It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:22 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:22 am 
CTR B
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm
Posts: 148
I have by no means been hanging on to every word Tom Phillips has said about his forthcoming "surprise." But I think I have a good knack for reading between the lines. So I thought I'd put my own speculation down in a public forum just in case I'm right.

I believe Tom has set out to show that the Apostles and possibly a fair number of General Authorities have committed tax fraud. I think when a leader reaches a certain level of stature in the church they are inducted into a good-ol-boy network where they look out for one another. One way this network keeps people "in" is by offering a substantial interest free loan that is completely forgiven at death. The terms of this loan are at the sole discretion of the church and can potentially become immediately payable the minute they become an apostate. This is probably intended to be money to set their minds at ease but it also operates as hush money.

The problem is, this can be construed as salary, for which none of them have rendered unto Caesar what is his. The matter is out of Tom's hands because he's waiting for the IRS to take action. They have what they need, they're just waiting for a moment when Obama needs a convenient distraction OR they aren't acting because they are worried it will look like some sort of political payback against Romney.

It will certainly hurt the church's reputation to have the top 15 lined up as tax cheats but it will hit hardest with the membership who will discover how these men are benefitting from the church slush fund.

Feel free to poke holes in my speculation or to post your own guesses.

_________________
LDS & Evangelical Conversations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:29 am 
CTR B
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm
Posts: 148
Don't forget the IRS is on the hot seat for not acting fairly with conservative groups so this might not be something politically advantageous for them.

_________________
LDS & Evangelical Conversations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:35 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 3:52 am
Posts: 6202
Oh sweet baby Jesus H. Christ, don't make Obama part of this conspiracy theory. That's all we need.

_________________
Hebraic structures in the Book of Mormon are like heart disease risk factors. If the major symptoms of a heart attack aren’t there, you don’t conclude a heart attack is happening just because a patient has a few risk factors. - California Kid


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:10 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 9355
Location: Betwixt & Between
If it is shown that the General Authorities of the Church have been guilty of financial wrong doing then the Church's auditors will be in the dock with them. Which isn't to say I rule out financial impropriety as being the 'surprise'. My view is that this is the area most likely to be where mud could be flung.

_________________
"I have faith in God. I never said I knew how to prove there was a God. Then I said I asked God a question. How do you get anything circular out of that?" Kevin Sim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:33 am 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 13795
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
Nothing about that seems incredible to me, but much depends on the interpretation of the details.

_________________
The Electronic Journal of Jaredite Studies
The Definitive Electronic Jaredite Bibliography

"I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser." ~Brigham Young


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:49 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:58 pm
Posts: 4154
Hey Tim! :smile:

Tim wrote:
I have by no means been hanging on to every word Tom Phillips has said about his forthcoming "surprise." But I think I have a good knack for reading between the lines. So I thought I'd put my own speculation down in a public forum just in case I'm right.

I believe Tom has set out to show that the Apostles and possibly a fair number of General Authorities have committed tax fraud. I think when a leader reaches a certain level of stature in the church they are inducted into a good-ol-boy network where they look out for one another. One way this network keeps people "in" is by offering a substantial interest free loan that is completely forgiven at death. The terms of this loan are at the sole discretion of the church and can potentially become immediately payable the minute they become an apostate. This is probably intended to be money to set their minds at ease but it also operates as hush money.

The problem is, this can be construed as salary, for which none of them have rendered unto Caesar what is his. The matter is out of Tom's hands because he's waiting for the IRS to take action. They have what they need, they're just waiting for a moment when Obama needs a convenient distraction OR they aren't acting because they are worried it will look like some sort of political payback against Romney.

It will certainly hurt the church's reputation to have the top 15 lined up as tax cheats but it will hit hardest with the membership who will discover how these men are benefitting from the church slush fund.


Although it is certainly a possibility that your guess is right, I don't think it is!

Quote:
or to post your own guesses.


My guess is that Tom will be providing some level of proof (or what he feels is proof) that there are many top level LDS leaders (GA's Apostles, etc) that do not believe (and have not believed) what they project to their LDS brethren as prophets, seers and revelators.

For some (many?) this 'surprise' will be received as no surprise at all. As a matter of fact, IMO, it will be exactly what some (many/most?) have expected all along. Ceeboo included!

