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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 5:34 pm 
God

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Well, I do live in home. I did check the page out after he posted and I wasn't too impressed with it as a reliable source". I didn't respond to him on it because he already knew what my response would be which I think gave a small clue as to how valid a source he really felt it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Genesis 30:1-43 Rachel is jealous that Leah is having babies and she has none. She begins to nag Jacob. Jacob gets upset in as much as he is doing his manly duty. It isn't his fault Rachel has no babies. Rachel pulls a Sarah routine and has Jacob go in with her handmaid Bilhuh --- this Jacob does in order to please Rachel. In this way Dan "To Vindicate" and Napthali "My Struggle" are born. Leah seeing she is bearing no more gets Jacob to use her handmaid Zelpih. And to her Gad "Good Fortune" and Asher "Happy" are born. Now Reuben finds mandrakes in the field, and brings them in to his mom Leah. Rachel says to Leah to let her have the mandrakes Reuben brought. Leah says Rachel took Jacob and now she wants the present from Ruben. Rachel thinks she can entice Jacob with the mandrakes. Leah gives them to Rachel but then goes out to meet Jacob and tells him that Jacob owes her sex for the mandrakes Leah gave Rachel. God allows Leah to have a 5th son, name Issachar, meaning "My reward." And Leah has another son, and she called him Zebulun "My honor." Afterwards, Leah bears a daughter naming her Dinah "Justified." God does not forget Rachel. He opens her womb. And she names him Joseph "May He add." Jacob asks Laban for his leave. Laban asks Jacob what's his desire seeing Laban has been made rich because of Jacob? Jacob says, not to give him anything, except one thing. Jacob asks to inspect all of Ladan's flocks removing all speckled/spotted and black sheep and goats. Jacob wishes these for his wages. Laban will be able to see what sheep/goats belong to whom. Laban then removed all the black, speckled, spotted and streaked sheep and goats and sent them away to his sons. Jacob stayed and cared for the rest of the flock... Jacob took some fresh branches from poplar, almond, and plane trees and peeled off strips of bark, making white streaks on them. He placed these in the watering troughs where the flocks came to drink and mate. Those that mated in front of the white-streaked branches, gave birth to young streaked, speckled, and spotted. When the stronger females were ready to mate, Jacob would place the peeled branches in the watering troughs. They would mate in front of the branches; however, he didn’t do this with the weaker ones. The weaker lambs belonged to Laban, and the stronger ones were Jacob’s. As a result, Jacob, became very wealthy, with large flocks of sheep and goats, female and male servants, and many camels and donkeys.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Rachel seeth that she hath not borne to Jacob, and Rachel is envious of her sister, and saith unto Jacob, `Give me sons, and if there is none -- I die.'

2 And Jacob's anger burneth against Rachel, and he saith, `Am I in stead of God who hath withheld from thee the fruit of the womb?'

3 And she saith, `Lo, my handmaid Bilhah, go in unto her, and she doth bear on my knees, and I am built up, even I, from her;'

4 and she giveth to him Bilhah her maid-servant for a wife, and Jacob goeth in unto her;

5 and Bilhah conceiveth, and beareth to Jacob a son,

6 and Rachel saith, `God hath decided for me, and also hath hearkened to my voice, and giveth to me a son;' therefore hath she called his name Dan.

7 And Bilhah, Rachel's maid-servant, conceiveth again, and beareth a second son to Jacob,

8 and Rachel saith, `With wrestlings of God I have wrestled with my sister, yea, I have prevailed;' and she calleth his name Napthali.

9 And Leah seeth that she hath ceased from bearing, and she taketh Zilpah her maid-servant, and giveth her to Jacob for a wife;

10 and Zilpah, Leah's maid-servant, beareth to Jacob a son,

11 and Leah saith, `A troop is coming;' and she calleth his name Gad.

12 And Zilpah, Leah's maid-servant, beareth a second son to Jacob,

13 and Leah saith, `Because of my happiness, for daughters have pronounced me happy;' and she calleth his name Asher.

14 And Reuben goeth in the days of wheat-harvest, and findeth love-apples in the field, and bringeth them in unto Leah, his mother, and Rachel saith unto Leah, `Give to me, I pray thee, of the love-apples of thy son.'

15 And she saith to her, `Is thy taking my husband a little thing, that thou hast taken also the love-apples of my son?' and Rachel saith, `Therefore doth he lie with thee to-night, for thy son's love-apples.'

16 And Jacob cometh in from the field at evening; and Leah goeth to meet him, and saith, `Unto me dost thou come in, for hiring I have hired thee with my son's love-apples;' and he lieth with her during that night.

17 And God hearkeneth unto Leah, and she conceiveth, and beareth to Jacob a son, a fifth,

18 and Leah saith, `God hath given my hire, because I have given my maid-servant to my husband;' and she calleth his name Issachar.

19 And conceive again doth Leah, and she beareth a sixth son to Jacob,

20 and Leah saith, `God hath endowed me -- a good dowry; this time doth my husband dwell with me, for I have borne to him six sons;' and she calleth his name Zebulun;

21 and afterwards hath she born a daughter, and calleth her name Dinah.

22 And God remembereth Rachel, and God hearkeneth unto her, and openeth her womb,

23 and she conceiveth and beareth a son, and saith, `God hath gathered up my reproach;'

24 and she calleth his name Joseph, saying, `Jehovah is adding to me another son.'

25 And it cometh to pass, when Rachel hath borne Joseph, that Jacob saith unto Laban, `Send me away, and I go unto my place, and to my land;

26 give up my wives and my children, for whom I have served thee, and I go; for thou -- thou hast known my service which I have served thee.'

27 And Laban saith unto him, `If, I pray thee, I have found grace in thine eyes -- I have observed diligently that Jehovah doth bless me for thy sake.'

28 He saith also, `Define thy hire to me, and I give.'

29 And he saith unto him, `Thou -- thou hast known that which I have served thee [in], and that which thy substance was with me;

30 for [it is] little which thou hast had at my appearance, and it breaketh forth into a multitude, and Jehovah blesseth thee at my coming; and now, when do I make, I also, for mine own house?'

31 And he saith, `What do I give to thee?' And Jacob saith, `Thou dost not give me anything; if thou do for me this thing, I turn back; I have delight; thy flock I watch;

32 I pass through all thy flock to-day to turn aside from thence every sheep speckled and spotted, and every brown sheep among the lambs, and speckled and spotted among the goats -- and it hath been my hire;

33 and my righteousness hath answered for me in the day to come, when it cometh in for my hire before thy face; -- every one which is not speckled and spotted among [my] goats, and brown among [my] lambs -- it is stolen with me.'

