Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

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Ray A

Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by Ray A »

I'm not being facetious. But according to McConkie:

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

Nothing is more absolutely universal than the resurrection. Every living thing and being will be resurrected. "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22.)....


Every "living thing", which presumably includes the streptococcus germs in your throat?

Comments?

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asbestosman
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Re: Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by asbestosman »

Ray A wrote:I'm not being facetious. But according to McConkie:

Apostle Bruce R. McConkie:

Nothing is more absolutely universal than the resurrection. Every living thing and being will be resurrected. "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." (1 Cor. 15:22.)....


Every "living thing", which presumably includes the streptococcus germs in your throat?

Comments?


Do viruses count? How about cancer cells?
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Post by Ray A »

The First Presidency (Joseph F. Smith, John R. Winder, Anthon H. Lund):

He made the tadpole and the ape, the lion and the elephant but He did not make them in His own image, nor endow them with Godlike reason and intelligence. Nevertheless, the whole animal creation will be perfected and perpetuated in the Hereafter, each class in its 'distinct order or sphere,' and will enjoy 'eternal felicity.' That fact has been made plain in this dispensation (D&C 77:3). - Church First Presidency Message, Christmas greetings, Dec. 18, 1909


Will tadpoles evolve into frogs in the afterlife? Or do they remain tadpoles for all eternity, in eternal bliss?

Ray A

Re: Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by Ray A »

asbestosman wrote:Do viruses count? How about cancer cells?


All viruses and cancer cells will live in eternal bliss. McConkie says so. So it must be so. After all, he says it. It's all in Mormon Doctrine. So it must be true.

Ray A

Post by Ray A »

For the children: "Will robins go to heaven?"

"I can only tell you what the scriptures say about it," Daddy replied. "Usually, when we talk about the resurrection, we think of people. But the scriptures teach us that man, the earth, and all the life upon it will be resurrected, mentioning especially the beasts, the fowls of the air, and the fishes of the sea. The Savior gave His life so that everything would rise from the dead, even lizards and robins." - "Will Robins Go to Heaven?" - Church Friend, Apr. 1982, p. 39


Okay, here is the source: http://home.teleport.com/~packham/animals.htm (Thanks to Richard Packham and Deconstructor)

All emphases mine.

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gramps
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Post by gramps »

What a funny thread! LOL

Wasn't it David O. McKay who said that he expected to be in the celestial kingdom, along with his favorite horse?

That's cool. I miss some of my favorite dogs that have since passed away.

What about all those fish I caught in the river next to our cabin and proceeded to gut them and eat them for breakfast?

I guess they deserve to be brought back to their former state, albeit celestialized, this time around.

Can we go fishing in heaven? And can we keep them or do we have to throw them back?
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truth dancer
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Post by truth dancer »

Hi Ray...

Actually your OP idea is why the resurrection seems strange to me.

The idea of physical bodies coming back to life doesn't make sense given the fact that our bodies are really made up of material from other living things. With each breath we inhale material from virtually every other living thing who has existed on the earth (If we take a really deep breath), so what is one's physical body? And, at each moment our bodies are sloughing off material so we are constantly changing. Even the cancer that invades a body today will be different cells tomorrow... ya know?

The whole idea of a physical resurrection just doesn't work for me. Oh well...

Also, gramps.... I'm guessing that you won't be with your animals unless you are sealed to them. I mean if you will not be with your human loved ones unless a sealing takes place I highly doubt you will be with your animals. But I'm just guessing.

:-)

~dancer~

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Re: Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by harmony »

My dog was hit in the night. My hubby found him on the road as he went to work this morning. I'm feeling a tad blubbery right now, and opened this website to find "Do cockroaches go to heaven?" Guess what? My answer right now is an unqualified "yes". Cockroaches (and dogs) cannot sin. Thus they are given a free pass.

Or... maybe multiple mortal probations was correct, and we all start out as viruses and then move up the food chain until we're finally resurrected as people.

