A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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Lemmie
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Lemmie »


Would any of us be on here if God had not placed eternity in the hearts of men?
Sigh. Yes. Yes, we would. Given that a supernatural being you define as “God” does not exist, and therefore, being nonexistent it does not have the ability to place anything, let alone a concept of eternity in anyone’s heart, and also given that the heart is not the place of thoughts but rather the brain, yes we would indeed.

Also, just a minor point, but women have hearts and brains also.

My brothers, my kinsmen aren’t going to come to me. I’m willing to risk it all for my brothers, my kinsmen;
My mistake, this thread is for the boys. I will bow out now.

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Jersey Girl
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Jersey Girl »

Lemmie wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:15 pm

My brothers, my kinsmen aren’t going to come to me. I’m willing to risk it all for my brothers, my kinsmen;
My mistake, this thread is for the boys. I will bow out now.
Lemmie that's a scripture quote.

Lemmie
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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Jersey Girl wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:51 pm
Lemmie wrote:
Fri Apr 17, 2020 10:15 pm



My mistake, this thread is for the boys. I will bow out now.
Lemmie that's a scripture quote.
And?

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

"I'm willing to risk it all for my brothers, my kinsmen; willing to endure anything thrown my way, that maybe even one will know the peace that comes from a relationship with Christ."

So. Philosophically, and practically, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. How are you risking 'it all' by throwing around a few scriptures and telling us you love us? I don't see any risk at all. I see you getting a warm fuzzy for yourself and in your mind scoring a few brownie points with your Semitic deity. If anything, that seems self serving. And if the reward for witnessing is an eternal amazeballs existence, the risk-to-reward is wildly out of whack and risking "it all" just seems like a nonsense platitude.

"... why would someone such as This [Jesus] deign come to a place like this [Golgotha] For such a person as me/us? And for the joy set before him."

So, again, we see how much Christians fundamentally hate themselves. "Deign?" My Lord this desert religion has really destroyed any sense of dignity you have in yourself. To believe you must throw yourself before a Jewish deity so you can absolve yourself of your own humanity in the hopes of getting some mental and emotional relief is just so sad. And to believe that if you keep begging forgiveness from this Middle Eastern god for simply being a human being so that some day you can hang out with Him in an awesome situation, whatever that is, is really, really sad.

Why not take ownership of your own brain? Look at the world for what it is, and set a course that works for your own self that nurtures family, self-improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind? You don't need a Semitic god for that. You don't need Wodin, or any number of deities for that. You don't need a fable that destroys your self-esteem only to build it up again with fantastic promises and legends of daring do's by faithful slaves to a foreign mysticism. Do away with their lies, their false promises, their fertile crescent snake oils, and bronze age nonsense. Be the master of your own spirit, and own your life and your eventual death. Embrace your temporariness, and use your one and only bit of time to plant the garden of your life where you're at. Stop looking forward to death and fantasy, and build your kingdom of you here on earth.

- Doc

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:55 am
Why not take ownership of your own brain? Look at the world for what it is, and set a course that works for your own self that nurtures family, self-improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind? You don't need a Semitic god for that. You don't need Wodin, or any number of deities for that. You don't need a fable that destroys your self-esteem only to build it up again with fantastic promises and legends of daring do's by faithful slaves to a foreign mysticism. Do away with their lies, their false promises, their fertile crescent snake oils, and bronze age nonsense. Be the master of your own spirit, and own your life and your eventual death. Embrace your temporariness, and use your one and only bit of time to plant the garden of your life where you're at. Stop looking forward to death and fantasy, and build your kingdom of you here on earth.

- Doc
This.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by msnobody »

Out of the mouth comes what is in the heart.

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Jersey Girl
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Jersey Girl »

So I read earlier, Cam's lengthy post and prepared a response. I'm just going to slap it up here and let it ride, because I have no desire to commit to anything sort of long term here and given the current state of the world, I'm not sure I ever will again. It's not formatted. I think it trails off in a few places. You can either wade your way through it or pass it by. For whatever it may be worth to you..or not. I'm not going to debate all this ____ into the ground. My thoughts about the time I spend here and it's actual worth to me have changed and I might write about that in Paradise.
v
v
v

"I'm willing to risk it all for my brothers, my kinsmen; willing to endure anything thrown my way, that maybe even one will know the peace that comes from a relationship with Christ."

