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Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:51 pm
by Southern Redneck
I would say yes. Most people have a wife, kid or kids, or other family members still in. It makes it almost impossible to just walk away. I know that the church will always have an effect on me.

Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:27 pm
by Gazelam
I stand by the Mormon faith because God himself has told me it is his church.

And Nort, I hope the fact that your link is non-functioning means that you prayed and received an answer as to how wrong you are and you are now in a state of repentance. I would appreciate an invitation to your re-baptism.

All the best
Gazelam

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:39 pm
by harmony
Gazelam wrote:I stand by the Mormon faith because God himself has told me it is his church.

And Nort, I hope the fact that your link is non-functioning means that you prayed and received an answer as to how wrong you are and you are now in a state of repentance. I would appreciate an invitation to your re-baptism.

All the best
Gazelam


Don't hold your breath.

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:02 pm
by Nortinski
Gazelam wrote:I stand by the Mormon faith because God himself has told me it is his church.

And Nort, I hope the fact that your link is non-functioning means that you prayed and received an answer as to how wrong you are and you are now in a state of repentance. I would appreciate an invitation to your re-baptism.

All the best
Gazelam


Gazelam,

that's funny. God has told me that the "Mormon faith" is a bag full of s***. Well, not in those exact words, but close to it. And, the link was non-functioning because it had a comma after it. Try www.josephlied.com and discover the truth. I would appreciate an invitation to your "court of love" (formerly known as a "church court") when you tell your Bishop that you're leaving the cult and you've sent a letter out to dozens of friends and family members telling them why. They threatened to excommunicate me AFTER I told them I wanted out just because of the contents of the following letter that I sent to 40 friends and family members: http://www.josephlied.com/exit.html

By the way, I asked my Bishop and Stake President if there was anything in the letter that wasn't true. They admitted there was not.

Good luck. Hope you read it with an open heart and mind.

Nort

Joseph lied

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:40 pm
by Gazelam
Nort,

I looked through your website, and I have seen nothing there al that new or innovative as far as tachings against the church are concerned. Many of these I have gone through with aggresive Born again christians who hammer away at me with these things. I find it hard to believe that after all your studies you are so uninformed as to how revelation is received, and how people spiritualy grow into Christ and his gospel. The same way people grow up into God, is how the church grew up.

I will take the time to go through a number of your problems you are having with church doctrine. In the meantime I would encourage you to pray to your Father in heaven in the name of Christ, and ask for the companionship of the Holy Ghost. I would also encourage you to read the scriptures (The Bible is of coarce fine), and also go through your home and remove anything in it that would be offensive to the spirit, this list should include movies that woudl be innappropriate to have in your Home if Christ himself were to pay you a visit, as well as any music that woudl be offensive. I don't think anything I have asked of you here is a strictly "Mormon" way of obtaining the spirit. Any other proper christian church would ask you the same things if you were striving to draw closer to God in a serious manner.

I'll start with the first vision accounts, and go down the list from there. I think each one may be worthy of an individual thread.

All the best,

Gazelam

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:09 am
by Rank&File
Gazelam, Why are you here?

You are right Gazelam. There is nothing new about JosephLied.com - These are the same old Anti-Mormon Claims that people have making and some of them are as old as Mormonism itself. But you know what the crazy thing is? They are true.

by the way, don't waste your time trying to argue the points unless it is something new or innovative to other sites out there that have already attempted this. For starters you may want to try just pointing Mike's Lost soul to places like.

http://www.josephtoldthetruth.com/

But if you feel the desire to write the same old standard Mormon apologetics or have something new or innovative, please enlighten us.

And I have to ask you another question Gazelam. What are your motives for trying to "love bomb" mike with all your "You need to do this, and this, and this" to feel the spirit stuff. Do you really care about him or are you just trying to stir the pot here on the message board. If you are doing it out of love, you really need to go back to the MTC and the mission field and work on your skills.

I have to agree that Mike gets pretty angry at times but is there anything wrong with that? Christ himself walked into the temple and started flipping tables over because he was pissed as hell. I am still awaiting the video of mike walking into the temple, grabbing the cash register and start beating it with a crowbar. :) We don't see what Mike is like 24hrs a day and I am sure that he posts a lot of his frustration on this message board so we get a distorted view of what he really is like.