Or... maybe the law of Karma is right, and we're rewarded in the next life according to our deeds in this one. So if you're a good virus, you get to come back as an amoeba the next time.

*sigh*

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Re: Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by moksha »

Ray A wrote: McConkie says so. So it must be so. After all, he says it. It's all in Mormon Doctrine. So it must be true.


In that case, it is more appropriate to refer to it as the McConkie Doctrine, since the author who makes it up usually gets the credit.
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Who Knows
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Post by Who Knows »

Will they all go to the CK? Or will some go to the lower kingdoms? What criteria could be used to judge which kingdom they go to? Do they have to get baptized? Take out their endowments?

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Post by asbestosman »

Who Knows wrote:Do they have to get baptized? Take out their endowments?

No, they just have to be circumcised.

I wonder how circumcision for the dead would work.
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Post by harmony »

Who Knows wrote:Will they all go to the CK? Or will some go to the lower kingdoms? What criteria could be used to judge which kingdom they go to? Do they have to get baptized? Take out their endowments?


They go where the sinless go.

Ray A

Re: Will cockroaches have Eternal Life?

Post by Ray A »

harmony wrote:My dog was hit in the night. My hubby found him on the road as he went to work this morning.


Sorry to hear about that, harmony.

The reason I started this thread is because of some flippant ideas that came into my head. I must have killed hundreds, maybe thousands of cockroaches, like most people. I squash about three a day, and usually say, "there ya go, ya bastard, one less". I can't help being flippant about this because I find the idea of resurrection a bit far fetched, like Truth Dancer.
I've also done a lot of study on near death experiences and the afterlife, and there seems to be persuasive evidence of the possibility of an afterlife. But no where in those studies have I ever come across the idea of resurrection, reincarnation yes. I must have read hundreds, if not over a thousand NDE accounts, and I haven't seen anything on resurrection. The resurrection of insects therefore makes no sense to me, which is why I was surprised to see a First Presidency Message from 1909 talking about the resurrection of tadpoles (see above). I have read NDE accounts of people seeing their departed dogs.

Anyway, for anyone interested in the concept of reincarnation, here is one link:

http://www.zeitenschrift.net/news/sne-2 ... life.ihtml

It may not necessarily be reincarnation, it could be some kind of consciousness connection. If you have an explanation for it let me know. Here is another excerpt about the case:

Jim Tucker, a child psychiatrist and medical director of the Child and Family Psychiatric Clinic at the University of Virginia, is one of the few researchers to extensively study the phenomenon of children who seem to have memories of past lives.

He says James' case is very much like others he has studied.

"At the University of Virginia, we've studied over 2,500 cases of children who seem to talk about previous lives when they're little," Tucker said. "They start at 2 or 3, and by the time they're 6 or 7 they forget all about it and go on to live the rest of their lives."


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2232830

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Post by truth dancer »

Hey Ray..

OK, here is my best guess at the moment.

First let me say that most of the world does believe in reincarnation. I have read many, many accounts and books and believe there is some sort of phenomenon. In addition as a hypnotherapist I have facilitated past life regressions which have been extremely healing to the experiencer.

Having said that...

I have the idea that past life memories are possibly memory within our DNA.

I have really pondered the idea that with every breath we take into our body material from virtually every life form that has existed on our planet. This material is brought into our form and creates us anew. Could it be that somewhere within this sharing of matter/energy we also can glimpse memory of those who have existed prior to our experience?

We don't really know much about DNA yet... but somehow within our DNA all the hardwiring exists in life, and the ability to create and imagine exists as well. Somehow it seems we must share more than the material we can measure which may be in the form of memory or experience.

Just contemplating with you!!! :-)

~dancer~

Ray A

Post by Ray A »

truth dancer wrote:I have the idea that past life memories are possibly memory within our DNA.