34 And Laban saith, `Lo, O that it were according to thy word;'

35 and he turneth aside during that day the ring-straked and the spotted he-goats, and all the speckled and the spotted she-goats, every one that [hath] white in it, and every brown one among the lambs, and he giveth into the hand of his sons,

36 and setteth a journey of three days between himself and Jacob; and Jacob is feeding the rest of the flock of Laban.

37 And Jacob taketh to himself a rod of fresh poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut, and doth peel in them white peelings, making bare the white that [is] on the rods,

38 and setteth up the rods which he hath peeled in the gutters in the watering troughs (when the flock cometh in to drink), over-against the flock, that they may conceive in their coming in to drink;

39 and the flocks conceive at the rods, and the flock beareth ring-straked, speckled, and spotted ones.

40 And the lambs hath Jacob parted, and he putteth the face of the flock towards the ring-straked, also all the brown in the flock of Laban, and he setteth his own droves by themselves, and hath not set them near Laban's flock.

41 And it hath come to pass whenever the strong ones of the flock conceive, that Jacob set the rods before the eyes of the flock in the gutters, to cause them to conceive by the rods,

42 and when the flock is feeble, he doth not set [them]; and the feeble ones have been Laban's, and the strong ones Jacob's.

43 And the man increaseth very exceedingly, and hath many flocks, and maid-servants, and men-servants, and camels, and asses.


Last edited by LittleNipper on Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:48 pm 
God

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I think you evangelicals really have issues here! You will believe that tabloid type stuff if it fits your beliefs, but something from an educated theologian or scripture, you won;t accept if it contradicts your walk down the isle and make a profession of faith man made doctrine!


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:40 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I think you evangelicals really have issues here! You will believe that tabloid type stuff if it fits your beliefs, but something from an educated theologian or scripture, you won;t accept if it contradicts your walk down the isle and make a profession of faith man made doctrine!


So many typos and grammatical errors...

Name one LDS person with PhD in Biblical studies.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:48 am 
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Well, gdemetz, if NDEs are not "tabloid stuff", I don't know what is.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Genesis 31:1-55
Jacob soon learns that Laban’s sons were grumbling about him. They say Jacob is getting rich at their father’s expense.” Jacob sees this is affecting Laban’s attitude towards him. The Lord tells Jacob to return to the land of his father and grandfather.Jacob tells Leah and Rachel that he has noticed noticed Laban's attitude changing but God has been with Jacob. Jacob says that Laban has cheated him, changing his wages ten times. But God has not allowed him to do Jacob harm. For if he said, that the speckled animals will be Jacob's wages, the whole flock began to produce speckled young. And when Laban changed his mind to the striped animals, then the whole flock produced striped young. This is God's will. Jacob even has a goat dream. There the angel of the Lord, says Jacob will only see streaked, speckled, and spotted males are mating with the females of his flock. God has seen how Laban has treated Jacob. Rachel and Leah say that they will inherit nothing from their father’s wealth anyway. They say all the wealth God has given their husband legally belongs to them and the children --- do whatever God says. Jacob puts his wives and children on camels and drives all his livestock in front of him. Jacob took everything he gained in Paddan-aram and left for Canaan. Laban was some distance away, shearing his sheep. Rachel stole her father’s household idols taking them with her. Jacob outwitted Laban and never told him they were leaving. Jacob takes all his possessions with him and crosses the Euphrates River. 3 days later, Laban discovers Jacob has left. So he goes out in pursuit. 7 days later in the hill country of Gilead Laban catches up with Jacob; however, the previous night God appeared to Laban in a dream warning him to leave Jacob alone. Laban finds Jacob and asks why Jacob has deceived him and dragged his daughters away in secret? Laban says he would have thrown a smashing farewell party. Laban says he wanted to kiss his daughters and grandchildren good-bye... Laban says he could have killed Jacob, but the God of Abraham warned him not to. Laban cannot understand why his gods were stolen... Jacob says he left because he was afraid ---- he thought Laban would take his daughters away by force. As for idols, Jacob says to look for them and let the person who has stolen them die. Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen Laban's idols. Laban goes first into Jacob’s tent, then into Leah’s, and then the tents of the two servant wives—but he found nothing. Laban then goes into Rachel’s tent. But Rachel had taken the idols and hid them in her saddle, and was actually sitting on them. When Laban had thoroughly searched her tent without finding them. Rachel says to her father, that she is unable to get up because she is having her period. So Laban could not find the household idols. Jacob challenges Laban and asks what he has done wrong. For 20 years Jacob has been caring for Laban's flocks. In all that time Laban's sheep and goats never miscarried. Jacob never stole from Laban's flock. Jacob took all loses himself! Slaving for 20 years --- 14 years for the daughters and 6 for the flock. Jacob has a real meltdown and spills his guts at Laban and thanks God for protection provided. Laban says everything is his but will make a covenant with Jacob. So Jacob takes a stone and sets up a monument, and tells his family to gather some stones and pile them in a heap. Then Jacob and Laban sit down beside the pile of stones and eat a covenant meal. Laban called the place Jegar-sahadutha (which means “witness pile” in Aramaic), and Jacob called it Galeed (which means “witness pile” in Hebrew). But the place was also known as Mizpah (which means “watchtower"). Laban vows never to pass the pile of stones to harm Jacob, and visa-versa. Jacob takes the oath before God to respect the boundary and then offers a sacrifice to God on the mountain. They have a covenant feast and spend a night on the mountain. Laban gets up early the next morning, kisses his grandchildren and his daughters and blesses them --- then returns home.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And he heareth the words of Laban's sons, saying, `Jacob hath taken all that our father hath; yea, from that which our father hath, he hath made all this honour;'

2 and Jacob seeth the face of Laban, and lo, it is not with him as heretofore.

3 And Jehovah saith unto Jacob, `Turn back unto the land of thy fathers, and to thy kindred, and I am with thee.'

4 And Jacob sendeth and calleth for Rachel and for Leah to the field unto his flock;

5 and saith to them, `I am beholding your father's face -- that it is not towards me as heretofore, and the God of my father hath been with me,

6 and ye -- ye have known that with all my power I have served your father,

7 and your father hath played upon me, and hath changed my hire ten times; and God hath not suffered him to do evil with me.