So. Philosophically, and practically, this doesn't make any sense whatsoever. How are you risking 'it all' by throwing around a few scriptures and telling us you love us? I don't see any risk at all. I see you getting a warm fuzzy for yourself and in your mind scoring a few brownie points with your Semitic deity. If anything, that seems self serving. And if the reward for witnessing is an eternal amazeballs existence, the risk-to-reward is wildly out of whack and risking "it all" just seems like a nonsense platitude.

Surely a smart man like you can understand the spirit of the passage that was written by the church planter Paul who risked his life to spread the Gospel according to the directives of Jesus the Christ as this words are portrayed in scripture and how to relate the sharing of the Gospel in modern times as well as the underlying motives when the motives are stated right in front of your eyes: " that maybe even one will know the peace that comes from a relationship with Christ". It isn't self serving, it's serving others in much the same way that one shares their goods and time with others during a pandemic. When I deliver an item of need to family members, which I have, I do it out of love. So do Christians deliver the message of hope and the impact of Christ out of love, empathy, and concern for others. In this case, not the bottles of alcohol to keep them healthy during a pandemic, but the accounts of demonstrations Christ's all inclusive love for mankind as a model to keep them spiritually healthy throughout their lives with a hope of eternity. It's no different than me offering you bottles of alcohol and saying, "Cam I've got a stash of alcohol I want to share with you, I hope it will help you survive this current health crisis" and Weaps saying to people "I want you to know the peace that comes with the Gospel" or Paul saying "I'm willing to risk my life to spread the Word to the world as Christ directed." It's all the same. It's all empathy based love and compassion for others.

Does that help?

It's no different than any other human's desire to help lift up another human being. Though, I recognize that some folks don't give two damns in hell about the other guy.

"... why would someone such as This [Jesus] deign come to a place like this [Golgotha] For such a person as me/us? And for the joy set before him."

So, again, we see how much Christians fundamentally hate themselves. "Deign?" My Lord this desert religion has really destroyed any sense of dignity you have in yourself. To believe you must throw yourself before a Jewish deity so you can absolve yourself of your own humanity in the hopes of getting some mental and emotional relief is just so sad. And to believe that if you keep begging forgiveness from this Middle Eastern god for simply being a human being so that some day you can hang out with Him in an awesome situation, whatever that is, is really, really sad.

Maybe you hated yourself as a Christian, I don't know. I've never hated myself, I doubt that Weaps hates herself either. I've totally felt like ____ for things I've done or said in life. I don't hate myself, I recognize myself as human and that I need to correct whatever took place as best as I can--is an apology needed? A self check on my behavior? A re-commitment to said behavior change? I don't know how you think of Christians as "begging for forgiveness". When I think of forgiveness, let's say I feel I've done something detrimental to the well being of someone else and I wish to acknowledge that to my God (in my case I talk it out) I am not begging for forgiveness. I believe that if I recognize the wrong in what I have done I take that to my God, talk it out (that probably sounds weird), I don't beg for forgiveness--I expect it. I don't know you choose to portray human beings as pathetic weaklings. I've never thought of myself as a pathetic weakling. Sure, I've had stuff to over come in life but I believe that I was created with qualities with which I can contribute to the world that my God put me in and my job is to develop whatever those traits are in order to make myself useful as a positive contributor to this world. Do I think atheists make positive contributions? Of course, I do. In my belief, the parts of me that allow me to positively contribute to those around me were formed by a Creator.

So what? That doesn't make me more special than my atheist friend or child. It's just that I see those qualities as having a different origin than my atheist friend or child. I don't assign those origins to believers only. I assign them to everyone. Whatever qualities that I have aren't more special than the science or tech guy, or the architect or musician, who has gifts I could never hope to have and who uses those gifts to forward the well being of their family, their community, or even the benefit of the global community. We are seeing the benefits of that pool of different minds than mine and my small skill set, to the global community. And yet, I think there's a place and purpose for me with my limited skill set in it and even in this current crisis.

You might hear a different perspective from my friend Weaps. You may see her express herself differently than I do. For sure, you are never going to see her tell anyone to ____ off like I might at times. We come from different beginnings, places and experiences in life. There's nothing you can put in front of her that she hasn't seen before. There's nothing you have to offer in your criticisms that are news to her. Like me, she's seen it all, she's read it all, she's considered it all and yet, while she comes from a place of love you and others see fit to ____ all over that. honor, for example, doesn't buy into God belief and yet, he sees the true intentions behind her words and thanks her for her expressions of good will.

