Dunnisms from Midgley

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Gadianton
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Gadianton »

That’s quite a telling statement from the master dissembler.


That thread is really interesting. It appears that the tactics have changed. Gemli is being patronized by the apologists in a developing battle strategy, and of course, the brilliant Dr. Detroit, who I believe holds two Phds and is running for the Senate, is calling out the obvious -- with a little more subtlety than Gemli's patronizers, of course.

Gemli is his own man, you can't say otherwise. He seems impervious not only to what the religionists of SeN think but to his supporters as well. He may be the most a-political poster I've ever seen. So it shall be interesting, if these tactics to win Gemli over as a dissident voice against the recent influx of real Phds on SeN, fail to work, will the sugar turn to spit?

I can't say whether this is what we're seeing here or not, I'm not leveling any accusations, but I will say that in abusive relationships (employer/employee, spouse, friends, working associates), the abuser is charming and protective, complimentary, and bonds to her or his target in a very real way that is not at all cold and premeditated. Those drawn in may or may not be won over, but perhaps polite and reciprocating as a mater of courtesy, and then time tells if the target refuses to be molded, or decides to go in a different direction as far as association goes.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Gadianton »

Breaking News: Gemli is now getting up-votes from the apologists.

I'm grabbing popcorn. This is going to be one of those "episode 5" plot-twists I think.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

Lemmie
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Lemmie »

Wait a sec, something is not making sense.
Midgley wrote:Ben:

I very much appreciate your calling my attention to the very obvious mistake I made when I wrote the following: "Immediately after it appeared in print," which as you correctly pointed out was a silly, careless mistake on my part--that is, not possible.

I submitted that essay to the Era many months before President McKay passed away. And there was much back and forth over the contents of my essay. Since what I had written was back then seen as both novel and sensitive, Jay Todd, then the editor, had to have it approved by those who both could and then did approve it.
When it was approved, I then received a call from Jay in which he indicated exactly what I said about President McKay's remarks. I asked Jay, if I should make additional changes because of what President McKay had said. I was a bit annoyed because I could see the approval process dragging on and on. Jay then explained that it had been approved as it was. This was a relief, since the editorial back and forth had raised the distint possibility that what I had written and then revised several time would never appear in print. I could have lived with that.


So midgley says that even though the editor in chief and then- president of the LDS church objected to the language, it was approved and would be printed. But that wasn’t done until SEVEN MONTHS after the editor in chief and then-president of the LDS church passed away, and likely more than several years after McKay was cogent enough to make such phone calls. Recall he was so ill in the 60s that the last time he spoke in General Conference was 1966.

Midgley then immediately follows up that explanation with this sentence:
Midgley:

One must keep in mind that John Sorenson's two part essay setting out a limited geography for the Book of Mormon had to wait for the death of an Apostle before it appeared in the Era.


Is midgley suggesting what I think he’s suggesting? The alternative explanation requires that a lowly editor and other “approvers” override the President of the LDS church to approve words that McKay didn’t want used.

I think Midgley has a made up story here, and he is digging himself into a quite untenable hole with his attempts to scramble and dissemble in a story he can’t justify.

All to support the “I don’t know that we ever taught that” version of using the Mormon name. Sad.

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

It's clear The Midge is still lying about this whole narrative. Lemmie is right, it's highly unlikely McKay would've been involved in the Church's daily operations, such as phone calls over an article written by The Midge, due to his advanced illness. So. Once again, we see that a Mopologist can never, ever, EVER admit to wrongdoing and instead will just double down on their lying.

Speaking of lying and falsehoods and Dunnisms...

Mr. Peterson continues to double down on the mysterious MormonDiscussions.com poster who's been sending him nastygrams:

DanielPeterson Mod -> Kiwi57 • an hour ago • edited

I'm sorry for in any way encouraging you, if I did, to go and post over there.

My advice? Don't do it again. That way lies madness.

Nothing can come of a believer's posting there but ridicule and frustration.

I left the hate site many years ago, on the advice of several people, including at least two of the less hostile posters there, that, once I was gone, the more obsessive haters would tire of defaming me. However, as I expected, they didn't. They haven't. They've never even paused.

One of them, in fact, has continued to reach out to me with hundreds of anonymous and often obscene emails over the past seven years -- commencing, I think, at roughly the time that I left the hate site. ( I've already received one of his communications this morning.)

Trying to correct or reason with them is futile. In my case, certainly, they've already developed their malevolent conclusions. The only things that change are the particular excuses for slandering me on any given day and the specific angles of attack.


