BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by DrW »

Shulem wrote:
Maksutov wrote:What he said.


But what do you say, 1-10? I don't believe you've voted, Maksutov. You need to voice your opinion so I can add you to the list.

My vote would be in the 90% range, so 9.0 it is.
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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."

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Re: NEW BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

DrW wrote:My vote would be in the 90% range, so 9.0 it is.


Thank you for chiming in and voicing your vote, DrW. It's hard to imagine that the area in front of the face wasn't originally a snout. The grain of the cuts and swipes and grooves used by engraving tools sure looks fishy. Just looking at it makes one wonder, "What happened to the snout"? The jackal's eye survived as did the ear, proudly erect. So where oh where did the snout go?

From what I gather, Joseph Smith committed 3 fatal errors against the god Anubis:

1. Declared he was a slave
2. Called him Olimlah which isn't even Egyptian
3. Deformed him by hacking off his snout

Joseph Smith's presentation is fraudulent in every way. It's offensive and defames the religion of the ancient Egyptians.

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

I respectively request that mentalgymnast please vote his conscience about the missing jackal snout in the Facsimile No. 3 printing plate. It only takes a moment to enter your opinion: 1-10.

Thank you in advance.

[ ] mentalgymnast

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

Still waiting for mentalgymnast to respond:

THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3

Shulem wrote:I respectively request that mentalgymnast please vote his conscience about the missing jackal snout in the Facsimile No. 3 printing plate. It only takes a moment to enter your opinion: 1-10.

Thank you in advance.

[ ] mentalgymnast


It tickled me to see this on Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum:

baura wrote:The original woodcut still exists for facsimile 3. The
Anubis/Olimlah character evidently had a snout (like a jackal)
which was whittled down. On the woodcut you can see how it's
been chipped away to make a rounder, more-human face. But
there's absolutely, positively no question that the original had
a representation of jackal-headed Anubis.

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

Spotted a typo: "I am Osirs!" Should be "I am Osiris!"
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

Runtu wrote:Spotted a typo: "I am Osirs!" Should be "I am Osiris!"


Jesus H Christ! I Can't believe I did that. I'll have to fix it later --I don't remember the password to log on. lol

I find it amazing that the LDS church is still pretending that make-believe Hebrew Abraham is sitting atop an Egyptian throne in the image, form, and name of Osiris. The LDS church has no shame for their sacrilegious slander against the ancient Egyptian religion. The LDS church is guilty of slandering an entire race in an effort to supplant perverted lies in a modern day cover-up of international proportions.

Shame on the LDS church! Their leaders and apologists are wretched scum of the earth. Liars, all of them.

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

Shulem wrote:Jesus H Christ! I Can't believe I did that. I'll have to fix it later --I don't remember the password to log on. lol

I find it amazing that the LDS church is still pretending that make-believe Hebrew Abraham is sitting atop an Egyptian throne in the image, form, and name of Osiris. The LDS church has no shame for their sacrilegious slander against the ancient Egyptian religion. The LDS church is guilty of slandering an entire race in an effort to supplant perverted lies in a modern day cover-up of international proportions.

Shame on the LDS church! Their leaders and apologists are wretched scum of the earth. Liars, all of them.


True story: When my youngest son was 11 or so, he learned about Egyptian mythology in school. He showed me what he had learned about Anubis, Osiris, and so on, and one of the things he had was a copy of the typical funeral scene depicted in facsimile one. I brought up the Joseph Smith Papyri original (without the Smith insertions) and asked my son what he thought. He said that Anubis' head was missing and that you could only see the wing from the bird representing Osiris. I then showed him the facsimile and asked him what he thought. He said, "That's stupid. Whoever did that didn't know anything."

To this day, my son is fascinated (borderline obsessed) with ancient history and religion. But even at 11, he knew BS when he saw it.
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

Runtu wrote:True story: When my youngest son was 11 or so, he learned about Egyptian mythology in school. He showed me what he had learned about Anubis, Osiris, and so on, and one of the things he had was a copy of the typical funeral scene depicted in facsimile one. I brought up the Joseph Smith Papyri original (without the Smith insertions) and asked my son what he thought. He said that Anubis' head was missing and that you could only see the wing from the bird representing Osiris. I then showed him the facsimile and asked him what he thought. He said, "That's stupid. Whoever did that didn't know anything."

To this day, my son is fascinated (borderline obsessed) with ancient history and religion. But even at 11, he knew BS when he saw it.


I'm confident that professor Hugh Nibley determined the same thing and drew the same conclusions. Nibley knew early on and full well that the Facsimile Explanations tendered by Joseph Smith were not correct Egyptian interpretations or translations. It must have been even more painful when the church recovered the lost papyri in the 1960's. Apologetic Book of Abraham spinning went into high gear, these spins and apologetic approaches were all done for the sole purpose to defend the church and maintain testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet and translator.