I went through my Angry stage and have pretty much moved on now except for times when my family members say stupid things to me. It has been said by others on this board "The Truth Will Set You Free, but at first it will piss you off". This is so true.

Gazelam, you may want to check out http://www.mormonstories.org/ and listen to the "Stages of Faith" podcasts. I really don't know your background but if I had to guess I would say you are in stage 3. Right now I am in stage 4 going into stage 5.

As far as myself, I have moved on from Mormonism and I would like to thank God for showing me the way. If you would like to read my story, you can at http://tinyurl.com/wszjv

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:16 am
by Jersey Girl
Mike: They threatened to excommunicate me AFTER I told them I wanted out just because of the contents of the following letter that I sent to 40 friends and family members:

Jersey Girl: Can I ask what may seem like a stupid question? Would ex-communicating you have looked better on church records than your resignation? I'm just trying to understand what you're saying here.

Re: Joseph lied

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:35 pm
by Nortinski
Gazelam wrote:In the meantime I would encourage you to pray to your Father in heaven in the name of Christ, and ask for the companionship of the Holy Ghost. I would also encourage you to read the scriptures (The Bible is of coarce fine)


Gazelam,

you need to read my website again. Clearly you missed the part where I mentioned pouring my heart out to God and reading nothing but Church approved material upwards of 16 hours a day. God answered my prayers. I still believe in him to this very day. Does it upset you that God told me that your church is a cult? Cuz it sure broke my heart at the time. I've since gotten over the heartache.

Although my posts sometimes make me come across as an angry sonofabitch sometimes, rest assured, I'm not. Ask Dr. Shades. He knows me. We've met in person more than once. I'm don't come across as "angry" in person.

However, you should be warned, stupidity does frustrate me sometimes. ;-)

Nort

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:37 pm
by Ray A
Nortinski wrote:

that's funny. God has told me that the "Mormon faith" is a bag full of s***. Well, not in those exact words, but close to it. And, the link was non-functioning because it had a comma after it. Try www.josephlied.com and discover the truth.
Good luck. Hope you read it with an open heart and mind.

Nort


Nort,

I read your story twice, once a long time ago when I was first on MormonDiscussions.com, and just a few minutes ago. I believe you were honest in your investigations, and I can understand why you drew the conclusions you did. It seems that your faith in God and Christ is still intact, but what I'd like to know is why you come across as being so angry? You really have some harsh words to say about the church. Is this because of the way you have been treated by Mormons? Do you hate the church?

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:53 pm
by Jersey Girl
Gazelam: I find it hard to believe that after all your studies you are so uninformed as to how revelation is received, and how people spiritualy grow into Christ and his gospel.

Jersey Girl: Gazelam, what makes you think that Mike is uninformed as to how revelation is received? Was he not subject to the same teaching as you were?

I would like to see you go about refuting portions of Mike's website. When you do that please separate each section into a separate thread. Thanks.

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:01 pm
by Nortinski
Ray A wrote:
Nortinski wrote:

that's funny. God has told me that the "Mormon faith" is a bag full of s***. Well, not in those exact words, but close to it. And, the link was non-functioning because it had a comma after it. Try www.josephlied.com and discover the truth.
Good luck. Hope you read it with an open heart and mind.

Nort


Nort,

I read your story twice, once a long time ago when I was first on MormonDiscussions.com, and just a few minutes ago. I believe you were honest in your investigations, and I can understand why you drew the conclusions you did. It seems that your faith in God and Christ is still intact, but what I'd like to know is why you come across as being so angry? You really have some harsh words to say about the church. Is this because of the way you have been treated by Mormons? Do you hate the church?



I'm curious, do I come across as "angry" on the podcast I've done in the past at www.thechurchisnottrue.com or is it just when I post online? I mean, I'm pretty sure that 99% of my www.josephlied.com website doesn't come across as "angry". Then again, I wrote that site several years ago and haven't touched it since.

I do indeed have some harsh words to say about "The Church". I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say I "hate" it but you could safely say that I have a lot of disdain for it. I'll admit that I really enjoyed the personal visit that a couple of guys from Cult Security made to my home last year after my January 18th visit to the Jordan River temple. That was the day they implemented the latest changes to the washing and annointing ceremony. They were expecting me that day, but not as far south as the Jordon River temple. Just for fun, the temple recommend I used that day had my own name on it. It was "signed" by Bishop Mark Hofmann. My Stake President was Jesus H. Christ. I was tempting fate that day but she was sound asleep.