We were recently treated to some content created by this mysterious MormonDiscussions.com poster, shared by Mr. Peterson himself that was along the lines of, "You nerferding meany dan i gonna get yew real gud." You'll note much like the 2nd Watson Letter and The Schryver Essays, this apocrypha is simply concocted as a convenient tool to use at their discretion. No one actually believes Mr. Peterson has hundreds of emails from a mysterious MormonDiscussions.com poster.

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Sat Aug 24, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by moksha »

Doctor Steuss wrote:Isn’t it wonderful and marvelous that the veil was so thin that President McKay could communicate with Jay Todd from the Spirit World?

My testimony is strengthened by Brother Midgley’s sacred experience of receiving divine guidance from beyond the veil.

Makes you wonder whether President McKay viewed the future day when Mormon would be revealed as a "devil word" to be avoided and was passing on that knowledge to his favorite servant Brother Midgley.
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Philo Sofee »

Moksha
Makes you wonder whether President McKay viewed the future day when Mormon would be revealed as a "devil word" to be avoided and was passing on that knowledge to his favorite servant Brother Midgley.


After all the Brethren need the scholars, because all they have is the Holy Ghost to help them. The scholars have Ph.d's!
"Stupid work deserves to be ridiculed." Very well: stupid Mopologists deserve to be ridiculed, too! -Dr. Scratch-

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Apparently, the Paul H. Dunn-Kruger effect isn’t limited to The Midge and Mr. Peterson. Here’s Stephen “Woke as ____” Smoot ripping off A Pilgrim’s Progress (helpfully linked from Mr. Peterson himself, of course)

https://www.plonialmonimormon.com/2019/ ... gress.html

An excerpt:

“Life was perfect for the “forever family” of Sue, Jim, and baby Dallin, and it was all thanks to the Church and the gospel.

Then one day, while she was innocently scrolling through Facebook, Sue saw a friend of hers comment about something called the “CES Letter” and how he was leaving the Church because of it. Sue was disheartened, perplexed, and saddened. In the back of her mind she had a nagging desire to read this “CES Letter,” if only to prove how stupid it was, but she remembered being told never to read “anti-Mormon” literature. Anti-Mormons, and those who left the Church, were nothing but bitter, selfish, and deceived individuals who, sadly, had allowed Satan to cloud their minds. They had all lost the Spirit, and were nothing but proud, vain, and stiffnecked. (And a good number of them, like the ones who picket at Temple Square during General Conference, were just in it for the money.)”

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Lemmie »

.So Smoot trashes people, but in the comments, in what I assume is an attempt to slur someone else, outs himself as the go-to source for his collection of bestiality and anime/manga porn.

Lance
August 21, 2019 at 10:04 pm | Reply
Lol, I don’t care that you posted that drivel, just that it does you no good, Mr Bukkake. [wink]

Stephen Smoot
August 21, 2019 at 10:10 pm | Reply
See, it sounds to me like you do care. You’re obviously emotionally invested in your newfound identity enough that you took the time to come here and leave a long comment.

In any event, give my regards to Bill Reel. Let him know that if he is ever interesting in expanding his collection of Tapir Hentai, he knows who to talk to.


I had to look up the word, hentai:
Outside of Japan, hentai (変態 or へんたい; About this soundlisten (help·info) English: /ˈhɛntaɪ/; lit. "pervert") is anime and manga pornography.


Or maybe he just thinks it’s super edgy to be in the know about such topics. Like an immature 12 year old with very bad older influences. :rolleyes: I don’t understand Smoot. He is a disgusting person. He does more harm for his religion than any of the people he trashes.

By the way, how does CruiseLady feel about this part of his essay?
When they had saved up enough money, they eagerly planned on going on one of Dehlin’s much-hyped cruises;


Like the way those cruises to ‘Book of Mormon Lands’ are “much-hyped”?

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Dr. Shades »

Stephen Smoot wrote:In the back of her mind she had a nagging desire to read this “CES Letter,” if only to prove how stupid it was, but she remembered being told never to read “anti-Mormon” literature.

Wait, WHAT?? The Mopologists have insisted for years that nobody in the church tells anyone else in the church not to read anti-Mormon literature!!
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Dr Moore »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Stephen Smoot wrote:In the back of her mind she had a nagging desire to read this “CES Letter,” if only to prove how stupid it was, but she remembered being told never to read “anti-Mormon” literature.

Wait, WHAT?? The Mopologists have insisted for years that nobody in the church tells anyone else in the church not to read anti-Mormon literature!!


