So I read earlier, Cam's lengthy post and prepared a response. I'm just going to slap it up here and let it ride, because I have no desire to commit to anything sort of long term here and given the current state of the world, I'm not sure I ever will again. It's not formatted. I think it trails off in a few places. You can either wade your way through it or pass it by. For whatever it may be worth to you..or not. I'm not going to debate all this ____ into the ground. My thoughts about the time I spend here and it's actual worth to me have changed and I might write about that in Paradise.
"I'm willing to risk it all for my brothers, my kinsmen; willing to endure anything thrown my way, that maybe even one will know the peace that comes from a relationship with Christ."
So. Philosophically, and practically, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. How are you risking 'it all' by throwing around a few scriptures and telling us you love us? I don't see any risk at all. I see you getting a warm fuzzy for yourself and in your mind scoring a few brownie points with your Semitic deity. If anything, that seems self serving. And if the reward for witnessing is an eternal amazeballs existence, the risk-to-reward is wildly out of whack and risking "it all" just seems like a nonsense platitude.
Surely a smart man like you can understand the spirit of the passage that was written by the church planter Paul who risked his life to spread the Gospel according to the directives of Jesus the Christ as this words are portrayed in scripture and how to relate the sharing of the Gospel in modern times as well as the underlying motives when the motives are stated right in front of your eyes: " that maybe even one will know the peace that comes from a relationship with Christ". It isn't self serving, it's serving others in much the same way that one shares their goods and time with others during a pandemic. When I deliver an item of need to family members, which I have, I do it out of love. So do Christians deliver the message of hope and the impact of Christ out of love, empathy, and concern for others. In this case, not the bottles of alcohol to keep them healthy during a pandemic, but the accounts of demonstrations Christ's all inclusive love for mankind as a model to keep them spiritually healthy throughout their lives with a hope of eternity. It's no different than me offering you bottles of alcohol and saying, "Cam I've got a stash of alcohol I want to share with you, I hope it will help you survive this current health crisis" and Weaps saying to people "I want you to know the peace that comes with the Gospel" or Paul saying "I'm willing to risk my life to spread the Word to the world as Christ directed." It's all the same. It's all empathy based love and compassion for others.
Does that help?
It's no different than any other human's desire to help lift up another human being. Though, I recognize that some folks don't give two damns in hell about the other guy.
"... why would someone such as This [Jesus] deign come to a place like this [Golgotha] For such a person as me/us? And for the joy set before him."
So, again, we see how much Christians fundamentally hate themselves. "Deign?" My Lord this desert religion has really destroyed any sense of dignity you have in yourself. To believe you must throw yourself before a Jewish deity so you can absolve yourself of your own humanity in the hopes of getting some mental and emotional relief is just so sad. And to believe that if you keep begging forgiveness from this Middle Eastern god for simply being a human being so that some day you can hang out with Him in an awesome situation, whatever that is, is really, really sad.
Maybe you hated yourself as a Christian, I don't know. I've never hated myself, I doubt that Weaps hates herself either. I've totally felt like ____ for things I've done or said in life. I don't hate myself, I recognize myself as human and that I need to correct whatever took place as best as I can--is an apology needed? A self check on my behavior? A re-commitment to said behavior change? I don't know how you think of Christians as "begging for forgiveness". When I think of forgiveness, let's say I feel I've done something detrimental to the well being of someone else and I wish to acknowledge that to my God (in my case I talk it out) I am not begging for forgiveness. I believe that if I recognize the wrong in what I have done I take that to my God, talk it out (that probably sounds weird), I don't beg for forgiveness--I expect it. I don't know you choose to portray human beings as pathetic weaklings. I've never thought of myself as a pathetic weakling. Sure, I've had stuff to over come in life but I believe that I was created with qualities with which I can contribute to the world that my God put me in and my job is to develop whatever those traits are in order to make myself useful as a positive contributor to this world. Do I think atheists make positive contributions? Of course, I do. In my belief, the parts of me that allow me to positively contribute to those around me were formed by a Creator.
