Salvation among the decieved

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rureal.2
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Salvation among the decieved

Post by rureal.2 »

Can a Mormon have true salvation? Does anyone think a person can remain in the LDS church and deny Joseph Smith as a true prophet.

Polygamy Porter
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Post by Polygamy Porter »

Many do remain in the cult of Joe, not for fear of some magical salvation, but fear their wife will ruin them financially.

In the house called Mormon, you MUST first see the doorman before you see Jesus. Who is the doorman? Joe Smith.

Look at the discussions from Brigham's bible bashing bicycle brigade. What do they require before becoming a member?

Belief in Christ? Nope!

They require you to get goosebumps about Joe being a divine translator of the Book of Mormon, and thereby proves he was a divine prophet of GOD.

See, once they get that mental commitment, then they can get them to believe most of what Joe taught. Besides, Jesus really did not have too much to say.

So, no one cannot be a Mormon if they do not believe in the divinity of one Joeseph Smith.

rureal.2
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Salvation

Post by rureal.2 »

Do LDS accept Jesus as a personal Savior and after this real experience fall away when they begin to believe in the false prophet and become decieved?

harmony
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Re: Salvation

Post by harmony »

rureal.2 wrote:Do LDS accept Jesus as a personal Savior and after this real experience fall away when they begin to believe in the false prophet and become decieved?


Some of us have managed to retain a belief in Christ while maintaining our membership in the LDS church. It takes some doing and a whole lotta cyncism, but it's possible.

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Gazelam
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2 Nephi chp.31

Post by Gazelam »

16 And now, my beloved brethren, I know by this that unless a man shall endure to the end, in following the example of the Son of the living God, he cannot be saved.
17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.
19 And now, my beloved brethren, after ye have gotten into this strait and narrow path, I would ask if all is done? Behold, I say unto you, Nay; for ye have not come thus far save it were by the word of Christ with unshaken faith in him, relying wholly upon the merits of him who is mighty to save.
20 Wherefore, ye must press forward with a steadfastness in Christ, having a perfect brightness of hope, and a love of God and of all men. Wherefore, if ye shall press forward, feasting upon the word of Christ, and endure to the end, behold, thus saith the Father: Ye shall have eternal life.
21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.

This is the Mormon belief in Christ. And while the rest of Christianity celebrates the works he did in the past, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declares a living Christ, and prophets and Apostles who bear witness to him.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato

harmony
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Re: 2 Nephi chp.31

Post by harmony »

This is the Mormon belief in Christ. And while the rest of Christianity celebrates the works he did in the past, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declares a living Christ, and prophets and Apostles who bear witness to him.


And yet how can they bear witness of him whom they have never seen and never heard? The prophet himself said he's never seen Christ in the flesh, and never heard his voice, that he receives revelation the same way everyone else does: through the still, small voice. How can one bear witness, if one did not witness?

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Gazelam
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Post by Gazelam »

The Holy Ghost is as much Christ, as the Son of God is The Father. What other religion has the understanding of the Holy Ghost that the Mormon church has? None. To stand in the presence of the Holy Ghost is the same as being in the presence of Christ, they are One God.

Also, there are a great many Prophets and Apostles who have witnessed Christ. A sacred event such as this is not hurriedly declared to the Church, but the Doctrines that enabled those men to be able to bear the physical presence of the Son are readily taught
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato

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OUT OF MY MISERY
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Post by OUT OF MY MISERY »

PP
is right who wants to have the other ruin them???
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........

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Rank&File
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Re: 2 Nephi chp.31

Post by Rank&File »

Gazelam wrote:
This is the Mormon belief in Christ. And while the rest of Christianity celebrates the works he did in the past, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints declares a living Christ, and prophets and Apostles who bear witness to him.


So are you saying that Mormons don't celebrate the work he has done in the past?

As a Christian I Celebrate the work he has done in the past, and I Celebrate the work he is doing in my life now.

Have you noticed that most Christian Churches have an empty cross? This is because he lives. You are seriously mistaken if you say we do not declare a living Christ.

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Rank&File
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Post by Rank&File »

Gazelam wrote:The Holy Ghost is as much Christ, as the Son of God is The Father. What other religion has the understanding of the Holy Ghost that the Mormon church has? None. To stand in the presence of the Holy Ghost is the same as being in the presence of Christ, they are One God.


I don't understand what you mean by this, because most other churches do believe that the Holy Ghost, Christ, and the Father believe they are one God. I don't understand by your "What other religion has the understanding of the Holy Ghost that the Mormon church has? None" - Because what you just said is understood by other Christian Churches.

harmony
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Post by harmony »

Rank&File wrote:
Gazelam wrote:The Holy Ghost is as much Christ, as the Son of God is The Father. What other religion has the understanding of the Holy Ghost that the Mormon church has? None. To stand in the presence of the Holy Ghost is the same as being in the presence of Christ, they are One God.