8 `If he say thus: The speckled are thy hire, then bare all the flock speckled ones; and if he say thus: The ring-straked are thy hire, then bare all the flock ring-straked;

9 and God taketh away the substance of your father, and doth give to me.

10 `And it cometh to pass at the time of the flock conceiving, that I lift up mine eyes and see in a dream, and lo, the he-goats, which are going up on the flock, [are] ring-straked, speckled, and grisled;

11 and the messenger of God saith unto me in the dream, Jacob, and I say, Here [am] I.

12 `And He saith, Lift up, I pray thee, thine eyes, and see -- all the he-goats which are going up on the flock [are] ring-straked, speckled, and grisled, for I have seen all that Laban is doing to thee;

13 I [am] the God of Bethel where thou hast anointed a standing pillar, where thou hast vowed a vow to me; now, arise, go out from this land, and turn back unto the land of thy birth.'

14 And Rachel answereth -- Leah also -- and saith to him, `Have we yet a portion and inheritance in the house of our father?

15 have we not been reckoned strangers to him? for he hath sold us, and he also utterly consumeth our money;

16 for all the wealth which God hath taken away from our father, it [is] ours, and our children's; and now, all that God hath said unto thee -- do.'

17 And Jacob riseth, and lifteth up his sons and his wives on the camels,

18 and leadeth all his cattle, and all his substance which he hath acquired, the cattle of his getting, which he hath acquired in Padan-Aram, to go unto Isaac his father, to the land of Canaan.

19 And Laban hath gone to shear his flock, and Rachel stealeth the teraphim which her father hath;

20 and Jacob deceiveth the heart of Laban the Aramaean, because he hath not declared to him that he is fleeing;

21 and he fleeth, he and all that he hath, and riseth, and passeth over the River, and setteth his face [toward] the mount of Gilead.

22 And it is told to Laban on the third day that Jacob hath fled,

23 and he taketh his brethren with him, and pursueth after him a journey of seven days, and overtaketh him in the mount of Gilead.

24 And God cometh in unto Laban the Aramaean in a dream of the night, and saith to him, `Take heed to thyself lest thou speak with Jacob from good unto evil.'

25 And Laban overtaketh Jacob; and Jacob hath fixed his tent in the mount; and Laban with his brethren have fixed [theirs] in the mount of Gilead.

26 And Laban saith to Jacob, `What hast thou done that thou dost deceive my heart, and lead away my daughters as captives of the sword?

27 Why hast thou hidden thyself to flee, and deceivest me, and hast not declared to me, and I send thee away with joy and with songs, with tabret and with harp,

28 and hast not suffered me to kiss my sons and my daughters? -- now thou hast acted foolishly in doing [so];

29 my hand is to God to do evil with you, but the God of your father yesternight hath spoken unto me, saying, Take heed to thyself from speaking with Jacob from good unto evil.

30 `And now, thou hast certainly gone, because thou hast been very desirous for the house of thy father; why hast thou stolen my gods?'

31 And Jacob answereth and saith to Laban, `Because I was afraid, for I said, Lest thou take violently away thy daughters from me;

32 with whomsoever thou findest thy gods -- he doth not live; before our brethren discern for thyself what [is] with me, and take to thyself:' and Jacob hath not known that Rachel hath stolen them.

33 And Laban goeth into the tent of Jacob, and into the tent of Leah, and into the tent of the two handmaidens, and hath not found; and he goeth out from the tent of Leah, and goeth into the tent of Rachel.

34 And Rachel hath taken the teraphim, and putteth them in the furniture of the camel, and sitteth upon them; and Laban feeleth all the tent, and hath not found;

35 and she saith unto her father, `Let it not be displeasing in the eyes of my lord that I am not able to rise at thy presence, for the way of women [is] on me;' and he searcheth, and hath not found the teraphim.

36 And it is displeasing to Jacob, and he striveth with Laban; and Jacob answereth and saith to Laban, `What [is] my transgression? what my sin, that thou hast burned after me?

37 for thou hast felt all my vessels: what hast thou found of all the vessels of thy house? set here before my brethren, and thy brethren, and they decide between us both.

38 `These twenty years I [am] with thee: thy ewes and thy she-goats have not miscarried, and the rams of thy flock I have not eaten;

39 the torn I have not brought in unto thee -- I, I repay it -- from my hand thou dost seek it; I have been deceived by day, and I have been deceived by night;

40 I have been [thus]: in the day consumed me hath drought, and frost by night, and wander doth my sleep from mine eyes.

41 `This [is] to me twenty years in thy house: I have served thee fourteen years for thy two daughters, and six years for thy flock; and thou changest my hire ten times;

42 unless the God of my father, the God of Abraham, and the Fear of Isaac, had been for me, surely now empty thou hadst sent me away; mine affliction and the labour of my hands hath God seen, and reproveth yesternight.'

43 And Laban answereth and saith unto Jacob, `The daughters [are] my daughters, and the sons my sons, and the flock my flock, and all that thou art seeing [is] mine; and to my daughters -- what do I to these to-day, or to their sons whom they have born?

44 and now, come, let us make a covenant, I and thou, and it hath been for a witness between me and thee.'

45 And Jacob taketh a stone, and lifteth it up [for] a standing pillar;

46 and Jacob saith to his brethren, `Gather stones,' and they take stones, and make a heap; and they eat there on the heap;

47 and Laban calleth it Jegar-Sahadutha; and Jacob hath called it Galeed.

48 And Laban saith, `This heap [is] witness between me and thee to-day;' therefore hath he called its name Galeed;

49 Mizpah also, for he said, `Jehovah doth watch between me and thee, for we are hidden one from another;

50 if thou afflict my daughters, or take wives beside my daughters -- there is no man with us -- see, God [is] witness between me and thee.'

51 And Laban saith to Jacob, `Lo, this heap, and lo, the standing pillar which I have cast between me and thee;

52 this heap [is] witness, and the standing pillar [is] witness, that I do not pass over this heap unto thee, and that thou dost not pass over this heap and this standing pillar unto me -- for evil;

53 the God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, doth judge between us -- the God of their father,' and Jacob sweareth by the Fear of his father Isaac.

54 And Jacob sacrificeth a sacrifice in the mount, and calleth to his brethren to eat bread, and they eat bread, and lodge in the mount;

55 and Laban riseth early in the morning, and kisseth his sons and his daughters, and blesseth them; and Laban goeth on, and turneth back to his place.