I can tell you without question that Weaps isn't condescending to anyone here. She believes she has a gift to share with others. Like the alcohol in the pandemic. She wants you to know she has it, how it impacts her life and she'd like to share it with you. She wishes you well in all things in much the same way that I wish you well. The only reason I don't evangelize on this board or even in real life, is because I fully stink at it. It's not even in my wheelhouse and it never has been. Maybe she stinks at it. If you ask me, we all stink at something. And what is that to you?


Why not take ownership of your own brain? Look at the world for what it is, and set a course that works for your own self that nurtures family, self-improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind? You don't need a Semitic god for that. You don't need Wodin, or any number of deities for that. You don't need a fable that destroys your self-esteem only to build it up again with fantastic promises and legends of daring do's by faithful slaves to a foreign mysticism. Do away with their lies, their false promises, their fertile crescent snake oils, and bronze age nonsense. Be the master of your own spirit, and own your life and your eventual death. Embrace your temporariness, and use your one and only bit of time to plant the garden of your life where you're at. Stop looking forward to death and fantasy, and build your kingdom of you here on earth.

- Doc


You ask a good question here. Why doesn't a Christian take ownership of their own brain? What makes you think that we don't? In the LDS church they refer to that as free agency. When we assess Jesus as God, who came in human form to serve as the living Word of God and God's ultimate object lesson (that's me talking in my own weird way, not Weaps), as speaking truth and we decide to strive to follow the example of Christ (all the way into eternity as we hope for) we are using our brains. You comment about setting a course when Jesus and his teachings ARE our chosen course that lead to our ideas about nurturing family, self improvement, friendship, community, and the betterment of humankind. You don't see any of those qualities in me, Cam? None of them?

Quite the contrary to what you say, a fable never destroyed my sense of self esteem. My sense of self esteem was ____ all to hell and back again in childhood. The Gospel in my view, is exactly what made me think I wasn't a piece of ____ and that no one is a really a piece of ____. That we're all on a journey, we all face challenges, we all have strengths and room for improvement, we've all been banged around one way or another, we all screw up, we all deserve a shot and and some support and understanding getting there.

If those ideas come from basic psychology, sociology, or philosophy (religious or otherwise) what possible difference does it make so long as we develop pro-social behaviors to the betterment of ourselves, others, our families, our local and extended community?

I know what Weaps does for a living. I know something about her personal relationships, her relationships with LDS, ex-LDS and her relationships with others who believe as she does. She is humble to a fault, she is kind, giving, and not afraid to throw herself into the support of another human being. Her entire life is devoted to service in one way or another. She's self critical, she strives toward improvement and she has confidence in her relationship with Jesus just like I do. She's as down to earth as the day is long.

Here, she has been met with (on the part of some) a kind of overblown toxic contempt. I've no doubt that she can handle it. She always does. I think it's disproportionate to the simple message in her OP. Maybe she stinks at evangelizing. I don't particularly think she does. I do know that she's living true to her dedication to share the Gospel with others because she believes they can benefit from it and I think that commitment to others is admirable. If she thinks she screwed something up, she'll take that to heart and reflect on it.

And you can take that to the bank and cash it, man.
Last edited by Jersey Girl on Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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Jersey Girl, your previous post seemed a bit tangled till I figured out which parts were you speaking. I thought it was good and want to say thanks.

Hope you do not mind if I second your thought with a short note of what it reminded me of.

I hear Jesus say that we should think for our selves and take responsibility for ourselves others and the world we live in. Christianity teaches that we are valuable and can be strong. It teaches that we all , strong or struggling with defeat or rejection can say" i am somebody ", Christians can take hope in the words, respect yourself.

There are people usually for personal gain who try to cover this message over with rules and authority assertions.they may make people feel weak and afraid. They make people feel unworthy. They take money and control. I feel strongly such people should not be trusted. Some of them may do it believing they are protecting people. Others are conscious predators.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by DonBradley »

Awww, agape to you as well, "MsNobody," my friend.

I don't frequent the board so much these days, so I'm lucky I caught your thread! I guess ironically I owe it to the fact that people have extended the thread so longI taking you to task for it that I got to see it!

Thank you so much for your concern for others that brought you to these message boards starting, what, like 17 years ago when we first met , so that we could become friends.

By the way, I admire your ability to let your peace return to you, so to speak, in difficult conversations. I certainly want to be more like that! 😊

Don

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Jersey Girl
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Jersey Girl »

huck I added a few bells and whistles to make that more readable.

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DonBradley
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by DonBradley »

As will hopefully be obvious now, I am LLHWEAPS/MsNobody's unnamed friend.