And for those who live outside of the many layers of Mormonism (99.9% of the remaining human beings who walk this earth) this 'surprise' will be completely and entirely ignored with zero impact and/or meaning.

Peace,
Ceeboo


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:54 am 
Star B
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:27 pm
Posts: 102
TP has nothing. He could easily confide the basics to a trusted third party who would agree to vouch for the legitimacy of the surprise without revealing the contents. He won't. Why? He won't say.

Instead we get these oblique lamentations about needing money and inconsistent statements about it being in the hands of authorities and his needing more time.

What incentive do the church hierarchy have to commit tax fraud? Is money scarce at the COB? Demonstrably not. Is their rapacity such that they cannot help themselves? They certainly have no trouble economizing with the truth about matters, but are they risk takers? Not by my observation.

If it's a tax scandal, it is inconsistent w/ TP's statements. I've seen tax investigations. You don't need money and months of work to synthesize the data. You turn over the data and people get interviewed.

TP's revelation is Dingleberry Surprise.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:31 am 
1st Counselor

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Posts: 458
If so, church wouldn't pass audits. Keep guessing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 9:34 am 
1st Counselor

Joined: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:17 pm
Posts: 458
Like I've said before, the exmo crowd needs an accountant to help them vet all the outlandish financial disclosure theories.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:09 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:19 pm
Posts: 2322
Location: Multiverse
Looks like lots of chatter to me. I'm waiting for Quinn's next book for substance rather than taking seriously the speculation around this individual.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:04 pm 
CTR B
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm
Posts: 148
robuchan wrote:
If so, church wouldn't pass audits. Keep guessing.


Tell that to Arthur Andersen and Enron. :)

_________________
LDS & Evangelical Conversations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:20 pm 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:48 pm
Posts: 3704
The apostles and prophets are cheats and crooks. Thomas S. Monson is the chief-embezzler-stone. They love to sit in those red velvet chairs and put on fake smiles for the camera -- all the while money is rolling into their personal bank accounts as they skim off the top of sacred funds and laugh all the way to the bank.

Cheats! Crooks! Liars!

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will gladly spend your money. Just put a check in the envelope and mail it in. Tommy has all kinds of places to spend it. The General Authorities have kids that need to get an education and that money will provide the means for them to get educated. It is the duty of every Mormon to pay up and pay for the education of the GA kids!

And fat Boyd K Packer is hungry and needs more to eat. Will someone please step up to the plate and feed his ugly fat face? Open up, Boyd, here comes more food for your fat lazy apostle face. Open up wide for Jesus!

Paul O

_________________
Let Jesus f*** you!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOymhS1RDCY


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:40 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 13795
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
robuchan wrote:
Like I've said before, the exmo crowd needs an accountant to help them vet all the outlandish financial disclosure theories.


It is altogether possible that in certain areas the LDS Church operates in a grey area concerning tax regulations. Most large corporations do test the boundaries. There are so many considerations that the IRS must keep in mind when determining what is worth going after that things the average person would find shocking are not so clear cut from a tax professional's point of view.

So, Tom could have some interesting info about odd tax practices among the GAs, but that does not mean it is actionable or that the government would go after the the GAs or the LDS Church.

_________________
The Electronic Journal of Jaredite Studies
The Definitive Electronic Jaredite Bibliography

"I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser." ~Brigham Young


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:02 pm 
CTR B
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:57 pm
Posts: 148
Kishkumen wrote:
So, Tom could have some interesting info about odd tax practices among the GAs, but that does not mean it is actionable or that the government would go after the the GAs or the LDS Church.


Agrees the IRS is not a weapon that can be weilded with any reason of certainty.

_________________
LDS & Evangelical Conversations


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:12 pm 
Deacon

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:46 pm
Posts: 217
My guess on Tom Phillips BIG surprise...

Tom is going to tell us that the 2nd anointing consists of a huge orgy where everybody gives their wives to Tom Monson for two hours

Tom is going to admit that he is in fact the real father of the late single Michael Jackson

Tom is going to tell us that he is a cross dresser who likes to smell the underware of fat women who drive buses in London


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 10:15 pm 
Seedy Academician
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:00 pm
Posts: 13795
Location: The Brutus Memorial Rectory at Cassius University
DannyBoy wrote:
Tom is going to tell us that the 2nd anointing consists of a huge orgy where everybody gives their wives to Tom Monson for two hours

Tom is going to admit that he is in fact the real father of the late single Michael Jackson

Tom is going to tell us that he is a cross dresser who likes to smell the underware of fat women who drive buses in London


So, do you have Phillips confused with Monson, or what?

