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 Post subject: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:50 pm 
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It was Greg Smith who wrote what Dehlin referred to right? If that's the case then on Ralph Hancocks' blog Schryver posted a comment saying both he and his wife read it.
Quote:
William Schryver:
June 26, 2012 at 9:12 pm

Both my wife and I have read Greg Smith’s timely article. It is a well-written and exhaustively foot-noted treatise that shines a revealing light upon Dehlin and the numerous “contradictions” to which Ralph alludes above. Whether in the Mormon Studies Review at this time or in another venue at a later date, Smith’s article constitutes a much needed analysis of the growing “ministry” of the most successful example, to date, of a species of Latter-day Saint I have lovingly dubbed the “Evangelizing Apostates of Mormonism.”

Whether this article ought to have been, or not, published at this particular point in time is a valid question, many of the implications of which are entirely unrelated to the future direction of the Maxwell Institute. Therefore I concur with Ralph’s caveat concerning the causal relationships between Dehlin, the apparent suppression of Smiths’ paper, and the recent radical excision from the Maxwell Institute of the last remnant of F.A.R.M.S.

That said, it has been quite apparent to me, as I have observed matters over the course of the past several days since this story broke on a notoriously hostile ex-Mormon-dominated message board, that the Evangelizing Apostates of Mormonism have already established their own narrative that has defined the chain of causality in this affair. From their perspective, LDS Church leadership has hopped on John Dehlin’s bandwagon, moved to formally promote a secularist-dominated Mormon Studies program at Brigham Young University, and, to punctuate the abrupt change of direction, ruthlessly (and ever so publicly) repudiated Dan Peterson and F.A.R.M.S. and everything they stood for.


Link to Hancock's blog


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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:58 pm 
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cafe crema wrote:
It was Greg Smith who wrote what Dehlin referred to right? If that's the case then on Ralph Hancocks' blog Schryver posted a comment saying both he and his wife read it.
Quote:
William Schryver:
June 26, 2012 at 9:12 pm


That said, it has been quite apparent to me, as I have observed matters over the course of the past several days since this story broke on a notoriously hostile ex-Mormon-dominated message board, that the Evangelizing Apostates of Mormonism have already established their own narrative that has defined the chain of causality in this affair. From their perspective, LDS Church leadership has hopped on John Dehlin’s bandwagon, moved to formally promote a secularist-dominated Mormon Studies program at Brigham Young University, and, to punctuate the abrupt change of direction, ruthlessly (and ever so publicly) repudiated Dan Peterson and F.A.R.M.S. and everything they stood for.


Link to Hancock's blog


Sounds about right to me. And none too soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Well I'll be damned. Can't wait to read it.

No wonder it is madness at MDDB.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:27 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:46 pm 
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One thing I find troubling (among many) about Schryver's screed there is the repetition of the apologetic lie that critics are the ones making the causal link between the spiking of the Dehlin hit piece last month and the sacking of DCP and Co. this month. That link was made by DCP himself in his email response to Bradford.
Daniel C. Peterson to Gerald Bradford wrote:
The timing of my dismissal, coming immediately after my public crucifixion over the John Dehlin debacle, guarantees that it will be read as an institutional rebuke of me and all my works.

Is there no historical event to which the apologists will not try to give the revisionist treatment? It's only been ten days since this story broke, ferchrissakes. How stupid do they think we are?

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Equality wrote:
One thing I find troubling (among many) about Schryver's screed there is the repetition of the apologetic lie that critics are the ones making the causal link between the spiking of the Dehlin hit piece last month and the sacking of DCP and Co. this month. That link was made by DCP himself in his email response to Bradford.
Daniel C. Peterson to Gerald Bradford wrote:
The timing of my dismissal, coming immediately after my public crucifixion over the John Dehlin debacle, guarantees that it will be read as an institutional rebuke of me and all my works.

Is there no historical event to which the apologists will not try to give the revisionist treatment? It's only been ten days since this story broke, ferchrissakes. How stupid do they think we are?


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A: When their lips are moving.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:20 am 
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It's kind of embarrassing how many of the apologists seem to think it's appropriate for an academic journal, sponsored by a major university, to publish a 100+ page, "footnoted" exposé of the religious views of the host of an Internet podcast. The tone of the article could be all hugs and kisses, and it would still be cringe-worthy.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:26 am 
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Someone Facebook me when this Dehlin piece finally leaks. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:40 am 
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CaliforniaKid wrote:
It's kind of embarrassing how many of the apologists seem to think it's appropriate for an academic journal, sponsored by a major university, to publish a 100+ page, "footnoted" exposé of the religious views of the host of an Internet podcast. The tone of the article could be all hugs and kisses, and it would still be cringe-worthy.


Yes. Really.

I am trying to imagine this happening anywhere outside the LDS world, and I just can't.

