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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:44 pm 
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thews wrote:
lulu wrote:
You can start here thews:

Say something intelligent and I'll answer you lulu. This plastic backing of Liz is transparent.

Back smack, thews. If you don't have the balls to answer, just say the question wasn't intelligent.

Has anyone ever seen Droopy and thews in the same room together?

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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:55 pm 
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lulu wrote:
Back smack, thews. If you don't have the balls to answer, just say the question wasn't intelligent.

Has anyone ever seen Droopy and thews in the same room together?

Answer what lulu? Does clucking along with Liz make you feel like a man? Or are you a woman? Just how far do you have to go to speak for Liz so she doesn't have to?

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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2012 9:16 pm 
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KevinSim wrote:
Drifting wrote:
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the organization.
Mormonism is the movemement.

I don't usually get involved in terminology debates, but I think in this case I'm going to make an exception. How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Mormonism is a movement?

I looked up Mormonism in Webster's New World College Dictionary (published by MacMillan), and it defines the noun Mormon as "a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called the Mormon Church), founded in the U.S. in 1830 by Joseph Smith: its sacred Book of Mormon was represented by Smith as his translation of an account of some ancient American peoples by a prophet among them named Mormon," and the adjective Mormon as "of the Mormons or their religion." Those two definitions are followed by: "--Mormonism n."

So from there I looked up -ism and got seven definitions, the fourth of which seemed to fit best: "the doctrine, school, theory, or principle of." So it's pretty clear to me that the definition of Mormonism is the doctrine, school, theory, or principle of the Mormon Church, which is a common name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you want to call it a movement you certainly may, but it looks to me like the dictionary clearly states that such a movement is inseparably connected to the LDS Church (much more than Christianity is tied to any Christian church), and therefore the leaders of the LDS Church have the perfect right to decide who is part of Mormonism and who is not.


The term "Mormon" predates the split into several different sects. While the Brighamite sect, which maintained the title The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is by far the largest, and the organization most often referred to with the term "Mormon," I see no reason to deny those other groups that are also offshoots of Smith's original church the right to call themselves Mormons as well. Most use the Book of Mormon and still hold to the prophetic calling of Joseph Smith, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:38 am 
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thews wrote:
lulu wrote:
Back smack, thews. If you don't have the balls to answer, just say the question wasn't intelligent.

Has anyone ever seen Droopy and thews in the same room together?

Answer what lulu? Does clucking along with Liz make you feel like a man? Or are you a woman? Just how far do you have to go to speak for Liz so she doesn't have to?

I'm in touch with both my femine and masculine sides. "Answer what?" I posted a long historiographical piece on Christian theology. Oh, wait, I posted it twice. Once especially for you. If you can't find what you are to respond to, you can't find your balls with both hands.

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"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 4:03 am 
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lulu,

I will attempt to answer your question and I trust that if Thews disagrees with my response he will let us know.

The fact that many Christian churches have existed over the centuries does not in any way militate against the notion that the Mystical Body of Christ (a.k.a. the Church) is unitary. This indeed was the purpose of the early Councils, to set the bounds of the Church as being precisely unitary (or "One") as well as "Holy," "Universal" (== katholikos or "Catholic") and "Apostolic."

To reject the authority of the first Councils is by definition to position oneself outside of the Mystical Body of Christ. Mormons are not Christian because they believe that the bishops present at those Councils were apostates. I admit that the situation is somewhat more complicated when you consider pre-Conciliar Gnostic and/or Hermetic Christianities (plural), but the dividing line is and always has been the Nicene Creed.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:02 am 
Samantabhadra wrote:
lulu,

I will attempt to answer your question and I trust that if Thews disagrees with my response he will let us know.

The fact that many Christian churches have existed over the centuries does not in any way militate against the notion that the Mystical Body of Christ (a.k.a. the Church) is unitary. This indeed was the purpose of the early Councils, to set the bounds of the Church as being precisely unitary (or "One") as well as "Holy," "Universal" (== katholikos or "Catholic") and "Apostolic."

To reject the authority of the first Councils is by definition to position oneself outside of the Mystical Body of Christ. Mormons are not Christian because they believe that the bishops present at those Councils were apostates. I admit that the situation is somewhat more complicated when you consider pre-Conciliar Gnostic and/or Hermetic Christianities (plural), but the dividing line is and always has been the Nicene Creed.