Last edited by LittleNipper on Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:51 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Albion, there are many documented OBE cases.

Also, here are just a few PHD's from BYU's religious studies mentioned in one article:

"The New Testament at Brigham Young University - The faculty"


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:56 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
Albion, there are many documented OBE cases.

Also, here are just a few PHD's from BYU's religious studies mentioned in one article:

"The New Testament at Brigham Young University - The faculty"


Cite?

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 6:39 am 
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Since NDEs and OBes are unproven as to whether they are real experiences or purely aspects of the brain working in ways we do not understand, they are speculation and the stuff of all kinds of fantasy...somethjing best left to the tabloida.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:11 pm 
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Genesis 32:1-32 Jacob is on his way home and God’s angels meet him. Jacob calls the location "God’s camp,” the name Mahanaim. Jacob sends men to his brother Esau in Seir, the country of Edom. He tells them, to say that he has been with Laban --- there until now. He brings cattle and donkeys and flocks and men and women servants. And hopes to find favor in Esau's eyes. These men returned to Jacob and say, that Esau is coming to meet him with four hundred men. Jacob is very worried. He divides the people, the flocks, cattle, etc., into two groups. Jacob believes if Esau attacks one group and wiped it out , the other may get away. Jacob then beseeches God, and says that it was God who wanted him to return to the land of his father Isaac. He is earnest and humble and asks God to save him from Esau's wrath -- who may kill everyone and not leave a generation to grow as God promised... Jacob selects gifts for his brother: Two hundred female goats, twenty male goats, two hundred female sheep, twenty rams, thirty milk camels with young, forty cows, ten bulls, twenty female donkeys and ten male donkeys. These are to be delivered to Esau one kind at a time separately. The servants are given strict instruction to say that these belong to Jacob and are a gift to lord Esau. And he is coming next. Jacob feels that in so doing he may buy his brother's favor. Jacob cannot sleep. Jacob has his family cross the Jabbok River (two wives, the two women servants, and his eleven children). Then Jacob is alone. He comes upon a man and begins to wrestle with him. Morning is coming and the man is not being allowed to get away. So this man touches the joint of Jacob’s thigh, which is put out of joint while jacob holds him. The man says to be let loose. But Jacob says he will not let him go without a blessing. The man asks Jacob his name and then changes it to Israel because Jacob/Israel is a prince with God and with men has strived to the end. Jacob then asks him his name. But the man asks why, and then blesses Israel. Jacob calls the place Peniel. For he said, that he has seen God face to face, and survived. The sun rises as Israel passed through Peniel. His leg hurts. So to this day the sons of Israel do not eat the meat from inside the joint of the thigh, because God touched this part of the joint on Jacob’s leg.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jacob hath gone on his way, and messengers of God come upon him;

2 and Jacob saith, when he hath seen them, `This [is] the camp of God;' and he calleth the name of that place `Two Camps.'

3 And Jacob sendeth messengers before him unto Esau his brother, towards the land of Seir, the field of Edom,

4 and commandeth them, saying, `Thus do ye say to my lord, to Esau: Thus said thy servant Jacob, With Laban I have sojourned, and I tarry until now;

5 and I have ox, and ass, flock, and man-servant, and maid-servant, and I send to declare to my lord, to find grace in his eyes.'

6 And the messengers turn back unto Jacob, saying, `We came in unto thy brother, unto Esau, and he also is coming to meet thee, and four hundred men with him;'

7 and Jacob feareth exceedingly, and is distressed, and he divideth the people who [are] with him, and the flock, and the herd, and the camels, into two camps,

8 and saith, `If Esau come in unto the one camp, and have smitten it -- then the camp which is left hath been for an escape.'

9 And Jacob saith, `God of my father Abraham, and God of my father Isaac, Jehovah who saith unto me, Turn back to thy land, and to thy kindred, and I do good with thee:

10 I have been unworthy of all the kind acts, and of all the truth which Thou hast done with thy servant -- for, with my staff I passed over this Jordan, and now I have become two camps.

11 `Deliver me, I pray Thee, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I am fearing him, less he come and have smitten me -- mother beside sons;

12 and Thou -- Thou hast said, I certainly do good with thee, and have set thy seed as the sand of the sea, which is not numbered because of the multitude.'

13 And he lodgeth there during that night, and taketh from that which is coming into his hand, a present for Esau his brother:

14 she-goats two hundred, and he-goats twenty, ewes two hundred, and rams twenty,

15 suckling camels and their young ones thirty, cows forty, and bullocks ten, she-asses twenty, and foals ten;

16 and he giveth into the hand of his servants, every drove by itself, and saith unto his servants, `Pass over before me, and a space ye do put between drove and drove.'

17 And he commandeth the first, saying, `When Esau my brother meeteth thee, and hath asked thee, saying, Whose [art] thou? and whither goest thou? and whose [are] these before thee?

18 then thou hast said, Thy servant Jacob's: it [is] a present sent to my lord, to Esau; and lo, he also [is] behind us.'

19 And he commandeth also the second, also the third, also all who are going after the droves, saying, `According to this manner do ye speak unto Esau in your finding him,

20 and ye have said also, Lo, thy servant Jacob [is] behind us;' for he said, `I pacify his face with the present which is going before me, and afterwards I see his face; it may be he lifteth up my face;'

21 and the present passeth over before his face, and he hath lodged during that night in the camp.

22 And he riseth in that night, and taketh his two wives, and his two maid-servants, and his eleven children, and passeth over the passage of Jabbok;

23 and he taketh them, and causeth them to pass over the brook, and he causeth that which he hath to pass over.

24 And Jacob is left alone, and one wrestleth with him till the ascending of the dawn;

25 and he seeth that he is not able for him, and he cometh against the hollow of his thigh, and the hollow of Jacob's thigh is disjointed in his wrestling with him;

26 and he saith, `Send me away, for the dawn hath ascended:' and he saith, `I send thee not away, except thou hast blessed me.'

27 And he saith unto him, `What [is] thy name?' and he saith, `Jacob.'

28 And he saith, `Thy name is no more called Jacob, but Israel; for thou hast been a prince with God and with men, and dost prevail.'

29 And Jacob asketh, and saith, `Declare, I pray thee, thy name;' and he saith, `Why [is] this, thou askest for My name?' and He blesseth him there.

