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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 9:41 pm 
2nd Quorum of Seventy

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Our Relationship with the Lord
BRUCE R. MCCONKIE
Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the sectarian world and even among us about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus. I shall summarize the true doctrine in this field and invite erring teachers and beguiled students to repent and believe the accepted gospel verities as I shall set them forth.
We worship the Father and him only and no one else.

We do not worship the Son, and we do not worship the Holy Ghost. I know perfectly well what the scriptures say about worshipping Christ and Jehovah, but they are speaking in an entirely different sense--the sense of standing in awe and being reverentially grateful to him who has redeemed us. Worship in the true and saving sense is reserved for God the first, the Creator.
Christ worked out his own salvation by worshiping the Father.

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6843[/quote]

So, you justify your attacks on Mormons because you disagree with BRM? Guess what? I disagree with BRM on many things too.[/quote]

I disagree with every leader in Mormonism not just Bruce


"I think no more of taking another wife than I do of buying a cow." - Apostle Heber C. Kimball, The Twenty Seventh Wife, Irving Wallace, p. 101.

In the Journal of Wandle Mace the following is recorded: "Joseph told them to go to Kirtland, and cleanse and purify a certain room in the Temple, that they must kill a lamb and offer a sacrifice unto the Lord which should prepare them to ordain Willard Richards a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles" ("Journal of Wandle Mace," p. 32, microfilmed copy at Brigham Young University Library).

Joseph Fielding Smith said that "the law of sacrifice will have to be restored.... Sacrifice by the shedding of blood was instituted in the days of Adam and of necessity will have to be restored" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.94).


"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol. 6, 305-307

even the Book of Mormon says God is God from eternity

2 Nephi 26:12 And as I spake concerning the convincing of the Jews, that Jesus is the very Christ, it must needs be that the Gentiles be convinced also that Jesus is the Christ, the Eternal God;

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:13 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
...
Try to stay on topic please. What in all your quote mining shows you have the right to attack other people's beliefs?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 10:29 pm 
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Tobin doesn't seem to like quotes from hi-ranking Mormon leaders, you would think he would welcome them :question:

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2012 11:05 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Tobin doesn't seem to like quotes from hi-ranking Mormon leaders, you would think he would welcome them :question:


I don't particularly care what they have to say, especially when you are quoting a bunch of rubbish from disparate sources and not sticking to the point. What about Mormonism justifies your persecution of Mormons is what I'm asking? Stating that Mormon leaders have said things you don't agree with isn't very helpful. Mormon leaders have said things I don't agree with. So what?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:09 am 
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Tobin wrote:
Mittens wrote:
Tobin doesn't seem to like quotes from hi-ranking Mormon leaders, you would think he would welcome them :question:


I don't particularly care what they have to say, especially when you are quoting a bunch of rubbish from disparate sources and not sticking to the point. What about Mormonism justifies your persecution of Mormons is what I'm asking? Stating that Mormon leaders have said things you don't agree with isn't very helpful. Mormon leaders have said things I don't agree with. So what?


Tobin must not be Mormon since he's not in lock step with the Mormon leadership

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:15 am 
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Mittens wrote:
Tobin must not be Mormon since he's not in lock step with the Mormon leadership
I appreciate your broad understanding of who and who is not a Mormon, but would you mind answering my question sometime in the near future?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:59 am 
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Tobin wrote:
Mittens wrote:
Tobin must not be Mormon since he's not in lock step with the Mormon leadership
I appreciate your broad understanding of who and who is not a Mormon, but would you mind answering my question sometime in the near future?


I love answering Question, which one our you refering too, The Truth never is afraid of questions.

