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 Post subject: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:34 pm 
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http://newsroom.lds.org/article/approac ... n-doctrine

"With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications."

The Miracle of Forgiveness by Spencer W. Kimball is now an official Church publication!

http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/ ... -1__195694

Isn't it wonderful? Isn't it marvelous?

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:35 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:36 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Great news!

Here's hoping that my daughter will fight to the death rather than lose her virtue to a rapist. How much happier I would be! I know this because it was told to me by a Prophet of the Lord, even Spencer W. Kimball.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Yes! No longer will we have to wonder if the following things were just Spencer W. Kimball speculating/"speaking as a man:"

--Bigfoot = Cain? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

--A girl is better off dead than being a rape victim? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

--Masturbating makes you gay? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:49 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
Yes! No longer will we have to wonder if the following things were just Spencer W. Kimball speculating/"speaking as a man:"

--Bigfoot = Cain? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

--A girl is better off dead than being a rape victim? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!

--Masturbating makes you gay? Official doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints!


Thank god it's all been made so clear now! Praise the Lord!!! and don't touch yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:58 pm 
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And for the convenience of us all, here is the full text of The Miracle of Forgiveness from the official website of the LDS Church!

http://lds.org/braille/The%20Miracle%20 ... veness.txt

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:04 pm 
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I do see it sold in the LDS store. Still wondering if it's actually published by the Church or by Bookcraft (now DMC).

Quote:
--Bigfoot = Cain?


Bigfoot is not mentioned in the book.

Quote:
--A girl is better off dead than being a rape victim?


Out of context. See the previous sentence.

Quote:
--Masturbating makes you gay?


Actually, it refers to mutual masturbation with the same sex that makes you gay. I think most people would agree.....

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:15 pm 
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More things from The Miracle of Forgiveness that are official LDS doctrine:

It is a sin for smart people to tell dumb people that some things that the Church teaches are not quite true:

Chapter Four wrote:

A prevalent form of rebellion is the "higher criticism" which is the delight of those Church members who become proud of their intellectual powers. Reveling in their supposed superiority they argue back and forth, analyze with their unaided intellect what can only be discerned by the eye of faith, and challenge and debunk such Church doctrines and policies as do not pass their critical examination. In all this they undermine the faith of those less qualified in knowledge and logic, sometimes apparently gaining pleasure from this result. But the Lord's word to such people is still what it was two thousand years ago:
... Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Woe unto the world because of offenses! for it must needs be that offenses come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! (Matt. 18:3, 7.)
One punishment for the rebel against truth is that he loses the power to perceive the truth. Hear these words of Jacob:
But behold, the Jews were a stiffnecked people; and they despised the words of plainness, and killed the prophets, and sought for things that they could not understand. Wherefore, because of their blindness, which blindness came by looking beyond the mark, they must needs fall. ... (Jac. 4:14. Italics added.)


Women who have careers are on the fast track to adultery:

Chapter Six wrote:
A word of warning is in order about wives going out to work. They leave their husbands each day and work often in the presence of other men where they are exposed to flirtations, displays of interest and affection, and confidences all in a situation freed from family concerns and thus inducing the relaxation in which romantic attractions can develop. This setup can be fraught with danger to the home.
Of course it is recognized that some widows and occasionally wives with families at home must work to support their families. But this ought not to be done where avoidable. Mothers of unmarried children should come home and, where necessary, let standards of living and luxury reduce to a point where the salary of the husband will suffice. The numerous luxuries are far too costly when a marriage and children's welfare are on the scales. The point is underlined in a sermon by Elder Boyd K. Packer:
... I would go back to the home that has a mother there. I ask you ... what good is a big picture window and the lavish appointments and the priceless decor in a home if there is no mother there? The mother as a mother, not as a breadwinner, is an essential figure in this battle against immorality and wickedness. I would also go back to the family where children were accountable and where father was the head of the family.
Would you think me naïve if I were to propose that this battle ultimately will be won on such simple grounds as the children coming in after school to homemade bread and jam and Mama there? Or on such grounds as Daddy and Mama taking their youngsters to Sacrament meeting? Or that tender hug as they are put to bed and Daddy and Mama saying, "We need you in this family. You are a part of us, no matter what your troubles are, you can come home."

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:23 pm 
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Quote:
It is a sin for smart people to tell dumb people that some things that the Church teaches are not quite true:

Women who have careers are on the fast track to adultery:


Neither point is being made in either of the quotes you gave.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:27 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
I do see it sold in the LDS store. Still wondering if it's actually published by the Church or by Bookcraft (now DMC).