30 And Jacob calleth the name of the place Peniel: for `I have seen God face unto face, and my life is delivered;'

31 and the sun riseth on him when he hath passed over Penuel, and he is halting on his thigh;

32 therefore the sons of Israel do not eat the sinew which shrank, which [is] on the hollow of the thigh, unto this day, because He came against the hollow of Jacob's thigh, against the sinew which shrank.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:48 pm 
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That was the cite in the quotation marks.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 4:52 am 
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Genesis 33:1-20 Soon Jacob sees Easu coming with his "hoards" of 400 men. Jacob/Israel divides the family into three groups. The 1st group has the maid servants and those children. The 2nd group cotains Leah and her children. The last group has Rachel and Joseph (guess whom Israel loves the most?). And Israel takes the lead and goes towards Esau and bows very low 7 times. Esau runs out to meet Jacob and grabs his brother and hugs & kisses him and both cry... Esau sees all the people with Israel and everyone is introduced. Esau asks about the flocks and herds which arrived earlier. Jacob replies that they are gifts. Esau says he has plenty and tells Israel to keep this for himself. But Jacob is insistant and very happy that Esau is happy. And Jacob says that God has been gracious to him. Esau agrees to keep the gifts and says that he will lead the way. Jacob says that it is better for Esau to go ahead, as the children are young and so it is with much of the flocks and herds. If they are pushed too much they may die. Jacob will move slower and meet Esau at Seir. Esau suggests leaving some of his men for protection; however, Jacob says that is not necessary as he is grateful that Esau has been so friendly. Esau agrees and leaves; however, Jacob then goes to Soccoth (meaning shelter) and builds a refuge and shelters for his animals. Later Jacob travels all the way from Paddan-aram, arriving safely at the town of Shechem, in Canaan, and sets up camp outside the town. Jacob buys the plot land where he camped from the family of Hamor, the founder of Shechem, for 100 pieces of silver. There Jacob builts an altar and called it El-Elohe-Israel (The God of Israel). [Note: One can only wonder if Jacob really trusted Esau]

Footnotes:
Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Jacob lifteth up his eyes, and looketh, and lo, Esau is coming, and with him four hundred men; and he divideth the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two maid-servants;

2 and he setteth the maid-servants and their children first, and Leah and her children behind, and Rachel and Joseph last.

3 And he himself passed over before them, and boweth himself to the earth seven times, until his drawing nigh unto his brother,

4 and Esau runneth to meet him, and embraceth him, and falleth on his neck, and kisseth him, and they weep;

5 and he lifteth up his eyes, and seeth the women and the children, and saith, `What [are] these to thee?' And he saith, `The children with whom God hath favoured thy servant.'

6 And the maid-servants draw nigh, they and their children, and bow themselves;

7 and Leah also draweth nigh, and her children, and they bow themselves; and afterwards Joseph hath drawn nigh with Rachel, and they bow themselves.

8 And he saith, `What to thee [is] all this camp which I have met?' and he saith, `To find grace in the eyes of my lord.'

9 And Esau saith, `I have abundance, my brother, let it be to thyself that which thou hast.'

10 And Jacob saith, `Nay, I pray thee, if, I pray thee, I have found grace in thine eyes, then thou hast received my present from my hand, because that I have seen thy face, as the seeing of the face of God, and thou art pleased with me;

11 receive, I pray thee, my blessing, which is brought to thee, because God hath favoured me, and because I have all [things];' and he presseth on him, and he receiveth,

12 and saith, `Let us journey and go on, and I go on before thee.'

13 And he saith unto him, `My lord knoweth that the children [are] tender, and the suckling flock and the herd [are] with me; when they have beaten them one day, then hath all the flock died.

14 Let my lord, I pray thee, pass over before his servant, and I -- I lead on gently, according to the foot of the work which [is] before me, and to the foot of the children, until that I come unto my lord, to Seir.'

15 And Esau saith, `Let me, I pray thee, place with thee some of the people who [are] with me;' and he said, `Why [is] this? I find grace in the eyes of my lord.'

16 And turn back on that day doth Esau on his way to Seir;

17 and Jacob hath journeyed to Succoth, and buildeth to himself a house, and for his cattle hath made booths, therefore hath he called the name of the place Succoth.

18 And Jacob cometh in to Shalem, a city of Shechem, which [is] in the land of Canaan, in his coming from Padan-Aram, and encampeth before the city,

19 and he buyeth the portion of the field where he hath stretched out his tent, from the hand of the sons of Hamor, father of Shechem, for a hundred kesitah;

20 and he setteth up there an altar, and proclaimeth at it God -- the God of Israel.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Albion, if you would take the time to look over some of these documented cases, some clearly show that it is not possible for the event to occur only in the mind! The subjects have been able to discern things which they have never seen before, such as in the "red shoe" case.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:22 am 
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Genesis 34:1-31 So Dinah, Jacob's daughter goes to visit some young local women. But the local prince, Shechem son of Hamor a Hivite, saw Dinah, he raped her. However, he falls in love with her, and tries to win her affection. He asks his father, Hamor, to get this young girl. He wishes to marry her. Jacob hears that Shechem has raped Dinah. But since his sons were out in the fields herding, he said nothing until they returned. Hamor, Shechem’s father, came to discuss the situation with Jacob. Jacob’s sons had come in from the field as soon as they heard what had happened. They were shocked and mad that their sister had been raped. Dinah and the family had been disgraced. Hamor tried to speak with Jacob and his sons. He even suggests arranging other marriages, between daughters and sons and live together... Shechem himself spoke to Dinah’s father and brothers and begged -- he would pay anything. But since Shechem had defiled their sister, Dinah, Jacob’s sons responded deceitfully to Shechem and his father, Hamor. They say first he must be circumcised. Hamor and his son Shechem agree and wasted no time in acting on this request. Shechem persuades the entire community to do this. So all the men in the town council agreed with Hamor and Shechem, and every male in the town is circumcised. 3 days later, when their wounds were still sore, two of Jacob’s sons, Simeon and Levi, who were Dinah’s full brothers, took their swords and entered the town without opposition. Then they killed all the males there, including Hamor and his son Shechem with their swords. Then took Dinah from Shechem’s house and returned to their camp, The rest of Jacob’s sons arrived. Finding the men slaughtered, they plundered the town because their sister had been defiled there. They took all the flocks and herds and donkeys—everything they could lay their hands on, both inside the town and outside in the fields. They also took all the little children and wives and led them away as captives. Jacob says to Simeon and Levi, that he and the family name has been ruined among all the people of this land—among all the Canaanites and Perizzites. They will wipe them out! They retorted angrily why should their sister be a prostitute.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And Dinah, daughter of Leah, whom she hath borne to Jacob, goeth out to look on the daughters of the land,

2 and Shechem, son of Hamor the Hivite, a prince of the land, seeth her, and taketh her, and lieth with her, and humbleth her;

3 and his soul cleaveth to Dinah, daughter of Jacob, and he loveth the young person, and speaketh unto the heart of the young person.