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:09 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
I love answering Question, which one our you refering too, The Truth never is afraid of questions.

i believe it was this one
"What about Mormonism justifies your persecution of Mormons"

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:13 pm 
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subgenius wrote:
Mittens wrote:
I love answering Question, which one our you refering too, The Truth never is afraid of questions.

i believe it was this one
"What about Mormonism justifies your persecution of Mormons"



That's easy if that's the one

Jude 1
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, £sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

I love contending for the faith which Mormonism attack

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
That's easy if that's the one

Jude 1
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, £sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

I love contending for the faith which Mormonism attack
So, your interpretation of that is that you should persecute others that don't believe as you do? Does that interpretation also mean you should kill them, imprison them, torture them, and do whatever else you wish as you "contend earnestly for the faith" in your efforts to force others (Mormons in this case) to believe as you do?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
Mittens wrote:
That's easy if that's the one

Jude 1
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, £sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:
2 Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you.
3 Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

I love contending for the faith which Mormonism attack
So, your interpretation of that is that you should persecute others that don't believe as you do? Does that interpretation also mean you should kill them, imprison them, torture them, and do whatever else you wish as you "contend earnestly for the faith" in your efforts to force others (Mormons in this case) to believe as you do?



Mormons killed them

http://youtu.be/E0qxsaBkAiU

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Last edited by Mittens on Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:06 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Jude 1 ....Mormons killed them

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3k7kAbHgOyo

so are you retracting your earlier assertion of
Mittens wrote:
I love answering Question, which one our you refering too, The Truth never is afraid of questions.

because it seems that you are not "loving" answering Tobin's question......so your answer is? Image

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:13 pm 
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Mormons think it's OK to talk bad about Evangelics

Mormon's say all other Churches are evil.

This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth..."
- Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165.

"What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world".
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270.

"...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels."
- Prophet Joseph Smith , The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60.

"Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent".
- Apostle Orson Pratt proclaimed, The Seer, p. 255

"After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon".
- George Q. Cannon said, Gospel Truth, p.324.

"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 5:73.

"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:199.

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God".
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 8:171.

"Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth."
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 6:176.

"Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers' sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born....You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest."
- Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:89.

"The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called".
- Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196

"But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance".
- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, 18:172.

"Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167);

"Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127.

"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."
- Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225.

"What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God."
- John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225.

"Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness. For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men."
- Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282

"...the Book of Mormon remains secure, unchanged and unchangeable,...But with the Bible it was not and is not so....it was once in the sole and exclusive care and custody of an abominable organization (Christianity), founded by the devil himself, likened prophetically unto a great whore, whose great aim and purpose was to destroy the souls of men in the name of religion. In these hands it ceased to be the book it once was."
- Apostle Bruce R. McConkie, The Joseph Smith Translation, pp. 12, 13

"Must we, under the broad folds of the American Constitution, be compelled to bow down to the narrow contracted notions of Apostate Christianity? Must we shut up our consciences in a nut shell, and be compelled to submit to the bigoted notions, and whims, and customs of the dark ages of popery, transferred to us through the superstitious of our fathers? Must we be slaves to custom and render homage to the soul-destroying, sickening influences of modern Christianity? No!"
- Official Church Publication "The Seer," Vol.1, No.7, p.111.

"And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth..."
- Supposedly Jesus Christ Himself, Doctrine and Covenants 1:30.

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:22 pm 
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Again, why do you, as a Christian, feel the need to persecute Mormons?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Tobin wrote:
Again, why do you, as a Christian, feel the need to persecute Mormons?


[u][u] Do think I'm persecuting Mormons by exposing their beliefs

:question:

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:34 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Tobin wrote:
Again, why do you, as a Christian, feel the need to persecute Mormons?


[u][u] Do think I'm persecuting Mormons by exposing their beliefs

:question:

Mormons already know their beliefs. So what is the point of your website if not to persecute Mormons and what they believe?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:38 pm 
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The Problem is you don't tell investagator you beliefs