Where is that stated? I still take it for granted that the church discourages exploring beyond the approved sources.

I was just in a stake leadership training and the 1st SP counselor pounded on the pulpit about keeping ourselves, and our kids, away from those "absolute poison" websites. He did not get the memo that it's ok to read anything?

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Lemmie »

Smoot:

I've been around the Internet long enough to know that your typical ex-Mormon grasp of actual "apologetic" arguments (as opposed to the MormonThink caricatures of the same) is, shall we say, lacking.


Your “typical ex-Mormon”? Smoot has made it clear where he gets his information. Proudly sharing the bukkake and manga porn knowledge he’s gained by playing a board game that discriminates and stereotypes with equal opportunity filth is not exactly an erudite path.

His fixation on the exmormon subreddit, a sub that admittedly is perpetually stuck at a barely past prepubescent level, is quite telling. Has his misogynistic porn fixation never allowed him to investigate other locations? You know, where he might find the grown-ups?

r/mormonscholar, and r/Mormon come to mind, as well as this forum, newordermormon.net, even mormondialogue would introduce him to the adults with thoughtful points re LDS issues.

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by grindael »

This is simply too hilarious, this thread! I'm just chucklin' my ass off and then the Smuut ____ hits the fan! And so I just have to read the comments over there at Phoney Maroney and lo and behold, look at what the Smuutster gifted the world with!


Greg Bell
August 21, 2019 at 11:42 pm | Reply
I just googled bukkakke, and wish I hadn’t. I’m not sure why this is being brought up in this thread so often.


Stephen Smuut
August 21, 2019 at 11:59 pm | Reply
About a year ago, as I recall, I was arguing with one of Bill Reel’s followers on his Facebook page about something or other to do with the burden of proof. I made the point that you cannot prove a negative, and it is fallacious to expect somebody to do so. My interlocutor was disputing my argument. To put a fine point on it, because Tapirs have become a stupid ex-Mormon meme, I made some offhand joke along the lines of: “Well you can’t prove that you and Bill Reel don’t watch Tapir Bukkake.” It was purposefully over-the-top because I had lost all patience with Reel and his cult-like followers.

I didn’t think much of it at the time since I blocked Reel and then left Facebook altogether not long thereafter. It was just a throwaway joke made in the heat of a Facebook argument. Recently, however, because he’s a compulsive weirdo who is desperate for any kind of relevancy or notoriety, Reel devoted some time on his podcast breaking down this episode from his perspective. (Because normal, healthy, non-obsessive human beings compulsively hoard Facebook comments from a year ago and dredge them up to score points against people long after the thing has died down.) In his podcast, he basically implied that I must be some kind of pervert because I know what bukakke is to begin with. What he’s too stupid or dishonest to realize is that, instead of me being a pervert, I know what bukakke is because I know what Urban Dictionary is, I sometimes play Cards Against Humanity with my friends, and I know what memes are.

Because Reel’s cult-followers are even more unoriginal than he is, they’ve since tried to somehow shame me by calling me Mr. Bukakke, not realizing that I am utterly incapable of caring what Reel or his sycophants think about me, especially when it comes to the occasional off-color jokes I make, and so their efforts to shame me are entirely in vain.

I mean…that and also because I’m a hollowed-out husk of a human being who is dead inside, obviously.


I know what bukakke is because I know what Urban Dictionary is, I sometimes play Cards Against Humanity with my friends


Really? Just ... Really? So... I googled "Cards against humanity Bukakke" and lo and behold this showed up... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15pS4VORbgM

A "throwaway joke"?? :eek: Why in the world would he be playing that game? Or did he just google "Bukakke" and find the video and a ready made excuse for his perversion? I love how these guys invent these stories and just make everything so much worse.... keeps me chucklin' all the live long day...

Image

And this, this is simply priceless...

What he’s too stupid or dishonest to realize is that, instead of me being a pervert, I know what bukakke is because I know what Urban Dictionary is, I sometimes play Cards Against Humanity with my friends, and I know what memes are.

Sure, sure he explained all that to Bill Reel, right, right!!??? Only a stupid or dishonest person would think that someone that makes "throwaway jokes' using THAT WORD, would associate it with perversion, right? :rolleyes: Bill should have gone right to the URBAN DICTIONARY! It would have been all cleared up, right? Or better yet, play twisted and perverted GAMES with your "friends" and you'll learn all about THAT WORD, right? :lol:

Nope, you can't make this ____ up. Only in the world of Mopology... Mopology... Mopology...

Image

Yeah, he doesn't care.... that's why he's left us with the long, pathetic fairy tale about how he learned what THAT WORD means.

