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 Post subject: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:47 am 
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Interesting. What do you think?

http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.p ... ead/33547/

Edited to add:

See his letter wherein he calls himself "Thomas Phillips" at the top and says he is from England and mentions his son "Alan" is a Stake Pres now: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Letter-to ... -of-Mormon
Quote:
After you set me apart as stake president, you said “Tom, now we are sealed”. ...Two letters you wrote to me are kept in a special file and in my ‘heart’. One letter iterated your admiration and appreciation of my son, Alan, and his effect on your son,...You are possibly aware of Alan’s position as a stake president.

See here where a 'Thomas William Phillips" is released as Stake Pres: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/2 ... ncies.html

Quote:
BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND STAKE: (May 9, 1993) President - Clive R. Norton, 40, personal computer services manager, succeeding Thomas William Phillips...


See here where an "Alan Thomas Phillips" is called as a Stake Pres: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/5 ... dents.html

Quote:
LONDON ENGLAND HYDE PARK STAKE: (Oct. 26, 2008) President Alan Thomas Phillips, 38, company director, Tardis Group, succeeding Jeffrey L. Kirk


Last edited by mms on Sun May 27, 2012 3:37 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:28 pm 
I'm not very familiar with the post Mormon board. Do we know if this reply from Holland is real?
If so it's a poor reply. You'd expect something a little more substantive or inspiring from an apostle. Although it is similair to the reply I've gotten from my friends and family.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 12:45 pm 
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Stormy Waters wrote:
Do we know if this reply from Holland is real?

I've known Anointed One online for some time now. I believe him. So if the word of one anonymous interwebber vouching for another means anything to you... :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:07 pm 
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mms wrote:


Knowing the internet world, I don't think that a GA would respond by email especially this type of email. My guess: it is phoney. Also, if it is a genuine letter it shows the intent of the person receiving it, which is another reason why sending such a response by email to a former member is a mistake.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:11 pm 
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TrashcanMan79 wrote:
I've known Anointed One online for some time now. I believe him. So if the word of one anonymous interwebber vouching for another means anything to you... :smile:


So, he posts a private email online to be mocked? Amazing. Glad that I am not an exmo. I would hate to have such a soul.

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I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:28 pm 
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See his letter wherein he calls himself "Thomas Phillips" at the top and says he is from England and mentions his son "Alan" is a Stake Pres now: http://exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Letter-to ... -of-Mormon
Quote:
After you set me apart as stake president, you said “Tom, now we are sealed”. ...Two letters you wrote to me are kept in a special file and in my ‘heart’. One letter iterated your admiration and appreciation of my son, Alan, and his effect on your son,...You are possibly aware of Alan’s position as a stake president.

See here: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/2 ... ncies.html

Quote:
BIRMINGHAM ENGLAND STAKE: (May 9, 1993) President - Clive R. Norton, 40, personal computer services manager, succeeding Thomas William Phillips...


See here: http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/5 ... dents.html

Quote:
LONDON ENGLAND HYDE PARK STAKE: (Oct. 26, 2008) President Alan Thomas Phillips, 38, company director, Tardis Group, succeeding Jeffrey L. Kirk


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 3:40 pm 
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Hey, whyme, do you not think that given this man's (Mr. Phillips') apparent thinking regarding the Church, Elder Holland did not understand that his response would likely be disseminated? I give him far more credit than that. I believe he likely has no problem at all with his message getting out to other apostates. No?


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:23 pm 
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why me wrote:
TrashcanMan79 wrote:
I've known Anointed One online for some time now. I believe him. So if the word of one anonymous interwebber vouching for another means anything to you... :smile:


So, he posts a private email online to be mocked? Amazing. Glad that I am not an exmo. I would hate to have such a soul.

Don't worry, why me, the more of your posts I read the more I suspect you may not have such a soul--or any type of soul.

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I'm so happy 'cause today
I've found my friends ...
They're in my head
...

And I'm not scared
Light my candles in a daze ...
'Cause I've found god
Lithium, Nirvana (aka, Cobain's Ode to JSJr)


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:10 pm 
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why me wrote:
So, he posts a private email online to be mocked? Amazing.

I can think of quite a few Mormon apologists that you must really, really dislike then.