Public Relation message of Mormonism is designed to attract the general public by offering "everlasting happiness and fulfillment." Then the missionaries are sent to ask, "do you want to know more about the gospel of Jesus Christ?" But just as the iceberg is about 10% visible to the eye, so the Mormon missionary lessons represent only a small, visible part of Mormon doctrine.
The missionary stratagem of withholding information is exposed by quoting page 9 of the "stake mission handbook" published by the Mormons:
"The standard missionary discussions, when they are taught by the spirit, lead investigators carefully and systematically to a knowledge of these truths. Other portions of the gospel should generally be left to instruction and study after baptism. The Lord has instructed ,'And of tenets thou shall not talk, but thou shalt declare repentance and faith on the Savior, and remission of sins by baptism, and by fire, yea , even the Holy Ghost' ( Doctrine and Covenants 19:31 )
It is evident that Mormon authorities are commanding an inadequate representation of Mormonism by intentional concealment of their beliefs. this designed omission acts as a virtual fraud on the individual, manipulating then into the waters of baptism and membership into Mormonism. Mormon authorities feel justified in this deception because they believe they are "legal administrators" of the "only true church on the face of the earth" and, therefore, know what is best for all mankind.
After baptism, new members are scheduled into investigators' Sunday School class where the lessions are carefully presented. In this "Intial Indoctrination" phase they are taken through the "gospel Principle Manual." Mormon doctrine is explained in Christian-sounding words and phrases; differences in perspective are introduced gradually. When local LDS authorities decide they are ready,new members are moved into regular where they study "Doctrines in the Curriculum" from standard lesson manuals published at Mormon headquarters. Teachers are admonished not to deviate from lesson manuals or supplement with outside materials.
Within the first year most members will begin preparations to go to the temple. Now they are moved into a "temple preparation class" where emphasis is the doctrine of eternal progression and living the gospel law. Brief statements made about temple endowments include the same scanty information that is available to the public.. After a worthiness interview, Mormons go the temple to be sealed for time and all eternity.
Joseph Smith Jr. claimed that God reveals the "Deep and Hidden Mysteries of the Kingdom" in the temple ceremonies. In these rituals, patrons are bombarded with symbolism, rites, gestures, and a variety of stimuli which are entirely out of context with any religious experience they have heretofore known. They are assured that everything is uplifting and that their understanding of temple ritual will increase through participation and indirect proportion to their level of personal righteousness. Only the very inquisitive ever read the wide variety of historical data and revealing doctrinal statements written by earlier Mormon leaders. These "obscure Doctrines" are often dismissed with the statement, "The voice of the living prophet is more important to us than the voice of a dead prophet." Understanding varies from person to person depending on their level of personal study and exposure. This is true, even among those in leadership positions.
"end justifies the means" mentioned earlier psychology- an idea that all men must be led ' into the kingdom' gently, as they are ready. Mormons are taught to justify this practice with two scriptures: "line upon line, precept upon precept" (Isa. 28:10,18) and the concept of "milk to meat" ( 1 Peter 2:2; Heb 5:12) This interpretation is not scriptural. Jesus said there is nothing hidden (Matt. 10:26): but we gain understanding line upon line, as we are enabled by the Spirit to comprehend what has revealed.
The Lord said, "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth... (Isa 45:19) Deep and hidden things need to be brought to the light of God's word. ( 1 Cor 4:5; Eph 5:8)

page 8 Understanding Mormonism Sandra and Conrad Sundholm

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:44 pm 
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I tell people that are investigating my beliefs to seek and speak with God. Are you against speaking with God now too?

Again, why do you, as a Christian, feel the need to persecute Mormons?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:48 pm 
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Just like telling the Truth about the Mormon Faith, if you don't like the Truth you can leave

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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Mittens wrote:
Just like telling the Truth about the Mormon Faith, if you don't like the Truth you can leave


So you claim, but all I see you doing it attacking Mormons and what they believe. Mormons, such as myself, already know what we believe. You aren't going to tell me something I don't already know (or haven't already heard), so why are you here if not to persecute Mormons with your little website?


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 Post subject: Re: And of tenets thou shalt not talk
PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Poor old Mormons....here they are not bothering anyone, just going about their business of trying to persuade the world to their cause and those nasty old Christians just wont leave us alone to do it. Why don't they just leave us alone? After all, we're the ones with the whole truth, the only true church on the face of the earth, we're the only ones with a sincere belief...the only ones who really care about people and their eternal destiny. Can't they see that their churches are an abomination and if they go to them they're corrupt. Oh dear, poor, poor Mormons.

That's what your postings sound like to me.


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