So what? That doesn't make me more special than my atheist friend or child. It's just that I see those qualities as having a different origin than my atheist friend or child. I don't assign those origins to believers only. I assign them to everyone. Whatever qualities that I have aren't more special than the science or tech guy, or the architect or musician, who has gifts I could never hope to have and who uses those gifts to forward the well being of their family, their community, or even the benefit of the global community. We are seeing the benefits of that pool of different minds than mine and my small skill set, to the global community. And yet, I think there's a place and purpose for me with my limited skill set in it and even in this current crisis.
You might hear a different perspective from my friend Weaps. You may see her express herself differently than I do. For sure, you are never going to see her tell anyone to ____ off like I might at times. We come from different beginnings, places and experiences in life. There's nothing you can put in front of her that she hasn't seen before. There's nothing you have to offer in your criticisms that are news to her. Like me, she's seen it all, she's read it all, she's considered it all and yet, while she comes from a place of love you and others see fit to ____ all over that. honor, for example, doesn't buy into God belief and yet, he sees the true intentions behind her words and thanks her for her expressions of good will.
I can tell you without question that Weaps isn't condescending to anyone here. She believes she has a gift to share with others. Like the alcohol in the pandemic. She wants you to know she has it, how it impacts her life and she'd like to share it with you. She wishes you well in all things in much the same way that I wish you well. The only reason I don't evangelize on this board or even in real life, is because I fully stink at it. It's not even in my wheelhouse and it never has been. Maybe she stinks at it. If you ask me, we all stink at something. And what is that to you?
Why not take ownership of your own brain? Look at the world for what it is, and set a course that works for your own self that nurtures family, self-improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind? You don't need a Semitic god for that. You don't need Wodin, or any number of deities for that. You don't need a fable that destroys your self-esteem only to build it up again with fantastic promises and legends of daring do's by faithful slaves to a foreign mysticism. Do away with their lies, their false promises, their fertile crescent snake oils, and bronze age nonsense. Be the master of your own spirit, and own your life and your eventual death. Embrace your temporariness, and use your one and only bit of time to plant the garden of your life where you're at. Stop looking forward to death and fantasy, and build your kingdom of you here on earth.
You ask a good question here. Why doesn't a Christian take ownership of their own brain? What makes you think that we don't? In the LDS church they refer to that as free agency. When we assess Jesus as God, who came in human form to serve as the living Word of God and God's ultimate object lesson (that's me talking in my own weird way, not Weaps), as speaking truth and we decide to strive to follow the example of Christ (all the way into eternity as we hope for) we are using our brains. You comment about setting a course when Jesus and his teachings ARE our chosen course that lead to our ideas about nurturing family, self improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind. You don't see any of those qualities in me, Cam? None of them?
Quite the contrary to what you say, a fable never destroyed my sense of self esteem. My sense of self esteem was ____ all to hell and back again in childhood. The Gospel in my view, is exactly what made me think I wasn't a piece of ____ and that no one is a really a piece of ____. That we're all on a journey, we all face challenges, we all have strengths and room for improvement, we've all been banged around one way or another, we all screw up, we all deserve a shot and and some support and understanding getting there.
If those ideas come from basic psychology, sociology, or philosophy (religious or otherwise) what possible difference does it make so long as we develop pro-social behaviors to the betterment of ourselves, others, our families, our local and extended community?
I know what Weaps does for a living. I know something about her personal relationships, her relationships with LDS, ex-LDS and her relationships with others who believe as she does. She is humble to a fault, she is kind, giving, and not afraid to throw herself into the support of another human being. Her entire life is devoted to service in one way or another. She's self critical, she strives toward improvement and she has confidence in her relationship with Jesus just like I do. She's as down to earth as the day is long.
Here, she has been met with (on the part of some) a kind of overblown toxic contempt. I've no doubt that she can handle it. She always does. I think it's disproportionate to the simple message in her OP. Maybe she stinks at evangelizing. I don't particularly think she does. I do know that she's living true to her dedication to share the Gospel with others because she believes they can benefit from it and I think that commitment to others is admirable. If she thinks she screwed something up, she'll take that to heart and reflect on it.
And you can take that to the bank and cash it, man.
Last edited by Jersey Girl
on Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.