4 And Shechem speaketh unto Hamor his father, saying, `Take for me this damsel for a wife.'

5 And Jacob hath heard that he hath defiled Dinah his daughter, and his sons were with his cattle in the field, and Jacob kept silent till their coming.

6 And Hamor, father of Shechem, goeth out unto Jacob to speak with him;

7 and the sons of Jacob came in from the field when they heard, and the men grieve themselves, and it [is] very displeasing to them, for folly he hath done against Israel, to lie with the daughter of Jacob -- and so it is not done.

8 And Hamor speaketh with them, saying, `Shechem, my son, his soul hath cleaved to your daughter; give her, I pray you, to him for a wife,

9 and join ye in marriage with us; your daughters ye give to us, and our daughters ye take to yourselves,

10 and with us ye dwell, and the land is before you; dwell ye and trade [in] it, and have possessions in it.'

11 And Shechem saith unto her father, and unto her brethren, `Let me find grace in your eyes, and that which ye say unto me, I give;

12 multiply on me exceedingly dowry and gift, and I give as ye say unto me, and give to me the young person for a wife.'

13 And the sons of Jacob answer Shechem and Hamor his father deceitfully, and they speak (because he defiled Dinah their sister),

14 and say unto them, `We are not able to do this thing, to give our sister to one who hath a foreskin: for it [is] a reproach to us.

15 `Only for this we consent to you; if ye be as we, to have every male of you circumcised,

16 then we have given our daughters to you, and your daughters we take to ourselves, and we have dwelt with you, and have become one people;

17 and if ye hearken not unto us to be circumcised, then we have taken our daughter, and have gone.'

18 And their words are good in the eyes of Hamor, and in the eyes of Shechem, Hamor's son;

19 and the young man delayed not to do the thing, for he had delight in Jacob's daughter, and he is honourable above all the house of his father.

20 And Hamor cometh -- Shechem his son also -- unto the gate of their city, and they speak unto the men of their city, saying,

21 `These men are peaceable with us; then let them dwell in the land, and trade [in] it; and the land, lo, [is] wide before them; their daughters let us take to ourselves for wives, and our daughters give to them.

22 `Only for this do the men consent to us, to dwell with us, to become one people, in every male of us being circumcised, as they are circumcised;

23 their cattle, and their substance, and all their beasts -- are they not ours? only let us consent to them, and they dwell with us.'

24 And unto Hamor, and unto Shechem his son, hearken do all those going out of the gate of his city, and every male is circumcised, all those going out of the gate of his city.

25 And it cometh to pass, on the third day, in their being pained, that two of the sons of Jacob, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brethren, take each his sword, and come in against the city confidently, and slay every male;

26 and Hamor, and Shechem his son, they have slain by the mouth of the sword, and they take Dinah out of Shechem's house, and go out.

27 Jacob's sons have come in upon the wounded, and they spoil the city, because they had defiled their sister;

28 their flock and their herd, and their asses, and that which [is] in the city, and that which [is] in the field, have they taken;

29 and all their wealth, and all their infants, and their wives they have taken captive, and they spoil also all that [is] in the house.

30 And Jacob saith unto Simeon and unto Levi, `Ye have troubled me, by causing me to stink among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanite, and among the Perizzite: and I [am] few in number, and they have been gathered against me, and have smitten me, and I have been destroyed, I and my house.'

31 And they say, `As a harlot doth he make our sister?'


Last edited by LittleNipper on Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:10 am 
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LittleNipper wrote:
Genesis 34:1-31

Edifying, uplifting story.

First a little bloody pogrom...
"they killed all the males there, including Hamor and his son Shechem"
"the rest of Jacob’s sons arrived... they plundered the town"

...then the pecuniary incentives.
"they took all the flocks and herds and donkeys—everything they could lay their hands on, both inside the town and outside in the fields"
"they also took all the little children and wives and led them away as captives"

One can love the words of god, especially for these excerpts.

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- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 3:46 pm 
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ludwigm wrote:
LittleNipper wrote:
Genesis 34:1-31

Edifying, uplifting story.

First a little bloody pogrom...
"they killed all the males there, including Hamor and his son Shechem"
"the rest of Jacob’s sons arrived... they plundered the town"

...then the pecuniary incentives.
"they took all the flocks and herds and donkeys—everything they could lay their hands on, both inside the town and outside in the fields"
"they also took all the little children and wives and led them away as captives"

One can love the words of god, especially for these excerpts.

In this case the story is a historical account. God didn't say He was happy about it, and Jacob certainly was not thrilled. But it does go to say that one's personal behavior/actions can most certainly effect the lives of others. And rape is a terrible thing and as evil as murder.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 6:43 pm 
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President Charles W. Penrose, speaking of capital punishment, has said:

This divine law for shedding the blood of a murderer has never been repealed. It is a law given by the Almighty and not abrogated in the Christian faith. It stands on record for all time—that a murderer shall have his blood shed. He that commits murder must be slain. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." I know there are some benevolent and philanthropic people in these times who think that capital punishment ought to be abolished. Yet I think the Lord knows better than they. The law he ordained will have the best results to mankind in general.(Penrose, Charlesw., Blood Atonement, pp.25-26.)
President Penrose then continues:

Well, is there any other sin that a man may commit which is worthy of death? I think there is. I will refer you to one in the Book of Leviticus, 20th chapter and 10th verse.

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:30 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
President Charles W. Penrose, speaking of capital punishment, has said:

This divine law for shedding the blood of a murderer has never been repealed. It is a law given by the Almighty and not abrogated in the Christian faith. It stands on record for all time—that a murderer shall have his blood shed. He that commits murder must be slain. "Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed." I know there are some benevolent and philanthropic people in these times who think that capital punishment ought to be abolished. Yet I think the Lord knows better than they. The law he ordained will have the best results to mankind in general.(Penrose, Charlesw., Blood Atonement, pp.25-26.)
President Penrose then continues:

Well, is there any other sin that a man may commit which is worthy of death? I think there is. I will refer you to one in the Book of Leviticus, 20th chapter and 10th verse.