Yes, it is.

Quote:
Quote:
--Bigfoot = Cain?


Bigfoot is not mentioned in the book.


On the sad character Cain, an interesting story comes to us from Lycurgus A. Wilson's book on the life of David W. Patten. From the book I quote an extract from a letter by Abraham O. Smoot giving his recollection of David Patten's account of meeting "a very remarkable person who had represented himself as being Cain."

As I was riding along the road on my mule I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me. His head was about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing, but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt and he replied that he had no home, that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable creature, that he had earnestly sought death during his sojourn upon the earth, but that he could not die, and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. About the time he expressed himself thus, I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence, and he immediately departed out of my sight..."


One day, I'm going to write a book that does not mention the Loch Ness Monster. It will allude to a sea serpent that lives in a great big lake in Scotland, but that could mean anything!

Quote:
Quote:
--A girl is better off dead than being a rape victim?


Out of context. See the previous sentence.


Nope.

This area of conduct presents a tremendous temptation, especially to the youth of this age of loose talk and loose action on college campuses and elsewhere which favor premarital sex experience. How can one believe deeply in God and his scriptures and yield to unchastity? It is wholly wrong. President David O. McKay has pleaded:
... Your virtue is worth more than your life. Please, young folk, preserve your virtue even if you lose your lives.


Quote:
--Masturbating makes you gay?


Actually, it refers to mutual masturbation with the same sex that makes you gay. I think most people would agree.....[/quote]

See: Slippery Slope Fallacy

Most youth come into contact early with masturbation. Many would-be authorities declare that it is natural and acceptable, and frequently young men I interview cite these advocates to justify their practice of it. To this we must respond that the world's norms in many areas drinking, smoking, and sex experience generally, to mention only a few depart increasingly from God's law. The Church has a different, higher norm.
Thus prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life. Our modern prophet has indicated that no young man should be called on a mission who is not free from this practice.
While we should not regard this weakness as the heinous sin which some other sexual practices are, it is of itself bad enough to require sincere repentance. What is more, it too often leads to grievous sin, even to that sin against nature, homosexuality. For, done in private, it evolves often into mutual masturbation--practiced with another person of the same sex and thence into total homosexuality.


I wonder what the factual basis is for your thinking this. Unless "most people" means "self-described Republican Mormons who live in Utah County," as that tends to be your cohort of how you judge what most people in the United States/the world think about any given issue.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:31 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
It is a sin for smart people to tell dumb people that some things that the Church teaches are not quite true:

Women who have careers are on the fast track to adultery:


Neither point is being made in either of the quotes you gave.


Uh huh. In related news, you are not reading this post right now.

Chapter Four wrote:

A prevalent form of rebellion is the "higher criticism" which is the delight of those Church members who become proud of their intellectual powers. Reveling in their supposed superiority they argue back and forth, analyze with their unaided intellect what can only be discerned by the eye of faith, and challenge and debunk such Church doctrines and policies as do not pass their critical examination. In all this they undermine the faith of those less qualified in knowledge and logic, sometimes apparently gaining pleasure from this result.


Chapter Six wrote:
A word of warning is in order about wives going out to work. They leave their husbands each day and work often in the presence of other men where they are exposed to flirtations, displays of interest and affection, and confidences all in a situation freed from family concerns and thus inducing the relaxation in which romantic attractions can develop. This setup can be fraught with danger to the home.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:40 pm 
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Quote:
A prevalent form of rebellion is the "higher criticism" which is the delight of those Church members who become proud of their intellectual powers. Reveling in their supposed superiority they argue back and forth, analyze with their unaided intellect what can only be discerned by the eye of faith, and challenge and debunk such Church doctrines and policies as do not pass their critical examination. In all this they undermine the faith of those less qualified in knowledge and logic, sometimes apparently gaining pleasure from this result.


I highlighted the part that invalidates your claim here.

Quote:
This setup can be fraught with danger to the home.


But are they on the fast track to adultery as is your claim? Nothing from this quote backs you up.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:42 pm 
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bcspace,

I think you need to stop posting so much about homosexuality and mutual masturbation and have a good workout...

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:45 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
A prevalent form of rebellion is the "higher criticism" which is the delight of those Church members who become proud of their intellectual powers. Reveling in their supposed superiority they argue back and forth, analyze with their unaided intellect what can only be discerned by the eye of faith, and challenge and debunk such Church doctrines and policies as do not pass their critical examination. In all this they undermine the faith of those less qualified in knowledge and logic, sometimes apparently gaining pleasure from this result.