Nibley was paid by the church to carry on a life of lying. He knew he was lying. He knew his apologetics was full of holes and that overwhelming evidence proved Joseph Smith faked his translations. He knew it all along but lied to keep his job. Nibley loved his job at BYU and his worldly status more than he loved the truth. He lived a lie and died a liar. He sold his soul to the church.

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

Shulem wrote:I'm confident that professor Hugh Nibley determined the same thing and drew the same conclusions. Nibley knew early on and full well that the Facsimile Explanations tendered by Joseph Smith were not correct Egyptian interpretations or translations. It must have been even more painful when the church recovered the lost papyri in the 1960's. Apologetic Book of Abraham spinning went into high gear, these spins and apologetic approaches were all done for the sole purpose to defend the church and maintain testimony that Joseph Smith was a prophet and translator.

Nibley was paid by the church to carry on a life of lying. He knew he was lying. He knew his apologetics was full of holes and that overwhelming evidence proved Joseph Smith faked his translations. He knew it all along but lied to keep his job. Nibley loved his job at BYU and his worldly status more than he loved the truth. He lived a lie and died a liar. He sold his soul to the church.


I'm not going to make any moral judgments about Hugh Nibley, but I've said before that it was when I realized I had sold my conscience and really my soul for the church that the shelf broke, and I knew I had to leave.
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by RockSlider »

Shulem wrote:Nibley was paid by the church to carry on a life of lying. He knew he was lying. He knew his apologetics was full of holes and that overwhelming evidence proved Joseph Smith faked his translations. He knew it all along but lied to keep his job. Nibley loved his job at BYU and his worldly status more than he loved the truth. He lived a lie and died a liar. He sold his soul to the church.


Runtu wrote:I'm not going to make any moral judgments about Hugh Nibley, but I've said before that it was when I realized I had sold my conscience and really my soul for the church that the shelf broke, and I knew I had to leave.


The Grand Illusion

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

RockSlider wrote:The Grand Illusion


Wow, I haven't heard Styx in at least 20 years. My sister had that album and listened to it a lot.
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Lemmie »

Runtu wrote:
Shulem wrote:Jesus H Christ! I Can't believe I did that. I'll have to fix it later --I don't remember the password to log on. lol

I find it amazing that the LDS church is still pretending that make-believe Hebrew Abraham is sitting atop an Egyptian throne in the image, form, and name of Osiris. The LDS church has no shame for their sacrilegious slander against the ancient Egyptian religion. The LDS church is guilty of slandering an entire race in an effort to supplant perverted lies in a modern day cover-up of international proportions.

Shame on the LDS church! Their leaders and apologists are wretched scum of the earth. Liars, all of them.


True story: When my youngest son was 11 or so, he learned about Egyptian mythology in school. He showed me what he had learned about Anubis, Osiris, and so on, and one of the things he had was a copy of the typical funeral scene depicted in facsimile one. I brought up the Joseph Smith Papyri original (without the Smith insertions) and asked my son what he thought. He said that Anubis' head was missing and that you could only see the wing from the bird representing Osiris. I then showed him the facsimile and asked him what he thought. He said, "That's stupid. Whoever did that didn't know anything."

To this day, my son is fascinated (borderline obsessed) with ancient history and religion. But even at 11, he knew BS when he saw it.

:lol: that's awesome. Give them the tools, and they learn for themselves, right?

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

Lemmie wrote: :lol: that's awesome. Give them the tools, and they learn for themselves, right?


At the time, I didn't tell him who the stupid person was. But I remember thinking that it was so obvious an 11 year old could see it.
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by RockSlider »

Runtu wrote:
RockSlider wrote:The Grand Illusion


Wow, I haven't heard Styx in at least 20 years. My sister had that album and listened to it a lot.


For some reason, I got a vision of Hugh standing center stage as the ringmaster .. and his words ringing loud and clear 'Welcome to the Grand Illusion, pay the price, get your tickets for the show"


And when one's shelf starts to crumble: Man in the Wilderness
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Runtu »

RockSlider wrote:For some reason, I got a vision of Hugh standing center stage as the ringmaster .. and his words ringing loud and clear 'Welcome to the Grand Illusion, pay the price, get your tickets for the show"


Yes, the more I have read of Nibley, the less impressed I have become. That said, he may have been completely convinced he was in the right. That's what I mean about not making moral judgments.
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

Runtu wrote:Yes, the more I have read of Nibley, the less impressed I have become. That said, he may have been completely convinced he was in the right. That's what I mean about not making moral judgments.


THE THREE FACSIMILES FROM THE BOOK OF ABRAHAM Hugh W. Nibley (1980)

Hugh Nibley wrote:1) is Joseph Smith's Explanation of the thing at all plausible--could such a thing have happened? The answer is emphatically "Yes".

2) Is there any reason for thinking that such a thing could have happened to Abraham? There is.