"And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."


Sounds like he thinks Joseph Smith's murder was just.

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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:36 pm 
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Since when is murder just, unless God commands it?!? Albion, there are established and documented OBE experiences which can not be rationalized by the workings of the mind only, such as the "red shoe" case I mentioned previously.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:47 am 
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Genesis 35 1-29 Genesis 35
God tells Jacob, to go up to Bethel, live there, and build an altar to God, who appeared to Jacob when running from Esau. Jacob prepares his family to go by casting away all the things they've come to worship and do not need. They are to wash. Jacob takes all the worshipped stuff, nick-nacks and jewelry and buries them under the oak by Shechem. It seems that God has made the surrounding cities afraid of Jacob and his family, so that they are left alone. Jacob travels to Luz, in the land of Canaan (Bethel). They build the altar, and call the place Bethel . Deborah, Rebekah's nurse, dies and she is buried at the lower part of Bethel, under an 'Oak of weeping.' God appears unto Jacob again, in his coming from Padan-Aram, and blesses him. God reminds him, `That his new name is Israel and no longer Jacob. And God tells him, that He is the Almighty, be fruitful and multiply, a nation and an assembly of nations will come from Jacob, as will kings. The land given to Abraham and to Isaac is given to Israel and to his seed... Jacob sets up a standing pillar of stone, and pours oil on it. As they journey onward, and Rachel (who is with child) has serious labor pains some distance from Ephratha. She dies just after childbirth but she hears from the midwife that she had a boy a son. Rachel names him Ben-Oni (Son of my trouble) yet his father called him Benjamin (Son of my right hand). And Rachel dies, and is buried on the way to Ephratha which [is] Bethlehem and set up a marker there. And Israel traveled, and set up his tent beyond the tower of Edar. It is here that Reuben has sex Bilhah his father's concubine, and Israel finds out.
Now the twelve sons of Jacob are as follows:
Sons of Leah: Jacob's first-born Reuben, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun.
Sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin.
Sons of Bilhah, Rachel's maid-servant: Dan and Naphtali.
Sons of Zilpah, Leah's maid-servant: Gad and Asher.
Jacob comes to Isaac his father, at Mamre, the city of Arba (Hebron, the hme also of Abraham). Isaac is a hundred and eighty years old, and he dies. He is buried by Esau and Jacob his two boys.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And God saith unto Jacob, `Rise, go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make there an altar to God, who appeared unto thee in thy fleeing from the face of Esau thy brother.'

2 And Jacob saith unto his household, and unto all who [are] with him, `Turn aside the gods of the stranger which [are] in your midst, and cleanse yourselves, and change your garments;

3 and we rise, and go up to Bethel, and I make there an altar to God, who is answering me in the day of my distress, and is with me in the way that I have gone.'

4 And they give unto Jacob all the gods of the stranger that [are] in their hand, and the rings that [are] in their ears, and Jacob hideth them under the oak which [is] by Shechem;

5 and they journey, and the terror of God is on the cities which [are] round about them, and they have not pursued after the sons of Jacob.

6 And Jacob cometh in to Luz which [is] in the land of Canaan (it [is] Bethel), he and all the people who [are] with him,

7 and he buildeth there an altar, and proclaimeth at the place the God of Bethel: for there had God been revealed unto him, in his fleeing from the face of his brother.

8 And Deborah, Rebekah's nurse, dieth, and she is buried at the lower part of Bethel, under the oak, and he calleth its name `Oak of weeping.'

9 And God appeareth unto Jacob again, in his coming from Padan-Aram, and blesseth him;

10 and God saith to him, `Thy name [is] Jacob: thy name is no more called Jacob, but Israel is thy name;' and He calleth his name Israel.

11 And God saith to him, `I [am] God Almighty; be fruitful and multiply, a nation and an assembly of nations is from thee, and kings from thy loins go out;

12 and the land which I have given to Abraham and to Isaac -- to thee I give it, yea to thy seed after thee I give the land.'

13 And God goeth up from him, in the place where He hath spoken with him.

14 And Jacob setteth up a standing pillar in the place where He hath spoken with him, a standing pillar of stone, and he poureth on it an oblation, and he poureth on it oil;

15 and Jacob calleth the name of the place where God spake with him Bethel.

16 And they journey from Bethel, and there is yet a kibrath of land before entering Ephratha, and Rachel beareth, and is sharply pained in her bearing;

17 and it cometh to pass, in her being sharply pained in her bearing, that the midwife saith to her, `Fear not, for this also [is] a son for thee.'

18 And it cometh to pass in the going out of her soul (for she died), that she calleth his name Ben-Oni; and his father called him Benjamin;

19 and Rachel dieth, and is buried in the way to Ephratha, which [is] Bethlehem,

20 and Jacob setteth up a standing pillar over her grave; which [is] the standing pillar of Rachel's grave unto this day.

21 And Israel journeyeth, and stretcheth out his tent beyond the tower of Edar;

22 and it cometh to pass in Israel's dwelling in that land, that Reuben goeth, and lieth with Bilhah his father's concubine; and Israel heareth.

23 And the sons of Jacob are twelve. Sons of Leah: Jacob's first-born Reuben, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun.

24 Sons of Rachel: Joseph and Benjamin.

25 And sons of Bilhah, Rachel's maid-servant: Dan and Naphtali.

26 And sons of Zilpah, Leah's maid-servant: Gad and Asher. These [are] sons of Jacob, who have been born to him in Padan-Aram.

27 And Jacob cometh unto Isaac his father, at Mamre, the city of Arba (which [is] Hebron), where Abraham and Isaac have sojourned.

28 And the days of Isaac are a hundred and eighty years,

29 and Isaac expireth, and dieth, and is gathered unto his people, aged and satisfied with days; and bury him do Esau and Jacob his sons.


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 Post subject: Re: Bible verse by verse
PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Genesis 36:1-43 Genesis 36
New Living Translation (NLT)

Descendants of Esau (also known as Edom). Esau married two young women from Canaan: Adah, the daughter of Elon the Hittite; and Oholibamah, the daughter of Anah and granddaughter of Zibeon the Hivite. He also married his cousin Basemath, the daughter of Ishmael, and sister to Nebaioth.

Adah had Eliphaz
Basemath had Reuel.
Oholibamah had Jeush, Jalam, and Korah born in the land of Canaan.