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 Post subject: Re: -
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 6:27 pm 
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-

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Last edited by Hasa Diga Eebowai on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 7:45 pm 
God

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I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

As for the names used being identified to real people, that does not prove much of anything. Claiming the names prove authenticity of the letter is like claiming the meer existence of the Dead Sea Scrolls is all the evidence needed to prove there is a God.


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:04 pm 
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3sheets2thewind wrote:
I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.

_________________
I'm so happy 'cause today
I've found my friends ...
They're in my head
...

And I'm not scared
Light my candles in a daze ...
'Cause I've found god
Lithium, Nirvana (aka, Cobain's Ode to JSJr)


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:07 pm 
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sock puppet wrote:
3sheets2thewind wrote:
I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.


Sorta like the proof hole about this email.

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 Post subject: Re: -
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Last edited by Hasa Diga Eebowai on Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 12:52 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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sock puppet wrote:
3sheets2thewind wrote:
I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.

I like that rule, epistemologically speaking. 'pics or it didn't happen'. That leaves religious claims, especially Mormon ones, in a hell of a proof hole with no way to get out.


Yep, Mormon's believe the claimed Testimony of a small number of witnesses yet they haven't seen the original document nor any signatures.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 12:53 am 
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mms wrote:
Hey, whyme, do you not think that given this man's (Mr. Phillips') apparent thinking regarding the Church, Elder Holland did not understand that his response would likely be disseminated? I give him far more credit than that. I believe he likely has no problem at all with his message getting out to other apostates. No?


It depends on how much he knows about the internet. As we can see, the person who go the email took some pleasure in posting it on the postmo board. And he got the usual response from the peanut gallery. I would hope that GA's would be careful in responding to exmos with email. It is a no win situation.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 12:57 am 
God
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3sheets2thewind wrote:
I don't think it is authenticate based on the internet rule of "pics or it didn't happen", I prefer to better evidence, like the email header or a screen grab other wise unless confirmed via other persons its just a bunch of hoopla.


This would be decent proof. However, the point is: it is just an email. Nothing great or prophetic. And email is an email and emails are written during all times of the day, usually without much thought. Now a handwritten letter would always be the way to go when responding to someone who is an exmember.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 12:59 am 
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sock puppet wrote:
Don't worry, why me, the more of your posts I read the more I suspect you may not have such a soul--or any type of soul.


Actually, just the opposite. I am not so quick to judge. Let me put it this way: someone writes to a GA and gets a response. And what does this person do with the email? Post it on a exmormon board so the person writing the email can be mocked and bashed. Is that a nice soul? My soul is clean in this regard. I am not so quick to judge and accept without more proof.

_________________
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world.
Joseph Smith


We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”
Joseph Smith


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Responds to Apostate Stake Pres
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:31 am 
God

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why me wrote:
sock puppet wrote:
Don't worry, why me, the more of your posts I read the more I suspect you may not have such a soul--or any type of soul.


Actually, just the opposite. I am not so quick to judge. Let me put it this way: someone writes to a GA and gets a response. And what does this person do with the email? Post it on a exmormon board so the person writing the email can be mocked and bashed. Is that a nice soul? My soul is clean in this regard. I am not so quick to judge and accept without more proof.


Did you believe Elder Holland when he said at Conference that he was holding aloft the actual Book of Mormon owned and used by Hyrum Smith? Or did you seek more proof...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:23 am 
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I have to say that Holland's message is wholly consistent with the expectations I have formed after several years of reading message boards on which people who have left, or who are considering leaving the CoJCoLDS have posted descriptions (or in some cases the actual text) of responses to questions they have received from church leaders at various levels.

It is all there: the complete inability to face up to issues of fact that might reasonably cause one to question the church's account of itself, and the quick resort to emotional blackmail as a substitute response ("I am so upset ... what will your poor family think?"). The only ingredient lacking is the "You are a liar - someone just pretending to be a doubting member in order to troll" tactic that one sees on the MADboard. But in this case it is impossible for Holland to do that.

The extreme plausibility of this message is such that the only reasonable response is to presume it to be true until it is proven otherwise.

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 Post subject: Re: Elder Holland Allegedly Responds to Ex-StkPres (updated)
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:02 am 
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I actually spent a couple hours and read all that stuff. I think it's legit.

I can't stand elder Holland. He is a bastard in my book. He can take the Book of Mormon and shove it.

Don't even get me started! jesus.

Paul O

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