TD, this is something I'm seriously looking at myself. It might be a possible explanation for reincarnation memories, some of which are quite striking. I'm not sure how it will explain NDEs, since people who have been clinically dead have vivid recollections of experiences while recording no brain waves. Although there are strong consistent patterns in almost all NDEs, the accounts are often laden with personal interpretations, and are sometimes inconsistent with one another.

Just by way of interest, what is your view? Do you believe that we continue to have some form of existence after death, or do we cease to exist altogether?

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Post by truth dancer »

Hi Ray...

Well, first I don't believe we can even glimpse what will be next if anything is because our senses have developed for very specific purposes based on our world which is based on the curvature of space time sooooooooo I do not think humankind or anything on our earth has the ability to perceive something beyond our immediate abilities.

I also do not think it is even remotely possible that we have spirits that resemble our advanced primate form. This seems like nonsense to me (but I'm open to being totally wrong about it all). Why would spirits need bodies/a shape in a human form? We got our form basically from fish and it took a very long (four billion years) development for us to exist in this form which again is specific for the needs of this particular moment on our earth.

I think the whole idea of spirit/resurrection/human forms, in the next life was created at a time when little was known about life or the universe.

So... what do I think? Based on the past 13.7 billion years of our history, I think nothing is eliminated but only changes form. Our bodies will turn to dust and be consumed by other creatures who will in turn do the same. Our consciousness will exist as the oneness that we are. To clarify.... what are we? Basically we are nothingness. Take away the very small amount of actual matter that composes us (something like.001%) and we are left with being that emptiness which IMO, is Source/zero point energy field/whatever. That is really what we are in the deepest sense. I think we can't really comprehend what this is but I think our experience here brings a collective fulness to existence.

How is that for my quick answer? LOL!

~dancer~

And.. thanks for checkin' in on my blog! :-)

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heh

Post by beastie »

I just have to say that I kill tics and cockroaches with vicious delight. I hate the beasts. On the other hand, I won't kill a spider unless it looks like a poisonous one.

Just think of all those tics waiting to testify against me at the judgment bar. Sigh. But just wait till I bring up Lyme disease.

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past lives

Post by beastie »

TD, Ray, or others who have read about the issue -

Have any of you studied the phenomenon of children spontaneously speaking foreign languages? I seem to recall that was one of the items that Carl Sagan thought deserved more careful study (in Demon Haunted World, although I may be misremembering).

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Post by asbestosman »

I've heard a little about Glossia amoung both children and adults, but everything I've read indicates that there is not scientific evidence to support it. Those who have listened in on Pentacostal meetings think it unlikely that the words are anything more than gibberish. As for modern foreign languages, I have not heard anything in the way of this being verified.

There are of course stories about speaking in tongues during the Kirtland temple dedication. There are other stories like this too, but I don't have references right now except the obvious one is the Day of Pentecost in one of the first chapters of Acts.
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Ray A

Re: past lives

Post by Ray A »

beastie wrote:TD, Ray, or others who have read about the issue -

Have any of you studied the phenomenon of children spontaneously speaking foreign languages? I seem to recall that was one of the items that Carl Sagan thought deserved more careful study (in Demon Haunted World, although I may be misremembering).


beastie, no, I haven't heard of that, but I'd be interested to find out more and may do some searching. Thanks for the tip.

Ray A

Post by Ray A »

truth dancer wrote:Hi Ray...

Well, first I don't believe we can even glimpse what will be next if anything is because our senses have developed for very specific purposes based on our world which is based on the curvature of space time sooooooooo I do not think humankind or anything on our earth has the ability to perceive something beyond our immediate abilities.


TD, I am with you on this, but my research on the afterlife still continues. I noticed Quantumwave did some posts on this,and referred to Victor Zammit. I've studied Victor's website for about a year now, but even voice mediums don't persuade me that this is ultimate proof. I think it's very impressive, but I still have many questions, and keep an open mind.

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