I'm not treated "poorly" by Mormons in general. My next door neighbor is LDS and he knows all about me and I think he's a great guy. One of my best friends is LDS. One of my favorite co-workers is LDS. However, I do know a few Mormons that couldn't be bigger assholes if they tried. I don't discuss the cult with them. Mostly because I hope they never leave. The cult deserves all the assholes it can get and, frankly, assholes deserve the cult. If I noticed that an asshole's show was untied or that they had just shut the bottom of their skirt in their car door I wouldn't bother to point it out to them. Frankly, I've got two specific Mormons in mind when I say this. They will rot in the lowest depths of hell. If I could punch them in the face and not be arrested, I'd do so with a smile on my face and do it repeatedly. I suspect that "hate" would be a good choice of a word for the feelings I have for those two Mormons. But that's just two Mormons out of the many that I've met. Then again, I've never met Gordon B. Hinckley. I don't think I'd want to punch that old man in the face but if I saw him fall down and break his hip, I don't think I'd bother to call 911. He's a worthless, lying S.O.B. and I suspect, if there is a hell, he'll go there.

Nort

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 7:40 pm
by Ray A
Nortinski wrote:I'm not treated "poorly" by Mormons in general. My next door neighbor is LDS and he knows all about me and I think he's a great guy. One of my best friends is LDS. One of my favorite co-workers is LDS. However, I do know a few Mormons that couldn't be bigger assholes if they tried. I don't discuss the cult with them. Mostly because I hope they never leave. The cult deserves all the assholes it can get and, frankly, assholes deserve the cult. If I noticed that an asshole's show was untied or that they had just shut the bottom of their skirt in their car door I wouldn't bother to point it out to them. Frankly, I've got two specific Mormons in mind when I say this. They will rot in the lowest depths of hell. If I could punch them in the face and not be arrested, I'd do so with a smile on my face and do it repeatedly. I suspect that "hate" would be a good choice of a word for the feelings I have for those two Mormons. But that's just two Mormons out of the many that I've met. Then again, I've never met Gordon B. Hinckley. I don't think I'd want to punch that old man in the face but if I saw him fall down and break his hip, I don't think I'd bother to call 911. He's a worthless, lying S.O.B. and I suspect, if there is a hell, he'll go there.

Nort


You definitely come across a lot better and more convincing on your site. I see your penchant for mischief goes back to your mission days:

I would even occasionally acquire the home telephone number of some of the more famous (or perhaps infamous is the more appropriate word) anti-Mormons and screw with their heads by telling them that I had seriously investigated Mormonism and had come to the conclusion that it was true and that I was going to join it. One of them eventually caught on to my little charade and called my Mission President and ratted me out. I received a stern word of warning from the President and was told that I should avoid all anti-Mormons like the plague. I took his advice seriously and didn't go near anything even resembling anti-Mormon material for at least 13 years.


What I see too is that your hatred is for some individual Mormons you think are "assholes", but you have some good Mormon friends as well. You'd be a lot more effective if you wrote the way you explained your loss of faith on your site, but obviously it seems like you are still venting, at least when you come here. I guess four years out of the church is not a very long time. Your brother Tom gave what appeared to me to be a very reasoned and controlled response, and I think his example is worth following. But you know him better than I do, so maybe he does have outbursts too, but he expressed several times that he didn't feel bitter about anything, which I think is admirable.

Re: Is Mormonism still relevant in FORMER members lives'?

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:04 pm
by Jason Bourne
Nortinski wrote:The more time that passes since I've escaped the cult the less I care about said cult. I get e-mails from people asking me when I'm going to update my website and/or when am I going to do another podcast. Once in a while I am brutally honest with them and just reply with, "When I start to give a damn again." It's true, I just don't care anymore.