Image
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by I have a question »

Just for reference:
Cards Against Humanity is a party game in which players complete fill-in-the-blank statements using words or phrases typically deemed as offensive, risqué or politically incorrect printed on playing cards. It has been compared to the 1999 card game Apples to Apples[1] and originated from a Kickstarter campaign in 2011.[1] Its title refers to the phrase "crimes against humanity", reflecting its politically incorrect content.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cards_Against_Humanity
“When we are confronted with evidence that challenges our deeply held beliefs we are more likely to reframe the evidence than we are to alter our beliefs. We simply invent new reasons, new justifications, new explanations. Sometimes we ignore the evidence altogether.” (Mathew Syed 'Black Box Thinking')

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Gadianton »

On the "He has not created me for naught" thread, Billy Shears responds to Smoot's argument, saying that ex-Mormons love to read apologetic material, and Smoot objects, noting all the technical material the apologists have produced, such as Gee's stuff, that he doesn't think the average ex-Mormon has mastered. Of course, the direction he's going is that should one study Gee and disagree, one isn't qualified to do so without learning Egyptian, and then what about all the other ancient languages that could be relevant? One could never, in principle, leave the Church, because there wouldn't be time to master the relevant topics and most wouldn't have the capacity for it anyway.

If he were born into Scientology, could he never leave it because somewhere out there, there is a argument or perspective about it that he hadn't yet considered?
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by grindael »

I have a question wrote:Just for reference:
Cards Against Humanity is a party game in which players complete fill-in-the-blank statements using words or phrases typically deemed as offensive, risqué or politically incorrect printed on playing cards. It has been compared to the 1999 card game Apples to Apples[1] and originated from a Kickstarter campaign in 2011.[1] Its title refers to the phrase "crimes against humanity", reflecting its politically incorrect content.[2]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cards_Against_Humanity


Yes, something I'm sure all the faithful followers of Jesus spend a lot of time playing. I mean, it just reeks of the teachings of Jesus and his apostles and modern Mormonism. I'm sure the First Presidency and Council of Twelve play it whenever they get together with "friends" and that they know all about THAT WORD and what it means and all the dirty, nasty memes that are out there on the internet today. Yup, I'm sure that this is something that, unlike all the arguments from Mopology, the average Mormon can grasp and understand and know all about. What an astute, cogent argument from Smuut! Irrefutable! Anyone who doesn't believe it just has to be "stupid" or "dishonest", unlike the fine, upstanding Mr. (THAT WORD), Stephen Smuut.

And isn't the can't learn everything argument just another way to say put it on a SHELF and it will all be answered in the afterlife. Now where have we heard that before? Didn't Mopologists like Smuut invent that?
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by moksha »

I see Steve's usage of Tapir Hentai being one more hint of his secret attraction to Dr. Peterson. Too bad Steve could not get Dr. Peterson to dress up as a brony for a little harmless wrestling. Just two bronies engaged in horseplay, with the younger one feeling to older brony's oats.

Hope that was a pleasant fantasy, Steve. You're welcome.

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by grindael »

Hope that was a pleasant fantasy...


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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Gadianton »

Young Smoot may ought to sit back and think about just what kind of a war he's fighting. On these boards we talk about it like an objective problem to solve and perhaps it is, and critics know that the consensus of every field of inquiry is far away from taking seriously anything in Mormonism. The apologists disagree, allegedly believing that they have the finest scholars around who are experts in those fields, and who believe, and with plausible explanations that at worst are underdog theories, not given due consideration by other scholars out of prejudice.

But really, all of this is just an entertaining aside to the real problem of losing faith. I don't think I have a perfect grasp of this, but I'm pretty sure I get it better than young smoot, or "Crucible of Doubt" and associates. Being a typical generational Mormon is like being all-in on a highly leveraged position. Mormonism expects a lot in terms of commitment, and worse, member culture advertises the commitment as part of the investment. The reward is all the mystery and joys of "the Eternities", but it all depends on this tiny window of opportunity. The risks are real, as Dr. Shades has recently reminded us, even God himself is "all-in" as he could "cease to be God" at any time if he screws up just a little bit.

Excellence, achievement, 5.0 grade-point averages on a 4.0 scale all become a part of his uber-position taken on the big bet. At the heart of the whole thing is the restoration narrative, with Joseph Smith having lived a morally exemplar life from a young age, refusing alcohol before even knowing what it was; wise, able to confound the greatest intellects and translate documents that not even the Doctors could, but temperate; all this greatness didn't make him a stiff, he could wrestle with the kids and have a good time with the best of them.

