You're not intelligent enough to have a conversation with. Contradiction is not a valid debate tactic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y

I contradicted you with facts and scholarly sources already! Do you have another question?

OK, I can do it this way too! Any more questions?

Oh yes it is...

gdemetz, I'd still like a response on the Mosiah quote. I just enjoy the way you spin s things adding two and two to make five.

Albion, among all your other weaknesses, you apparently didn't bother reading my response to that verse! It has the fullness of the gospel (or good news!) which leads to salvation. It does not contain every detail that Christ taught. How many books do you suppose it would take for that? However, it has the fullness necessary for salvation since it provides, not only the gift of the Holy Ghost which can teach us all other necessary things for salvation, but also it provides the prophets and priesthood authority to guide us in all things. For example, not only baptism for the dead, but also the other ordinances necessary for them as well as a host of other things. The Bible also has the fullness of the gospel in that sense even though it also does not contain all the details and information given by Christ.

I repeat, gdemetz....you failed to respond specifically to the Mosiah quote on baptism that I gave. As always, you go off on a tangent and fail to respond. I do not accept the Book of Mormon as in anyway a valid, or holy book of scripture....likely the rambling of some poor 19 century fiction writer....but I do want to hear how you justify that verse. Mosiah 18:13.....just a reminder.

Getting gdemetz to address the question asked is an exercise in futility. The tangents that can be argued with interpretation is where the conversation always leads, and that's because gdemetz doesn't have an answer. Facts are ignored and blind faith is the given crux... save yourself some time and walk away.

I do notice, however, that those who argue from the same position are very quick with the personal attacks which, to me, only stresses the paucity of their arguments.

Nice use of "paucity" here. Those who argue without addressing the topic are merely avoiding addressing the purport of what they've previously said. If one chooses to state an opposition to a position with the proclivity to constantly change the subject, they aren't being unfeigned in conversing at an intellectually honest level... are they?

Albion, you can't even understand that simple verse? What is it that you don't understand? Alma was a priest who went into a state of apostasy, but repented. God honored that repentance, and Alma baptized just as it was done int the NT. What is it about that very simple scripture that you don't understand?

I don't need to understand it, gdemetz, but just want to hear your explanation of it. Once again you failed to respond to the substance of the quote. Let me repeat it and I'll capitalize the questionable words. "And when he said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said, Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him UNTIL you are DEAD AS TO THE MORTAL BODY." Mosiah 18:13. Just want to see how you spin a verse that clearly suggests that the baptismal covenant is for this life only. Have at it.

Albion, I suggest that you take some logic courses. What you stated is no argument at all against baptism for the dead! The person Alma is baptizing there has just received his opportunity to be baptized and serve God in this life, and it is not a circumstance in which a baptism for the dead would be required?!?

Presumably, gdemetz, the end result of baptism is supposedly the same within Mormonism.....a necessary requirement for salvation and the add on of exaltation not matter it is done fore the living or by proxy for a dead person. Now in your failure to address the Book of Mormon quote you are suggesting that there are two baptisms and that somehow, while recognizing the difference between a living person and a dead one, their baptism has different results. The Mosiah quote clearly suggests that the baptism being performed is for a life long action only and thus, by extension, negates a need to baptize for the dead since they are obvioulsy beyond life. You did no better on this one than I expected.

Is that a camel in your throat?
When Alma stressed for as long as you live he is paraphrasing the familiar admonition to endure to the end.

D&C 137:
7 Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;
8 Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;
9 For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.

In this scripture the concept of receiving it with all their hearts is the same sentiment.
Only those who embrace the gospel with all their hearts will endure to the end of their lives.
So it the same concept on either side of the veil.

cough, cough.

Along with that logic course, I think Albion needs an English comprehension course too!

Nightlion enters the discussion displaying more of the same personal attacking style that Mormons seem to display. Is that something that they teach you nowadays in the Mormon Church? Why is it that so many Mormons cannot discuss issues without directly bringing into question the intelligence or the comprehension skills of the person they are discussing with?

That said, back to the Book of Mormon quote. I personally don't care too much what you do with Mormon writing such as this but it is amusing to see the lengths apologists will go to explain away troublesome verses. Clearly the subject of the verse in question is baptism and equally clear is the inference that it is a covenant for life only. Thanks to both of you for your demonstration of obfuscation.

You don't know that, Nobody knows for sure, You weren't there.

Well, obviously since it's a fictitious event you are right in that I wasn't there...but then neither was anyone else. I do, however, have a grasp of English and sentence structure

No you don't Albion, you just think that you do! Your brain just twists the reality of even plain and simple verses to what you want to believe it says! How many times already have I showed you this clearly?!? "Ye are gods," Albion! You can't even understand what that simple phrase means so don't try to tell us of your English comprehension!

this thread is missing the tag #trollingisanart

Well done, gdemetz. I'm impressed.