*sigh*

I want to care, really I do. I've helped 124 people (that I know of for sure) discover the truth about the cult. There could very well be hundreds more. But, I find myself thinking about Mormonism and wanting to update my website less and less. Does this mean that I've officially "recovered"? Just a year ago I was still upset about being bannished from RfM for life for the "crime" of being "an activist". Now, truth be told, I don't even remember the last time that I even looked at RfM, let alone posted there anonymously. I'm a bit embarassed to say that I can't even recall their URL off the top of my head. Does it end with .org or .com? I dunno. Hell, I didn't even attend the Exmo Conference this year (with the exception of a brief visit to the hospitality suite to meet some friends before going to a party). There was just a serious lack of desire on my part. Ironically I was told that a guy got up during the testimonkey meeting and mentioned me by name and my wesite as being instrumental in his escape from the cult. I later met him and his wife and it seems we had a mission companion in common that thought I was a pretty damn good Mormon apologist. I'm told my former companion went on and on about my knowledge of anti-Mormon stuff. Needless to say, when the guy later discovered (through the Mission Home Page of all places) that I had left the cult he was shocked and read my website to find out how/why. He left soon afterwards.

The cryin' shame with my almost total disinterest in all things Mormon is the fact that I am really good at very few things. Educating people about Mormonism is one of those few things. But, I just can't muster the desire to debate with total strangers through countless e-mails about the how's and why's that prove that Joey Smith was a lying bastard. Is there a cure for this "problem"? Would I take the "cure" if there was? I'm not so sure I would.

Then again, I recall fondly the look in another persons eyes when the fact that they are in a cult finally clicks. I remember how it felt when it "clicked" in my own head. I love that I have helped so many people remove the blinders and see the truth. But, it all still comes back to the fact that I just have no desire to deal with Mormonism anymore.

However, I'm happy to report, there is one teensy little exception to my almost total lack of interest in Mormonism. I still have an huge desire to get the temple endowment, filmed inside an actual temple with a hidden camera, posted online. On the slim chance the dolts in Cult Security see this post, I just want to make one thing clear: It will happen. There's not a ____ thing you can do about it. When (not if) it happens, I firmly believe that it will prevent thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people over the next decade or two from joining your ____ little cult. When some poor schmuck in Ohio tells his Aunt Delores that he's having the Mormon missionaries over for their "discussions" she's going to e-mail him a link to the STILL creepy temple endowment filmed with a hidden camera inside an actual functioning Mormon temple. How many potential converts will tell the missionaries, "Thanks but no thanks" when they see that creepy s*** online?

When you see the temple endowment on youtube (and a few hundred other websites around the world) you can call it Mike Norton's reverse tithing. I just want to help ten percent of your members see the truth and escape.

Nort


If you do not care why are you posting here?

Jason

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:44 pm
by msnobody
Cuz it sure broke my heart at the time.

Gazelam, I hope you will understand that Mike tells the truth here. It shatters your entire world. Just think of the stages of grief, except maybe worse at times.

Re: Receiving a witness from God

Posted: Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:45 pm
by Southern Redneck
Nortinski wrote:I'm curious, do I come across as "angry" on the podcast I've done in the past at www.thechurchisnottrue.com or is it just when I post online?


No. The problem is that members NEED you to be angry so they can justify their dismissing of your viewpoint and knowledge. Anger is their "Get out of truth" card.

Re: Joseph lied

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:43 am
by Dr. Shades
Nortinski wrote:Although my posts sometimes make me come across as an angry sonofabitch sometimes, rest assured, I'm not. Ask Dr. Shades. He knows me. We've met in person more than once. I'm don't come across as "angry" in person.


This is true. As I've said before, if you ever met Mike in person, you'd think he was "a real righteous dude."

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:04 am
by OUT OF MY MISERY
I myself would like to meet Nort.

I am in MD.

I think from Nort's posts he is a highly intelligent and well spoken .

Some of us have just gotten past our anger because we have been out of the cult longer.

Let Nort vent, it is good for the soul to vent.

If he wasn't making any sense in his venting that would be a different story.

Venting and anger can be two totally different things.

Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:42 pm
by Gazelam
I took a brief peek at the "Joseph told the truth" website.

What problems do you have with the answers given there ?

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 11:52 am
by Quantumwave
Gazelam wrote:I took a brief peek at the "Joseph told the truth" website.

What problems do you have with the answers given there ?


ALL of the answers given there are the SAME OLD, SAME OLD, SAME OLD, SAME OLD, LAME, LAME, LAME apologetics.

Pick one of the answers you like, ANY ONE, and lets discuss it.