So is this why Gnostics are considered heretical, yet still Christian, but Mormons are considered non-Christian?

This is interesting stuff!


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:05 am 
lulu, in response to Thews' normal asshattery wrote:
I'm in touch with both my femine and masculine sides. "Answer what?" I posted a long historiographical piece on Christian theology. Oh, wait, I posted it twice. Once especially for you. If you can't find what you are to respond to, you can't find your balls with both hands.


Thanks for giving me my morning chuckle! LOL :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:19 am 
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Quote:
So is this why Gnostics are considered heretical, yet still Christian, but Mormons are considered non-Christian?

This is interesting stuff!

Within orthodox Christianity, the proper word is mystic. It is a continuum.

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I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:27 am 
MCB wrote:
Quote:
So is this why Gnostics are considered heretical, yet still Christian, but Mormons are considered non-Christian?

This is interesting stuff!

Within orthodox Christianity, the proper word is mystic. It is a continuum.

Ah, OK.

So here is a question. What would the LDS Church have to do if it wanted to be considered part of mainstream Christianity?


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:32 am 
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Regard the Book of Mormon as useful lit (particularly where it condemns modern Mormonism), and forget about the temple, for starters. And accept the Three in One, of course.

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Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:49 am 
I am actually curious as to why President Hinckley campaigned so hard for Mormonism to be accepted as part of the mainstream Christian community. It seemed like he was going against the nature of Lehi's dream in the Book of Mormon, wanting to turn the modern Church into part of the Great and Spacious building.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:58 am 
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Samantabhadra wrote:
lulu,

I will attempt to answer your question and I trust that if Thews disagrees with my response he will let us know.

The fact that many Christian churches have existed over the centuries does not in any way militate against the notion that the Mystical Body of Christ (a.k.a. the Church) is unitary. This indeed was the purpose of the early Councils, to set the bounds of the Church as being precisely unitary (or "One") as well as "Holy," "Universal" (== katholikos or "Catholic") and "Apostolic."

To reject the authority of the first Councils is by definition to position oneself outside of the Mystical Body of Christ. Mormons are not Christian because they believe that the bishops present at those Councils were apostates. I admit that the situation is somewhat more complicated when you consider pre-Conciliar Gnostic and/or Hermetic Christianities (plural), but the dividing line is and always has been the Nicene Creed.


Please define and provide 2 examples of each:

1. heretic
2. infidel
3. pagan
4. heathen

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


Last edited by lulu on Thu May 31, 2012 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:04 am 
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MCB wrote:
Quote:
So is this why Gnostics are considered heretical, yet still Christian, but Mormons are considered non-Christian?

This is interesting stuff!

Within orthodox Christianity, the proper word is mystic. It is a continuum.

The proper word for what?

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:08 am 
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me
Within orthodox Christianity, the proper word is mystic. It is a continuum.

lulu
The proper word for what?

me
The orthodox Christian who stays within bounds, but has a Gnostic tendency would be a mystic.

_________________
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:22 am 
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MCB wrote:
me
Within orthodox Christianity, the proper word is mystic. It is a continuum.

lulu
The proper word for what?

me
The orthodox Christian who stays within bounds, but has a Gnostic tendency would be a mystic.

It's your position that termologically orthodox Christianity would treat Basilides and Hildegard the same?

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:38 am 
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My background is psychology and sociology. Please give me links.

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Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:42 am 
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1. Pray to Google.
2. When quoting, please include the name of the person you are quoting.
3. When responding, please include a quote of what you are responding to.

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"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:45 am 
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I will ask the google god.

Just lazy today. :ugeek:

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Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:49 am 
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MCB wrote:
I will ask the google god.

Just lazy today. :ugeek:

Click on the "quote" button, it will do the work for you.

Now if someone would tell me how to enable PM.

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:13 am 
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Go to user CP, under options, go to edit global settings, then
Quote:
Allow users to send you private messages:
and click in the circle. then on the blue band below, submit.

_________________
Huckelberry said:
I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a ... cc_toc.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Mormonism not Christian...
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:21 am 
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MCB wrote:
Go to user CP, under options, go to edit global settings, then
Quote:
Allow users to send you private messages:
and click in the circle. then on the blue band below, submit.

Not seeing "edit global settings" under "options." But at least I found "options." :smile:

_________________
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.


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