Esau took everything and moved away from Jacob because there was not enough land to support them both. Esau settles in the hill country of Seir.
The account of Esau’s descendants (Edomites) who moved there.

Of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. Timna, the concubine of Eliphaz, had Amalek.
Of Reuel were Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah.
Through Oholibamah were Jeush, Jalam, and Korah.

Original People/tribes of Edom descended from Seir the Horite: Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, Dishon, Ezer, and Dishan. These were the Horite clan leaders, the descendants of Seir, who lived in the land of Edom.
Descendants of Lotan were Hori and Hemam. Lotan’s sister was named Timna.
Descendants of Shobal were Alvan, Manahath, Ebal, Shepho, and Onam.
Descendants of Zibeon were Aiah and Anah.
Descendants of Anah were his son, Dishon, and his daughter, Oholibamah.
Descendants of Dishon were Hemdan, Eshban, Ithran, and Keran.
Descendants of Ezer were Bilhan, Zaavan, and Akan.
Descendants of Dishan were Uz and Aran.

Rulers of Edom before any king ruled over the Israelites:
Bela son of Beor, ruled in Edom from his city of Dinhabah.
Next came Jobab son of Zerah from Bozrah.
Next came Husham from the land of the Temanites.
Next came Hadad son of Bedad and ruled from the city of Avith.
Next came Samlah from the city of Masrekah.
Next came Shaul from the city of Rehoboth-on-the-River.
Next came Baal-hanan son of Acbor.
Next came Hadad and ruled from the city of Pau with his wife Mehetabel.


Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1 And these [are] births of Esau, who [is] Edom.

2 Esau hath taken his wives from the daughters of Canaan: Adah daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Aholibamah daughter of Anah, daughter of Zibeon the Hivite,

3 and Bashemath daughter of Ishmael, sister of Nebajoth.

4 And Adah beareth to Esau, Eliphaz; and Bashemath hath born Reuel;

5 and Aholibamah hath born Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah. These [are] sons of Esau, who were born to him in the land of Canaan.

6 And Esau taketh his wives, and his sons, and his daughters, and all the persons of his house, and his cattle, and all his beasts, and all his substance which he hath acquired in the land of Canaan, and goeth into the country from the face of Jacob his brother;

7 for their substance was more abundant than to dwell together, and the land of their sojournings was not able to bear them because of their cattle;

8 and Esau dwelleth in mount Seir: Esau is Edom.

9 And these [are] births of Esau, father of Edom, in mount Seir.

10 These [are] the names of the sons of Esau: Eliphaz son of Adah, wife of Esau; Reuel son of Bashemath, wife of Esau.

11 And the sons of Eliphaz are Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz;

12 and Timnath hath been concubine to Eliphaz son of Esau, and she beareth to Eliphaz, Amalek; these [are] sons of Adah wife of Esau.

13 And these [are] sons of Reuel: Nahath and Zerah, Shammah and Mizzah; these were sons of Bashemath wife of Esau.

14 And these have been the sons of Aholibamah daughter of Anah, daughter of Zibeon, wife of Esau; and she beareth to Esau, Jeush and Jaalam and Korah.

15 These [are] chiefs of the sons of Esau: sons of Eliphaz, first-born of Esau: chief Teman, chief Omar, chief Zepho, chief Kenaz,

16 chief Korah, chief Gatam, chief Amalek; these [are] chiefs of Eliphaz, in the land of Edom; these [are] sons of Adah.

17 And these [are] sons of Reuel son of Esau: chief Nahath, chief Zerah, chief Shammah, chief Mizzah; these [are] chiefs of Reuel, in the land of Edom; these [are] sons of Bashemath wife of Esau.

18 And these [are] sons of Aholibamah wife of Esau: chief Jeush, chief Jaalam, chief Korah; these [are] chiefs of Aholibamah daughter of Anah, wife of Esau.

19 These [are] sons of Esau (who [is] Edom), and these their chiefs.

20 These [are] sons of Seir the Horite, the inhabitants of the land: Lotan, and Shobal, and Zibeon, and Anah,

21 and Dishon, and Ezer, and Dishan; these [are] chiefs of the Horites, sons of Seir, in the land of Edom.

22 And the sons of Lotan are Hori and Heman; and a sister of Lotan [is] Timna.

23 And these [are] sons of Shobal: Alvan and Manahath, and Ebal, Shepho and Onam.

24 And these [are] sons of Zibeon, both Ajah and Anah: it [is] Anah that hath found the Imim in the wilderness, in his feeding the asses of Zibeon his father.

25 And these [are] sons of Anah: Dishon, and Aholibamah daughter of Anah.

26 And these [are] sons of Dishon: Hemdan, and Eshban, and Ithran, and Cheran.

27 These [are] sons of Ezer: Bilhan, and Zaavan, and Akan.

28 These [are] sons of Dishan: Uz and Aran.

29 These [are] chiefs of the Horite: chief Lotan, chief Shobal, chief Zibeon, chief Anah,

30 chief Dishon, chief Ezer, chief Dishan: these [are] chiefs of the Horite in reference to their chiefs in the land of Seir.

31 And these [are] the kings who have reigned in the land of Edom before the reigning of a king over the sons of Israel.

32 And Bela son of Beor reigneth in Edom, and the name of his city [is] Dinhabah;

33 and Bela dieth, and reign in his stead doth Jobab son of Zerah from Bozrah;

34 and Jobab dieth, and reign in his stead doth Husham from the land of the Temanite.

35 And Husham dieth, and reign in his stead doth Hadad son of Bedad (who smiteth Midian in the field of Moab), and the name of his city [is] Avith;

36 and Hadad dieth, and reign in his stead doth Samlah of Masrekah;

37 and Samlah dieth, and reign in his stead doth Saul from Rehoboth of the River;

38 and Saul dieth, and reign in his stead doth Baal-hanan son of Achbor;

39 and Baal-hanan son of Achbor dieth, and reign in his stead doth Hadar, and the name of his city [is] Pau; and his wife's name [is] Mehetabel daughter of Matred, daughter of Me-zahab.

40 And these [are] the names of the chiefs of Esau, according to their families, according to their places, by their names: chief Timnah, chief Alvah, chief Jetheth,

41 chief Aholibamah, chief Elah, chief Pinon,

42 chief Kenaz, chief Teman, chief Mibzar,

43 chief Magdiel, chief Iram: these [are] chiefs of Edom, in reference to their dwellings, in the land of their possession; he [is] Esau father of Edom.


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