We are old friends. We've known each other since ZLMB, along with other old timers like Shades, Jersey Girl, and others. We talked there on the board, and also on the chat room, and also via email and phone. We've been friends for at least 17 years.

When we first encountered each other ZLMB, I was a religious nonbeliever, having lost my faith in Mormonism. Weaps/MsNobody was always tremendously kind, and has been a good friend at all points during my subsequent spiritual journey.

During many of our early interactions, I was an agnostic and then an atheist. Weaps's efforts to extend faith in Christ to me were not something that, at that time, I resonated to. But I did recognize that having someone try to share faith with you isn't some sort of slight or insult. It's a compliment, a kindness--someone cares about you and wants you to be eternally happy.

If you have any doubt that you are being extended a kindness in this case, watch how gently Weaps responds to any provocations here.I think we all know how easy it is to take offense at what people say on the Internet. The fact that even when people are accusing her of lying, repeatedly taking her to task for her post, her faith, and her efforts to share that faith with others, she remains patient and kind in her responses shows the sincerity of her concern for others. This isn't someone here to win a fight, feed her ego by showing she's better than others, or any of that garbage. As she explained in her OP, she began participating on these boards because she cares about people.

I'd think that's a sort of kindness that may merit kindness in return, wouldn't you?

Don

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Jersey Girl »

I love you, Don Bradley. She would have never named you. And, who could make up the journey of Don Bradley?

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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“Who was your friend?”

“Don Bradley.”

“Oh, cool. He used to post here quite a bit. He’s a good guy.”

Instead we got this oddity: “Not gonna talk about it. Just kidding, I’ll talk about vaguely. Also, I love you.”

And finally the big reveal: “It was me!”

Whatever the case may be, I’ll address Jersey Girl’s comments tomorrow.

- Doc

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Jersey Girl »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Sun Apr 19, 2020 12:11 am
“Who was your friend?”

“Don Bradley.”

“Oh, cool. He used to post here quite a bit. He’s a good guy.”

Instead we got this oddity: “Not gonna talk about it. Just kidding, I’ll talk about vaguely. Also, I love you.”

And finally the big reveal: “It was me!”

Whatever the case may be, I’ll address Jersey Girl’s comments tomorrow.

- Doc
A bunch of us knew each other from other boards and in this case from Z. I haven't seen anyone on this thread who knows her say a word against her and there's at least 5 of us on this thread. Why does it look like you want her to prove herself to you? Did anyone expect that of you when you got here? ____, if that's the case then you failed a ton of times and just as many times as you failed, you succeeded.

In my eyes at least. We're all human.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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“Why does it look like you want her to prove herself to you?”

That’s your perception issue, not mine.

“Did anyone expect that of you when you got here?”

If I showed up, mentioned that a friend posted here and asked me why I, of all people, wanted to post here, I would think it’s natural that at least some might be curious as to who the friend was. I find it bizarre that I got a sort of cagey non-answer, and then a sort of ‘vaguebooking’ answer.

“Hello everyone, I was talking to a friend about this place, and they inspired me to post here.”

“Neato. Who was your friend?”

“Oh, I would never divulge that to you guys.”

“Wtf?”

“Ok, I’ll divulge a bit. And I love you.”

“What’s going on here?”

“Hey, guys I’m the friend!”

“Oh, yeah. I know that guy. Cool.”

“Why were you such an asshole to our amazing friend and super sweet spirit, Vaguebook?”

“I’m sorry? I guess?”

- Doc

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

“Out of the mouth comes what is in the heart.”

That’s some really deep Christian theology, man. Here’s another:

“Into thine tummy what passeth, through thine teeth and through thine gums, watcheth outeth for here it cometh.”

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

all right. Let’s take a look at what you got.

“Surely a smart man like you can understand the spirit of the passage... It's all the same. It's all empathy based love and compassion for others.”

I believe you believe that. I don’t particularly think anyone is risking anything evangelizing to people on the Internet. Like, if you’re earning some gold coins with Jesus, I could see Jesus maybe tossing one your way for vaguebooking on MormonDiscussions.com, but I’m sure Paul got a nice satchel full for his blue collar work ethic. Big difference, and an even bigger difference of respect is afforded between the two.

“It's no different than any other human's desire to help lift up another human being.”

It’s fundamentally different. Weird that you can’t see that.

”tl;dr - Jersey Girl doesn’t hate herself”

Could you get into Heaven without a belief and faith in Jesus Christ?

