I am not sure what you are getting at

No, my expectations are low enough that lies are pretty much what I would expect to see. I'm just pointing out the cynicism on display, particularly from a GA that the NOMish among us have looked to as a relatively respectable and honest one. This is an example of how low Marlin Jensen is willing to stoop in order to protect his organization.


That's true. And to be fair, in this example Jensen is acting in his official capacity, so he is operating in accordance with LDS corporate morals, rather than his own. Maybe he's a decent person in his private life.

-JV

In your narrow view they have not.

To these Swedes, it appears to be enough.

Seriously though, 9,000 members on the books? So, like 4500 active? Why does LDS Inc even care?

They must have been paying huge amounts of tithing each.

With a claimed 14 million members but with the reality of perhaps only 5 million being active to one degree or another, wouldn't it be fair to say that the "apostasy" (can one apostatize from something that is false?) is far winder than just Sweden which is one of the most secular nations in the world anyway? In Europe generally adherence and involvement in churches is at an all time low so can this be seen as part of that overall trend or is Mormonism somehow different. If so, in what way is their falling away different?

I think talking about an apostasy from the Church like it has just started is wrong. When activity in Brazil is running at 25% it's more accurate to say the apostasy is more than well under way. Last one out check the font and turn the lights off...

No, more like 2200 active.

M.

It reminds me a little of the book '1984'. Winston Smith has become an apostate to Ingsoc. He is eventually captured by 'Big Brother' yet he is not immediately executed by the government. He must first be re-educated into belief before he can then be executed. It served to reinforce belief in the members (and maybe even the leaders).

After you pay a lifetime for spiritual life you are of necessity left to yourself to try an assemble it on your own. eyee! keah!

how is the lds church going to rescue swedish Mormons from apostasy?

contract with ikea to make micro temples out of legos and have mormon families put them together in their homes so they will not have time to read anti mormon literature.

'The Rescue' is Monson's last desperate attempt at etching his name into the history of Mormonism and as a response to the question "tell me what you did as Prophet" he expects to get from Jesus.

I don't think I saw any names of the FP or Q12 on that rescue plan ... appears the history department and a seventy has things covered!

Bit strange that Prophets, Seers and Revelators seem to be dead in the church and the Irovy Tower is running the show.

I think I can speak to this. It is not so much that Swedes are too smart to be religious but they are too conformist to break out and take a stand that is outside the norm. Children are taught at an early age not to stand out in any way, to never think of themselves as superior or better. To be part of the collective is the ideal. It stems from a notion that grew in peasant villages called "Lagom." There is no English translation except maybe that one can celebrate being average.

Children are also taught not to be loud, even in the forest parents will tell playing children to keep the noise down. If you get on a crowded bus or a train full of white people (ethnic Swedes) it will be totally silent as everyone curls up into their own detached world. There is a joke that if you are out jogging in Sweden and someone says "hello" then they are either drunk, American or both.

Swedes also are indoctrinated to study religion but only in the academic context -.- never to find a higher meaning in anything. For this reason even New Age is rarely practiced in its various forms. This makes it hard for member and full time missionaries to make any progress as it is hard to get over the social barriers to discussing religion much less the Borg-like desire not to be different. Most converts are from non-Swedish immigrants but before anyone makes any comments about lower educated people I will note that most of the Swedes are far less skilled in science and mathematics than the Iranian and Arab immigrants. While Finland (next door neighbor but not related to the Swedes ethnically) has the best academic performance in Europe Sweden's school performance is nothing to brag about.

Now I am not going to say Sweden is not good at some things but individuality is not something that really describes Swedish culture as a whole.

Actually my understanding is that with the high tax rates in the Nordic nations very, very few members pay tithing on pre-taxed income.