Ex-Mo's stages of your adjustment to disbelief

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Ex-Mo's stages of your adjustment to disbelief

Post by Jersey Girl »

Hi People,

As I implied in an earlier post I find myself with extra time right now to post. I wonder if you ex-Mo's on this board would mind listing the stages of the development of your disbelief in the LDS Church and/or Joseph Smith as Prophet. How did this take place for you? How would you describe the stages?

I'm thinking in terms of stages as those described in the grief or other processess. The first step is denial...how did this go for you?

Jersey Girl

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by MormonMendacity »

Denial would be first if the assumption is that you are aware of the facts or circumstances surrounding the problem but deny it exists.

I'm not sure that's where it started for me.

1. Things bothered me. Nothing more than that. I concluded that these things must be a result of my own ignorance and that they would be cleared up any day -- or in God's due time.
2. I felt no direction in my life. Even though I prayed, studied, pondered, served, preached and lived the Gospel, I did not feel like I knew if I was on track. I constantly prayed for guidance and that I would endure to the end.
3. I would often pray about something, like the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon, and feel the conviction that I was it was right. Often it would turn out to work out differently than I felt the prayer had confirmed to me and I would be confused.
5. I began to question that personal revelation and began studying how it worked in biblical, Book of Mormonical and other people's lives. I believed what the Book of Mormon taught: God is a God of miracles, and all the scriptures seemed to reinforce that. It was NOT reinforced in my life.
6. I began to realize that I was unhappy with so many things. Our poverty. My role as father of six. My feeling of exhaustion about serving. My feeling of self-loathing for being tempted sexually and not being able to control those feelings.
7. I began to wonder why I was so unhappy if I had the truth.
8. I talked openly about my unhappiness with my wife, bishop, priesthood leaders, home teachers, father.
9. I began to question whether Moroni 10: 4&5 was really a guide to finding "the truth of all things".
10. I began praying harder for guidance in my life and in the Church.
11. I began testing the "truth of all things" about simple things that I wanted to know truth about.
12. There were no "miracles" that were forth-coming.
13. I began to look at the caveats in the promise and realized that it was less of a "promise" and more of a cleverly-written legal document.
14. I began to suspect that no one in the leadership of the Church was, or ever had been, any more spiritual than I was. That an "honest seeker after truth" might be set up by such notions.
15. I started going to FAIR.
16. It was over.

Is that way too much information or was I completely off track on what you were looking for?
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by Jersey Girl »

MormonMendacity,

Thank you, that was exactly the type of description I was hoping to read. How has it gone for you now? Have you officially exited? Have you joined another group of believers? Have you abandoned God belief? Are you still searching? Do you think you will always be skeptical of all types of organized religion?

Jersey Girl

User avatar
Gazelam
Lightbearer
Posts: 5659
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:06 pm

Mormonliar

Post by Gazelam »

I would recommend to you that you prayerfully re-read D&C section 46. Your answer was given to you, but you did not endure. Go back and lay hold of the revelations that you did receive, and work upon them and make them strong.

Gazelam

A part:

7 But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me, cconsidering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men; for some are of men, and others of devils.
8 Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given;
9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato

User avatar
Runtu
God
Posts: 16721
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 11:06 pm

Post by Runtu »

I know you mean well, Gazelam, but really, you don't his heart or what he's been through. These platitudinous scriptures are nice and everything, but they don't help much.

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Re: Mormonliar

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:I would recommend to you that you prayerfully re-read D&C section 46. Your answer was given to you, but you did not endure. Go back and lay hold of the revelations that you did receive, and work upon them and make them strong.

Gazelam

A part:

7 But ye are commanded in all things to ask of God, who giveth liberally; and that which the Spirit testifies unto you even so I would that ye should do in all holiness of heart, walking uprightly before me, cconsidering the end of your salvation, doing all things with prayer and thanksgiving, that ye may not be seduced by evil spirits, or doctrines of devils, or the commandments of men; for some are of men, and others of devils.
8 Wherefore, beware lest ye are deceived; and that ye may not be deceived seek ye earnestly the best gifts, always remembering for what they are given;
9 For verily I say unto you, they are given for the benefit of those who love me and keep all my commandments, and him that seeketh so to do; that all may be benefited that seek or that ask of me, that ask and not for a sign that they may consume it upon their lusts.


Gazelam,

This thread was not for the purpose of witnessing to others. I wanted to hear their stories. If you wish to provide a witness please start a new thread and respect the purpose of this thread.