“I can tell you without question that Weaps isn't condescending to anyone here. She believes she has a gift to share with others. Like the alcohol in the pandemic.“

Yeah. One thing is just larping, and the other thing actually exists. One thing is easy to share, and the other thing requires an actual sacrifice in that you presumably earned that alcohol and now you’re giving it away for free. One earns you good will with sexy Jesus in heaven, and the other earns you good will with a real, tangible human being.

“And what is that to you?”

Well, it’s nothing to me until someone starts a dialogue and then acts cagey, and then acts vague, and then acts like a passive-aggressive victim because I don’t care for what they’re peddling where I don’t think what they’re doing makes any sense outside of larping for Jesus. Remember. She came to a discussion board that has lax moderation, so we’re both free to treat the topic how we see fit. Quite frankly, had she just been open and honest and talked a bit about her friend I would’ve been, “Oh. Cool.”

”You ask a good question here. Why doesn't a Christian take ownership of their own brain? What makes you think that we don't?”

Uh. Because Christians generally believe they’re being forgiven by an external force. How is this a mystery to you?

”If those ideas come from basic psychology, sociology, or philosophy (religious or otherwise) what possible difference does it make so long as we develop pro-social behaviors to the betterment of ourselves, others, our families, our local and extended community?”

You just demonstrated the irrelevance of religion. Why do you need a mythological father figure to make you feel good about who you are, and then inspire you to project that outward? In the same vein, why is it so often that we see the same deity render virtually no change in the believer where they’re still an asshole and levy suffering on the world, despite their belief? I’m sure it occurred to you that it’s the person, and not the faith nor the deity that makes for a decent human being.

”Here, she has been met with (on the part of some) a kind of overblown toxic contempt.”

Easy with the victim routine. We get it. Christians love to take one for the team. She is not a victim. She chose to come to Shady Acres and witness. She’s stronk and powerful.

Just a reminder, that while y’all wringing your hands over her terrible treatment *rolling eyes* Christians had a long and bloody history of spreading their religion at the point of a sword (look up the judgement of Verdun* for one of thousands upon thousands of examples of their vicious barbarism). I’ll not apologize for side eyeing y’all when you’re clutching your pearls over the oppression you seem to receive here from the free folk.

- Doc

* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Verden
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Sun Apr 19, 2020 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

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Don wrote:During many of our early interactions, I was an agnostic and then an atheist. Weaps's efforts to extend faith in Christ to me were not something that, at that time, I resonated to.
May you return to us one day, Don.
But I did recognize that having someone try to share faith with you isn't some sort of slight or insult.
That depends. I don't think msn has any bad motives, however, anyone who has had extensive interaction with born again Christians has been on the receiving end of insults under the guise of sharing faith, repeatedly.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by msnobody »

One thing I have learned in recent years is that if I trust God to draw people to himself and not look to the creation to do so, but to the Creator to do this, I am able to love and accept a person regardless of where they are in their spiritual journey. Not negating that each person has a responsibility toward God. Anything else would be a breach in my faith/trust in God.

We are all on a spiritual journey, each at his or her own place, and will be until we take that last breath here on earth. The thing is, we don't know when that last breath will be. We are appointed once to die, then face judgement. There is a living hope anchored to the very throne of God; eternal life, or, there is spiritual death; separated eternally from God. At some point, we all have to make a choice to accept and embrace the one who is Life or reject and turn away. Hence the urgency of the message I bring.

Faith or trust is only as good as its foundation. When the foundation bruises that faith, I know it is difficult to trust again.

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Lemmie »


We are appointed once to die, then face judgement. There is a living hope anchored to the very throne of God; eternal life, or, there is spiritual death; separated eternally from God. At some point, we all have to make a choice to accept and embrace the one who is Life or reject and turn away.
Nope.

I do get the urge to knock on wood every time I tell someone I never get water in my basement, though. Just so I don’t jinx it, because of course knocking on wood will prevent that. Same thing, right?

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Re: A friend asked why am I here on MormonDiscussions.com

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Where does one draw the line with Christian faith-insanity? I don’t know if you know this, but this televangelist blew the wind of God on COVID-19 and it’s no more:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMkyDS5ULts

Go ahead. Click on the link and watch that absolutely ____, ____ insanity. How is this any different from someone urging one to turn to some imagination figure that will... do something... sometime... for some reason... because love or something... because heaven or whatever other vague and ambiguous terms believers throw around that basically allow you to fill in the meaning for yourself.

Cool.

- Doc

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