I don't understand what you mean by this, because most other churches do believe that the Holy Ghost, Christ, and the Father believe they are one God. I don't understand by your "What other religion has the understanding of the Holy Ghost that the Mormon church has? None" - Because what you just said is understood by other Christian Churches.


Unless Mormons claim some exclusive greater understanding, we have no exclusive claim to truth. It's very difficult for Mormons who have never been outside the church to see the exclusive claim as less-than-stellar.

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Jason Bourne
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Re: Salvation among the decieved

Post by Jason Bourne »

rureal.2 wrote:Can a Mormon have true salvation? Does anyone think a person can remain in the LDS church and deny Joseph Smith as a true prophet.


Yes and yes though I imagine one would not be too vocal about the latter.

Jason

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Jason Bourne
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Post by Jason Bourne »

Polygamy Porter wrote:Many do remain in the cult of Joe, not for fear of some magical salvation, but fear their wife will ruin them financially.

In the house called Mormon, you MUST first see the doorman before you see Jesus. Who is the doorman? Joe Smith.

Look at the discussions from Brigham's bible bashing bicycle brigade. What do they require before becoming a member?

Belief in Christ? Nope!

They require you to get goosebumps about Joe being a divine translator of the Book of Mormon, and thereby proves he was a divine prophet of GOD.

See, once they get that mental commitment, then they can get them to believe most of what Joe taught. Besides, Jesus really did not have too much to say.

So, no one cannot be a Mormon if they do not believe in the divinity of one Joeseph Smith.



The presumption is one already believes in Jesus. If not that comes first. So your post is full of crap, like most of the posts I have seen fom you here are.

Jason

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Jason Bourne
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Post by Jason Bourne »

harmony wrote:
rureal.2 wrote:Do LDS accept Jesus as a personal Savior and after this real experience fall away when they begin to believe in the false prophet and become decieved?


Some of us have managed to retain a belief in Christ while maintaining our membership in the LDS church. It takes some doing and a whole lotta cyncism, but it's possible.



Another full of crap post. All believing LDS maintain belief in Jesus. If one does not they are not true LDS.

Jason

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Southern Redneck
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Post by Southern Redneck »

Jason Bourne wrote:
harmony wrote:
rureal.2 wrote:Do LDS accept Jesus as a personal Savior and after this real experience fall away when they begin to believe in the false prophet and become decieved?


Some of us have managed to retain a belief in Christ while maintaining our membership in the LDS church. It takes some doing and a whole lotta cyncism, but it's possible.



Another full of crap post. All believing LDS maintain belief in Jesus. If one does not they are not true LDS.

Jason
I would not be so fast as to call "crap" on what they said. The church always putting itself bwtween the people and the Lord is a main reason many leave. The LDS system demands loyalty to the church in place of the lord. You will not agree, but it is true.

To get to the Lord, you must pay tithing to the church. To get to the Lord, you must follow all the words of the brethren in Salt Lake City. To get to the Lord you must etc etc etc.

It is hard to believe in the Lord, when the church demands that you only do it through them. Getting over that hurdle was my first step to freedom from the morg.

Many lose faith in the Lord before faith in the church.

so calling "crap" on this pretty much is a TBM knee jerk(heavy on the jerk) reaction by you.

Take a moment to read and think and before you judge so blindly.

It's liberating.

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Jason Bourne
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Post by Jason Bourne »

I would not be so fast as to call "crap" on what they said.


I would be.



The church always putting itself bwtween the people and the Lord is a main reason many leave. The LDS system demands loyalty to the church in place of the lord. You will not agree, but it is true.


I do not agree but I see how one might get to see it that way. Of course, for LDS the Church and the Lord are the same. You know the verse-whether by my own voice or by the voice of my servents, it is the same. The idea is it is Jesus's Church and his earhtly represetatives stnad in his place. Never the less, any believing LDS still places Jesus first.


To get to the Lord, you must pay tithing to the church. To get to the Lord, you must follow all the words of the brethren in Salt Lake City. To get to the Lord you must etc etc etc.


One can pray to the Lord but yea there are lots of strings there. But just how does this end up in LDS not really believing in Jesus?


It is hard to believe in the Lord, when the church demands that you only do it through them. Getting over that hurdle was my first step to freedom from the morg.



No it is not. Not really.

Many lose faith in the Lord before faith in the church.


They do?

so calling "crap" on this pretty much is a TBM knee jerk(heavy on the jerk) reaction by you.



Did you just call me a jerk? How kind.

Well I am not really TBM but I am rational about my beefs. That seems a unique thing. Most who post here are short on that attribute.


Take a moment to read and think and before you judge so blindly.


So sorry. I still think it is crap.
It's liberating.


Oh I am sure.

Jason

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