Jersey Girl

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by MormonMendacity »

Jersey Girl wrote:MormonMendacity,

Thank you, that was exactly the type of description I was hoping to read. How has it gone for you now? Have you officially exited? Have you joined another group of believers? Have you abandoned God belief? Are you still searching? Do you think you will always be skeptical of all types of organized religion?

Jersey Girl

Life is not without challenges and there are still many. Now I allow myself to use good thinking patterns (or at least better ones) to make decisions instead of hoping to have an invisible being help me make it through life.

I did abandon god belief after trying other religions on for size -- primarily Christianity -- and reading a lot about why humans believe in spiritualism. I eventually have come to the belief that none of them have any greater claim to truth or, more especially, happiness than the others. I believe that our minds and thinking patterns are what result in happiness.

I think that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and, though I'm open to review it, I think it would have to be some pretty incredible evidence beyond "the angel made me do it."

I am skepitcal of religions, although I still attend at times. I exercise tremendous respect for people who are religious, especially when they are respectful of nonbelievers -- but if they want to talk about their religions, I feel the tenets are open game.
Last edited by MormonMendacity on Thu Nov 16, 2006 6:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by Jersey Girl »

MormonMendacity,

What is happiness?

Jersey Girl

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by MormonMendacity »

Jersey Girl wrote:MormonMendacity,

What is happiness?

Jersey Girl

Runtu? Jersey Girl has a question for you!
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by Jersey Girl »

MormonMendacity wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:MormonMendacity,

What is happiness?

Jersey Girl

Runtu? Jersey Girl has a question for you!


MormonMendacity,

My question came from these comments of yours: "I eventually have come to the belief that none of them have any greater claim to truth or, more especially, happiness than the others. I believe that our minds and thinking patterns are what result in happiness. "

I'm just wondering how you would describe happiness.

Jersey Girl

User avatar
Gazelam
Lightbearer
Posts: 5659
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:06 pm

Jersey

Post by Gazelam »

sorry, I'll but out.

Gazelam
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Re: Jersey

Post by Jersey Girl »

Gazelam wrote:sorry, I'll but out.

Gazelam


Thank you, Gazelam. I know that you mean well. It's just that this is not how I would have liked the thread to go. Not that I have any real control over it!

Jersey Girl

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Re: Jersey

Post by MormonMendacity »

Gazelam wrote:sorry, I'll but out.

Gazelam

Don't butt out, Gazelam.

I can engender a lot of animosity because of my rudeness when I post. I don't hold it against you for coming back at me. Not to be too disrespectful, I find your posts both interesting and entertaining.

So you haven't offended me and I don't think you are being too mean.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by MormonMendacity »

Jersey Girl wrote:
MormonMendacity wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:MormonMendacity,

What is happiness?

Jersey Girl

Runtu? Jersey Girl has a question for you!


MormonMendacity,

My question came from these comments of yours: "I eventually have come to the belief that none of them have any greater claim to truth or, more especially, happiness than the others. I believe that our minds and thinking patterns are what result in happiness. "

I'm just wondering how you would describe happiness.

Jersey Girl

I was kinda kidding about the "runtu" comment.

I don't know if I even have the penultimate answer to that, or the ultimate one for that matter, but I am happiest when I am enjoying adventures and relationships. I want to be happy today in those things -- not tomorrow.

Beyond that, I'm not a deep thinker.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by Jersey Girl »

MormonMendacity,

Great. Now I have to go look up the word "penultimate". Thank you for your comments.

Jersey Girl
;-)

User avatar
Jersey Girl
God
Posts: 34411
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:16 pm

Post by Jersey Girl »

penultimate p-e-n-u-l-t-i-m-a-t-e :-)

This just in from dictionary.com:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) - Cite This Source
pe‧nul‧ti‧mate  /pɪˈnʌltəmɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pi-nuhl-tuh-mit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. next to the last: the penultimate scene of the play.
2. of or pertaining to a penult.
–noun 3. a penult.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1670–80; see penult, ultimate]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

So, you couldn't just say "next to last", eh? Show off.

Jersey Girl
;-)

User avatar
MormonMendacity
2nd Counselor
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:56 pm

Post by MormonMendacity »

I know you wanted others to respond so this will be my next to last post.

I read Gould's The Lying Stones of Marrakech once and that's when I had to look up the word. The full title is, "The Lying Stones of Marrakech:Penultimate Reflections in Natural History".

Again, this is my penultimate post...I swear.
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder" --Homer Simpson's version of Pascal's Wager
Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.
Religion is ignorance reduced to a system.

Post Reply