Let's just look at it again:

Quote:
It's kind of embarrassing how many of the apologists seem to think it's appropriate for an academic journal, sponsored by a major university, to publish a 100+ page, "footnoted" exposé of the religious views of the host of an Internet podcast.


No, it is the bolded bits that do it. No wonder BYU wanted this to stop.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:15 am 
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Hey Will,

What will receive publication first?

A. The Dehlin hit piece
B. Article on hell freezing over
C. You

:lol:

(I've made it easy for you by putting the answers in order of probability...)

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:12 am 
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Will just doesn't get it. I don't give a hoot what John Dehlin's standing is with regards to the church. What is more important to me is that he has shown kindness and understanding to those who have or are struggling with the history, truth claims and culture of some aspects of the church. Basically he has acted in what seems to me to be a 'christian manner' regardless of his own beliefs or standing in the church.

Mormon Stories is FAR BIGGER than John Dehlin. It's taken on a life of its own. I enjoy the facebook page for Mormon Stories because it provides a safe place for Mormons of all colour to express their opinion whether it be of faith, doubt or disbelief. I always look forward to Ben Park's contributions over there. Again, John Dehlin isn't a big part of it (for me anyway). This isn't about the cult of personality.

Mormon Stories helps me to be a part of the Mormon Community even though I no longer believe. There is still much in LDS culture and belief that I like. MS helps me to embrace that.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:17 am 
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What I want to see is a 'hit piece' on Joseph Smith. Now that, for me is far more important than a 'hit piece' on John Dehlin. John isn't trying to start up a church for goodness sake. Joseph Smith was. Joseph Smith claimed to talk for God. Far more important to analyse and research Joseph Smith's character than John Dehlin's...

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:57 am 
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CaliforniaKid wrote:
It's kind of embarrassing how many of the apologists seem to think it's appropriate for an academic journal, sponsored by a major university, to publish a 100+ page, "footnoted" exposé of the religious views of the host of an Internet podcast. The tone of the article could be all hugs and kisses, and it would still be cringe-worthy.


Amen, Chris. This is exactly right. It is totally embarrassing. It is also embarrassing to have a political science professor at BYU who, in his role as president of a foundation for promoting religious discussion about public affairs, named after John Adams, uses that forum to weigh in on the non-relationship between John Dehlin and the future of the Maxwell Institute (wow, there's new for you). For a guy as smart as he is, he just turned his foundation into amateur hour.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:00 am 
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I'm still waiting for Stephen Hawking's searing invective against Bill Nye The Science Guy to appear in Nature.

H.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:04 am 
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LDSToronto wrote:
I'm still waiting for Stephen Hawking's searing invective against Bill Nye The Science Guy to appear in Nature.

H.


Well played, my good man.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:08 am 
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I wonder why Schryver bothers to mention that his wife read the piece if no one is to read her independent impressions of it. Are her views exactly the same as his? Or is he exercising his role as patriarch in speaking for both of them? Perhaps they established a consensus on the piece before he wrote this deliberate misrepresentation of "apostate" views of the Dehlin situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:23 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
I wonder why Schryver bothers to mention that his wife read the piece if no one is to read her independent impressions of it. Are her views exactly the same as his? Or is he exercising his role as patriarch in speaking for both of them? Perhaps they established a consensus on the piece before he wrote this deliberate misrepresentation of "apostate" views of the Dehlin situation.


Well I am positive that she is the better half of that union and is far more honest and trustworthy than Willy which makes it understandable that he would turn to her.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:28 am 
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Equality wrote:
One thing I find troubling (among many) about Schryver's screed there is the repetition of the apologetic lie that critics are the ones making the causal link between the spiking of the Dehlin hit piece last month and the sacking of DCP and Co. this month. That link was made by DCP himself in his email response to Bradford.
Daniel C. Peterson to Gerald Bradford wrote:
The timing of my dismissal, coming immediately after my public crucifixion over the John Dehlin debacle, guarantees that it will be read as an institutional rebuke of me and all my works.

Is there no historical event to which the apologists will not try to give the revisionist treatment? It's only been ten days since this story broke, ferchrissakes. How stupid do they think we are?

Well, many of us were once TBMs.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:31 am 
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Tator wrote:
Well I am positive that she is the better half of that union and is far more honest and trustworthy than Willy which makes it understandable that he would turn to her.


If only to impose his views on her?

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:32 am 
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Equality wrote:
Is there no historical event to which the apologists will not try to give the revisionist treatment? It's only been ten days since this story broke, ferchrissakes. How stupid do they think we are?


Unfortunately it is worse than that. It is not that they count on the stupidity of their opponents. They actually rely on the gullibility of their supporters.

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 Post subject: Re: Schryver and his wife have read the hit piece
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:51 am 
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Kishkumen wrote:
Perhaps they established a consensus on the piece before he wrote this deliberate misrepresentation of "apostate" views of the Dehlin situation.


Schryver lying about apostates? Who would have thought?

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