I mean, everyone knows that President Monson loves to mince around in evening gowns and feather boas.

_________________
The Electronic Journal of Jaredite Studies
The Definitive Electronic Jaredite Bibliography

"I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser." ~Brigham Young


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 1:03 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:36 pm
Posts: 9355
Location: Betwixt & Between
Kishkumen wrote:
robuchan wrote:
Like I've said before, the exmo crowd needs an accountant to help them vet all the outlandish financial disclosure theories.


It is altogether possible that in certain areas the LDS Church operates in a grey area concerning tax regulations. Most large corporations do test the boundaries. There are so many considerations that the IRS must keep in mind when determining what is worth going after that things the average person would find shocking are not so clear cut from a tax professional's point of view.

So, Tom could have some interesting info about odd tax practices among the GAs, but that does not mean it is actionable or that the government would go after the the GAs or the LDS Church.


But, an IRS investigation may mean the stipends and emoluments of the Church Leaders becoming public knowledge?
It wouldn't have to be fiscal wrong doing that would cause problems for the membership.
Seeing Monson take home $2.5 million may well be as big an issue as the Church dodging taxes.

_________________
"I have faith in God. I never said I knew how to prove there was a God. Then I said I asked God a question. How do you get anything circular out of that?" Kevin Sim


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:36 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:38 am
Posts: 2004
Location: Egbert Bratt Grandin Chair of Textual Criticism at Cassius University
I agree that if Tom has got anything, it is probably some financial impropriety. I doubt he has access to some super secret documents that are of a doctrinal or historical nature, someone other than Tom would be in a better position to access those and interpret them. But, financial stuff seems more likely to 1) be hidden and 2) be accessed by someone with Tom's skill set.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:23 am 
Stake High Council
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 6:14 am
Posts: 530
All the evidence points to some sort of financial information being released. Tom lives in the UK, so I doubt the US IRS is where he is getting his information.

Over at http://mormondisclosures.blogspot.com/2012/12/pay-lay-missionary.html the blog of David Twede (ex-mormonthink editor), I found this snippet.

Quote:
Tom Phillips, former UK Stake President (and managing editor of Mormonthink who received the second anointing) told me in personal email that he “warned the church that payments to mission presidents should be reported to the UK tax authorities as they were 'employees' under UK tax law.” Tom understood “it was discussed at a First Presidency meeting with the Presiding Bishopric and they decided to continue not reporting, and pay any fines when, and if, they were discovered.”

_________________
*Disclaimer - this message and all other messages are not about DCP despite his claims to the contrary. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2014/04/i-am-a-rock-i-am-an-island-and-a-rock-feels-no-pain-and-an-island-never-cries.html


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 10:44 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 9:02 pm
Posts: 3805
Hey, as long as we are speculating ...

I wonder if there are some COB insiders leaking to Tom as he is willing and of course they need to remain deep moles.

Who know what might be leaked, and when those moles get nervous.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The Phillips Surprise - My Guess
PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:05 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:49 am
Posts: 5435
Location: Somewhere between bemused and curious.
Kishkumen wrote:

It is altogether possible that in certain areas the LDS Church operates in a grey area concerning tax regulations. Most large corporations do test the boundaries. There are so many considerations that the IRS must keep in mind when determining what is worth going after that things the average person would find shocking are not so clear cut from a tax professional's point of view.

So, Tom could have some interesting info about odd tax practices among the GAs, but that does not mean it is actionable or that the government would go after the the GAs or the LDS Church.


I would expect that the Church deals with the IRS just like it does its own members and only tells the IRS what they think the IRS needs to know.

_________________
The Law of the land and the rules of the church do not allow one man to have more than one wife alive at once.
John Taylor, husband of 3 wives, 15 Nov 1844

"I consider them Christian not because of the church they go to on Sunday, but because of how they treat their fellow human beings." Ceeboo


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 46 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bazooka, Hasa Diga Eebowai, malkie, neworder, No_Hidden_Agenda, robuchan, Roger, son of Ishmael, SteelHead, Stumpy Pepys, Tim the Enchanter and 27 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group