I highlighted the part that invalidates your claim here.


The part where Kimball says they are using their intellect to arrive at a critical examination? Yes, that clearly invalidates my claim about "smart people."

Quote:
Quote:
This setup can be fraught with danger to the home.


But are they on the fast track to adultery as is your claim? Nothing from this quote backs you up.


What you do, bcspace, is talk to a person who lives outside of Utah County and find out what the expression "fast track" means.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Quote:
The part where Kimball says they are using their intellect to arrive at a critical examination? Yes, that clearly invalidates my claim about "smart people."


It has nothing to do with how "smart" they are which invaldidates your claim.

Quote:
What you do, bcspace, is talk to a person who lives outside of Utah County and find out what the expression "fast track" means.


Danger does not equate to fast track. Btw, I don't live in Utah county or even Utah.

Just face it. Now you're scrambling to cover up the Buffalo Chips you've laid.

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Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:36 pm 
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
The part where Kimball says they are using their intellect to arrive at a critical examination? Yes, that clearly invalidates my claim about "smart people."


It has nothing to do with how "smart" they are which invaldidates your claim.


"....their intellectual powers...."

http://thesaurus.com/browse/intellectual

Definition: very smart

Synonyms: bookish, brainy, cerebral, creative, highbrow, highbrowed, intellective, intelligent, inventive, learned, mental, phrenic, psychological, rational, scholarly, studious, subjective, thoughtful


Quote:
Quote:
What you do, bcspace, is talk to a person who lives outside of Utah County and find out what the expression "fast track" means.


Danger does not equate to fast track.


"A word of warning is in order about wives going out to work. They leave their husbands each day and work often in the presence of other men where they are exposed to flirtations, displays of interest and affection, and confidences all in a situation freed from family concerns and thus inducing the relaxation in which romantic attractions can develop. This setup can be fraught with danger to the home."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fast_track

Fast Track is an informal English phrase meaning "the quickest and most direct route to achievement of a goal, as in competing for professional advancement"


Quote:
Btw, I don't live in Utah county or even Utah.


You could have fooled me. That isn't a compliment.

Quote:
Just face it. Now you're scrambling to cover up the Buffalo Chips you've laid.


I always enjoy the person who thinks that "no death before the Fall" means "massive death all over the world for billions of years before the Fall" telling me how I am laying buffalo chips by relying on the plain, ordinary meaning of regular words and phrases.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:40 pm 
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beefcalf wrote:
bcspace,

I think you need to stop posting so much about homosexuality and mutual masturbation and have a good workout...


bcspace has already confessed (in another thread) that he doesn't have the "need" to masturbate because he is married and has active sex with his wife. But, we all know that should he no longer be married he would quickly get the urge to self pleasure himself after days of buildup. The question is: Would bcspace actually do it?

I would like to watch it. (snicker) I'm confident that bcspace would masturbate regularly if he didn't have a wife. Infact, I doubt he would deny this because he isn't going to deny the needs of his body.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:57 pm 
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bcspace wrote:

Quote:
--Masturbating makes you gay?


Actually, it refers to mutual masturbation with the same sex that makes you gay. I think most people would agree.....


Show me Bc, where "MOST PEOPLE" would agree. And show me exactly who is "MOST PEOPLE".


Wait, I'll answer. YOU CAN'T.

Homophobic dumb ass Mormon.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Image

What if the bishop finds out?

O god. I remember those days. How dreadful they were. How many evil minded bishops asked if I masturbated? It was awful. Mormonism damaged me.

Someday, a class action lawsuit will take place and the Mormon church will be forced to stop harrasing the youth over masturbation. It is a crime that has not been addressed. Mark my words, it will happen. The Mormon church is guilty of molesting the minds of children and the feds need to step in and do something about it.

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 Post subject: Re: "The Miracle of Forgiveness" is official LDS doctrine
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:48 pm 
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Darth J wrote:
Chapter Six wrote:
A word of warning is in order about wives going out to work. They leave their husbands each day and work often in the presence of other men where they are exposed to flirtations, displays of interest and affection, and confidences all in a situation freed from family concerns and thus inducing the relaxation in which romantic attractions can develop. This setup can be fraught with danger to the home.

Did Camilla Kimball ever work outside of the home?

Did SWK ever flirt with, display interest and affection in, and confide in females that worked where he did?

It certainly reads, given the certitude with which stated, like it is written by someone with experience.

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Bill Maher Faith means making a virtue out of not thinking.

Mark Twain defined faith as believing what you know ain’t true.


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