Perhaps the neatest bull's eye that the Prophet Joseph makes in the Explanations, is in designating Figure 5 in Facsimile No. 3 as "Shulem, one of King's principal waiters."

etc


Hugh Nibley was a liar. He knew better. He knew what the experts said. He twisted, distorted, and led people astray in his evil web of deception.

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Philo Sofee »

Yes, the more I have read of Nibley, the less impressed I have become. That said, he may have been completely convinced he was in the right.

I have had the same reaction as well. I remember Bill Hamblin telling me he tried to re-read all of Nibley's writings each year so as to keep them fresh in his mind. Ayiyi! Well, and then I was as guilty, as at one time I re-read everything the man wrote and was published (and not published) every year myself. (I remember reading "An Approach to the Book of Mormon" in one day!) Yeah, actually studying how science works and reading the scientists and evolutionists, and atheists demonstrated to me so many flaws in Nibley's logic. I was curious as to what caused the flaws? I discovered it a few years ago and wrote it on my blog. Nibley was a literalist. He was more fundamental literalist than Joseph Fielding Smith, and that's saying something!
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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote: Nibley was a literalist. He was more fundamental literalist than Joseph Fielding Smith, and that's saying something!

Poor Nibley got stuck with the job of having to defend the Book of Abraham after the long lost missing papyrus fragments were discovered and returned to the church. How shocking it must have been to have to look at those fragments and put 2 + 2 together and come up with 3. It must have been highly disappointing for Nibley and his comrades. What did Joseph Fielding Smith ever have to say about the fragments and how they might shine light on Joseph Smith's Egyptian translations? I don't recall the old croak ever saying boo -- not diddly-squat! Joseph Fielding Smith with his loud mouthed opinions never said a word not even as President of the church! The man was a total coward and hid under a rock.

I wonder what Joseph Fielding Smith would have to say about my discovery of the chopped off jackal snout on the lead printing plate? We have yet to see what LDS apologists have to say about this. As far as I know, nothing has been said. But that's par for the course when it comes to the Book of Abraham, just put it on the back burner and keep the faith. That's Mormonism for you. But I predict the jackal snout is going to bite the apologists on the ass. Ouch! There is no escaping that bite! I'll make sure of that. lol

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by spotlight »

Shulem wrote:I wonder what Joseph Fielding Smith would have to say about my discovery of the chopped off jackal snout on the lead printing plate? We have yet to see what LDS apologists have to say about this. As far as I know, nothing has been said. But that's par for the course when it comes to the Book of Abraham, just put it on the back burner and keep the faith.


Now it's put it in a black box. Lol. Black, because it is a source of evil doubts probably and it surely is a cursed box. Something the box no doubt did in the pre-existence merited its present color and duty in life. When aircraft crash we look for the black box to learn why. This is an apt metaphor! When the world of Mormonism comes crashing down about the TBM he can look in the black box to see why this accident occurred. It became so loaded with facts that it became impossible to heft. The aircraft could no longer bear its weight and plummeted to the earth!

That jackal snout exists because there must be opposition in ALL things whether great or small. God had it placed there to test you boy and you fell for it! Lol.

I was contacted by a girl I knew as a teenager. She wants me back in the church. I explained that I left over conflicts with science. She assured me that she believes in science and was getting a degree in anthropology then she went on to state her hypothesis that TBMs have a particular blood type. That's right one of the blood types is superior to the rest! (Some blood cells were more obedient in their pre-existence no doubt). All this ties back into that great revelation that came from Joseph Fielding Smith about this fluid that courses through our veins.

I'm 907 years old but I don't feel a day over 800. What's my secret? I continue to sin and God keeps lengthening my probation so that I might repent. Well seriously, that's not true (twoo for TBMs). Rather than obtaining the 2nd anointing (too much work) and being rewarded with as long a life as I'd like, I did meditate upon the teachings of Joseph Fielding Smith - that the immortality of the body is due to spirit flowing through the veins instead of blood. Why of course! It's so obvious! Cut off that pesky Oxygen to the brain and it will live forever! Duh!

Anyhow I share my secret with you all. The spirit transfusion:

Image

Live long and prosper.
Kolob’s set time is “one thousand years according to the time appointed unto that whereon thou standest” (Abraham 3:4). I take this as a round number. - Gee

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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by Shulem »

THANK YOU mentalgymnast for finally voicing your opinion in the other thread.

:smile:

mentalgymnast wrote:I went through and read the thread you linked to. I hadn't been through and paid much attention to this thread. I think there was another BofA related thread during that time that I did participate in but I didn't spend time with this one. Looking through it, I see that Don Bradley has a rather high opinion of your views/conclusions in regards to the missing snout. Also, as I read the comments of others I have no reason to question the 8-10 range of responses. Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I come and go here...and I may have been in the process of going at the time.


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Re: BOOK OF ABRAHAM FACSIMILE NO. 3​​ WEBSITE

Post by moksha »

I think Dr. Gee may have written a response to this thread.

http://www.conflictofjustice.com/
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