argument for what Reverend Kishkumen will one day put as the "Internal suppression of the Witnesses film" on his calendar of apologetics, for somewhere around March 2020 - Dec. 2020, is as follows:

The film and the witnesses testimony are hardly needed when the case is already rock solid. Do you need people to testify of the moon, when everyone already sees it at night?

A recent post on Sic et Non argues that if you believe that Barack Obama was a real historical person and not a social construct of commonalities between Abe Lincoln and JFK, then you are required to believe the gospels are real and therefore, that Jesus was a real historical person and the very son of God. And then in a related post on the reliability of the gospels, Kiwi57 writes:
Kiwi57 wrote: A real irony in this discussion is found where those who cheerfully trust secular histories - or Biblical accounts - from decades (or more) after the events they describe, but reject the First Vision accounts under the pretext that the official account was published 18 years after the event.
Right: if the Biblical accounts are trustworthy, then so is the First Vision account, therefore Joseph Smith was a prophet and the plates were real. So let's put it all together: If you believe Barack Obama is real and was president of the United States, then it follows immediately that Joseph Smith's first vision was real and that the Book of Mormon is true!

You don't need witness testimony!

So why have the witnesses? Because for a long time, there didn't exist logicians of the caliber of DCP and Kiwi57, and so it was the best God could do.
And this is precisely why I told Jersey Girl why I think they do not post here, but call it a sty or the devil's gate or whatever. Their ill logic is always exposed for what it is around here, a cesspool of thinking.I always enjoy reading your posts Gad. Very powerful! What kookiness we behold in Mopologetics, and now just sometimes, but day in and day out.

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Tom wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 9:57 am
Lemmie wrote:
Sun May 03, 2020 8:17 am
I don’t know if teachers are paid, but I’m sure this from the BYU-I education week Teacher’s Acceptance Agreement holds:

Similar language for BYU-Provo. Faculty qualifications include: “Willingness to adhere to Education Week policy that prohibits promotion of any personal goods or services or any organization or its products.”

https://educationweek.BYU.edu/apply-to-teach
I guess he's reasoning that, since the movie isn't yet "commercially available," and since he won't see "one dime" of profit, that it's okay per the rules?

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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Dr Scratch asked me how John Tvetdnes was squealched in his research showing Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29 had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. I am honestly not sure how he was told or who told him NOT to publish, but they were emphatic that the Saints were NOT ready for this information yet. It had nothing to do with his being wrong either. His context was superb. He couldn't even share a copy of it with me dang it. And now Charles Harrell's book has shown without doubt that the LDS context of any Bible prophecies of anything with Mormonism is simply a misread and wishful thinking. So we have it from that angle. I know Tvedtnes left Provo in a hurry to retire and moved all the way to the South in Arkansas or Alabama where his wife was from, and no one ever saw his research again. That always miffed me, but I am more than positive that political intrigues and bickering were a large part of it. He was getting more bitter by the day as the editors at FARMS were NOT using his materials. His last two books were published in non FARMS venues.

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