Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

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Kishkumen
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Kishkumen »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:04 pm
Dr Scratch asked me how John Tvetdnes was squealched in his research showing Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29 had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. I am honestly not sure how he was told or who told him NOT to publish, but they were emphatic that the Saints were NOT ready for this information yet. It had nothing to do with his being wrong either. His context was superb. He couldn't even share a copy of it with me dang it. And now Charles Harrell's book has shown without doubt that the LDS context of any Bible prophecies of anything with Mormonism is simply a misread and wishful thinking. So we have it from that angle. I know Tvedtnes left Provo in a hurry to retire and moved all the way to the South in Arkansas or Alabama where his wife was from, and no one ever saw his research again. That always miffed me, but I am more than positive that political intrigues and bickering were a large part of it. He was getting more bitter by the day as the editors at FARMS were NOT using his materials. His last two books were published in non FARMS venues.
Wow! What a bomb you've dropped, Philo! You make it sound like Tvedtnes had to get out before his faltering testimony collapsed on itself. Honestly, I never understood why any passage of scripture ever had to be properly interpreted to be useful. The scriptures are far more useful when they are creatively misinterpreted, which, more often than not, is where the revolutionary genius is to be found.

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Dr Moore
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Dr Moore »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:04 pm
Dr Scratch asked me how John Tvetdnes was squealched in his research showing Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29 had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. I am honestly not sure how he was told or who told him NOT to publish, but they were emphatic that the Saints were NOT ready for this information yet.
Holy hand grenade. Good thing we have people like John Gee to help juggle it for us.

Gadianton
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Gadianton »

Am I wrong or was it announced that the 1 M had been raised for the movie?

Am I wrong, or has it been documented that about 100k - 200k have been spent on it?

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

That was roughly my understanding so far about it Gad.

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

Kishkumen wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:22 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 12:04 pm
Dr Scratch asked me how John Tvetdnes was squealched in his research showing Ezekiel 37 and Isaiah 29 had nothing to do with the Book of Mormon. I am honestly not sure how he was told or who told him NOT to publish, but they were emphatic that the Saints were NOT ready for this information yet. It had nothing to do with his being wrong either. His context was superb. He couldn't even share a copy of it with me dang it. And now Charles Harrell's book has shown without doubt that the LDS context of any Bible prophecies of anything with Mormonism is simply a misread and wishful thinking. So we have it from that angle. I know Tvedtnes left Provo in a hurry to retire and moved all the way to the South in Arkansas or Alabama where his wife was from, and no one ever saw his research again. That always miffed me, but I am more than positive that political intrigues and bickering were a large part of it. He was getting more bitter by the day as the editors at FARMS were NOT using his materials. His last two books were published in non FARMS venues.
Wow! What a bomb you've dropped, Philo! You make it sound like Tvedtnes had to get out before his faltering testimony collapsed on itself. Honestly, I never understood why any passage of scripture ever had to be properly interpreted to be useful. The scriptures are far more useful when they are creatively misinterpreted, which, more often than not, is where the revolutionary genius is to be found.
I think he was retirement age when he left. I suspect it was the internal war(s) going on with him and Welch, and with Gee and Hauglid over the Book of Abraham defense. Tvedtnes didn't do a lot after his mnemonic theory was shown to be nothing after all. It was sort of cool in a way, but more coincidences than anything. I dunno whatever happened to Crapo after it all went out the window. Didn't hear from him much. I think it wasn't until afterward with the FARMS debacle and dismantling that one of the behind the scenes researchers, Robert Smith, joined the church. There was probably tension there, although he was really enamored with Hugh Nibley's research. I ended up with a copy of ALL his notes that Nibley partially used in his books, two FULL binders worth) Smith did a lot of footwork for Nibley so he could type. I also am aware that there was enormous strain with Nibley and Harris over the hypocephalus. Harris had collected and gathered far more than anyone else, and Nibley basically stole them from him for his own use. And Nibley along with Gee did not like Harris's materials. At the time as an apologist I LOVED them and wondered why NO ONE was quoting him or using him. I suspect they told him since Nibley is the greater scholar, Harris needed to see the big picture and not keep those for himself but let Nibley use them to build Zion. Stuff like this was happening behind the scenes all the time I suspect. I caught hints from both Tvedtnes and Roper that it was a hotbed at times. Tvedtnes complained rather bitterly to me once that he was about fed up with the bias at FARMS and Welch being such an ass for not printing one of his articles in the reprint of one of Welch's books. It was fresh new material and Welch chose to republish something old of his own, rather than include one of Tvedtnes's papers.

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Doctor Scratch
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Thanks very much for helping to fill in the blanks: I think that the Reverend is correct to characterize this as a "bombshell." It shows what we've suspected/known all along--i.e., that sometimes the Brethren censor what the Mopologists produce. It happened with the John Dehlin "hit piece," and the Brethren tried to do it with Royal Skousen's ridiculous work, but Skousen defiantly went his own way.

But this commentary is also revelatory (and hilarious) in the way that it lays bare all the egos that were in play. It really does sort of seem like Tvedtnes was basically "shoved out." Towards the end, as I recall, he was left having to make contributions on SHIELDS, which at that point was little more than a backwater.

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Philo Sofee
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Re: Will the "Witnesses" Movie be Released Direct-to-Video?

Post by Philo Sofee »

There is only one man on planet earth who has a testimony as staunch, solid, arrogant, and stalwart as Paul Osborne did, and that is Stan Barker, the owner of Shields.

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