And Mormon culture literally is cyclonic reinforcement of the narrative. From competitiveness, to testimonies, to odd spiritual encounters, to making doubt uncool -- it all reinforces this vision of grandeur and the big wager everyone is taking to score the eternities.

It's like watching Jascha Heifetz perform a difficult peace and suddenly, he hits a sour note. How do you even process that? Well, you can't. All it takes is hearing that one little piece of information and the leveraged position is in trouble. It's not like the apologists try to sell it: maybe they've got a stalemate in terms of what we can prove, or maybe we've got 51% odds and still ahead. It doesn't matter, because for a TBM, all that needs to happen is the underlying asset price to drop by 1$ and the world crumbles. On the third or fourth sour note, most are going to be in damage control mode.

Unfortunately, no amount of scholarship can fix that. The only possibility is for Mormonism to re-invent itself somehow, the apologists are trying, the Brethren are trying, new offerings of misdirection in FIRM or Snuffer to keep the cyclone spinning are on the table. We just see how it goes, but I'm pretty sure out of the various options, the Gee school learning Egyptology first and then get back to us about those two inks isn't going to work, no matter how loudly young Smoot screams it at people.
FARMS refuted:

"...supporters of Billy Meier still point to the very clear photos of Pleiadian beam ships flying over his farm. They argue that for the photos to be fakes, we have to believe that a one-armed man who had no knowledge of Photoshop or other digital photography programs could have made such realistic photos and films..." -- D. R. Prothero

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

That was a great post, Dr. Gad. Excellent observations.

As loathe as I am to give the surveillor's over at the COB any bright ideas (they did, after all, get 'inoculation' and 'mainstreaming' from this board), they really ought to stick to a sort of gnostic Christianity when we're talking about Mormonism and the restoration. Really focus in on personal revelation guided by the Q12. All the Book of Mormon and Book of Abraham and D&C should be examples of personal gnostic revelation that are mysterious products of godly revelation, where not only how they were revealed a mystery (stick to the catalyst theories, guys, it's your only chance), but they themselves are catalysts for your very own and very personal mystical experience as you navigate this life.

Beyond that, and most importantly, Mormonism has to, and I mean it has to, become again fraternity for the men, and a sorority for the women, with real, tangible, lifestyle and structural benefits to current and upcoming generations, or it's going away. Belonging to the religion can't be a crucible of pablum and business meetings. It's not a ____ job, brethren. There needs to be men doing men things, and women doing women things. There needs to be relationship building, real relationship building, built through activities that are fun, creative, challenging, and needful in the sense the things being done in the church fill a void that the larger overall society or the smaller family unit can't.

And if all that is too tall an order, then just keep doing what you're doing and focus on your transition to becoming a large real estate corporation managing and acquiring its assets. You're at least good at that.

- Doc
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.

Understanding the world as an amoral, chaotic system that is in a constant flux of competing entities all driven by an innate biological determinism is both redpilled and blackpilled.

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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Dr Exiled »

I think Smoot might need to jettison his mopologist friends and avoid the idea that everyone who doesn't believe in Mormonism is somehow defective. It seems pretty obvious it is the other way around. DCP, Midge and the like, with their attack style Mormon apologetics do a disservice to Smoot and to where the church should be heading. Also, I don't think he does well when he is on the attack. Humility, open acknowledgement of problems, and an attitude of choosing Mormonism despite its flaws is where I think apologetics should be. Attacking the questioner when your pushing something akin to a flat-earth just makes one look desperate and pushes more out.
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Re: Dunnisms from Midgley

Post by Lemmie »

Probably more of a strategy than a lie, but still pretty entertaining:
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Louis Midgley
an hour ago

I just had to smile as Dan recounts the opinions of his critics. The fact is that, if I actually have these kinds of critics, I have only perhaps twice in many years noticed that they exist...

Reply
:rolleyes:
Posted by midgley, June 28, this year:
Louis Midgley

I have recently received three Google Alerts that send me to a despicable message board, whose owner represents himself as Dr. Shades. Virtually every item that mentions me is false in most every possible way. And also filled with a strange and unhealthy and unnecessary hatred. What these alerts also indicate is that quite a few people spend a great deal of time going over and over what gets posted on this blog.

There are people who can't seem to spit or swallow when it comes to the Church of Jesus Christ. .

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Or maybe that’s just how he manages to sleep at night, after unnecessarily, unhealthily, and STRANGELY hating on any non-lds commenters he runs across.

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