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 Post subject: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 12:35 am 
God

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I've heard this phrase a couple of times.

What is it?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:03 am 
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Drifting wrote:
I've heard this phrase a couple of times.

What is it?


It is your "Calling and election made sure"; "receiving the second comforter"; "The more sure word of prophecy".

Sometimes it is referred to as the second endowment. In the early days of the church, getting ones second endowment was quite common, and did not neccessarily carry with it the implications that it became known for later.

With the passage of time, the second endowment involved a couple receiving an invitation from a member of the twelve. From my understanding, part of the endowment took place in the temple, and the second portion, in the couples home. In the last portion they had the opportunity to "Seek the face of the lord", if they so wished, which was nothing less than a visitation from Christ himself.

That is what I recall from my days in middle earth, but I have to admit that it has been along time since I was in the shire....

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Last edited by Maxrep on Mon May 28, 2012 5:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:05 am 
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Here is an account of the actual ceremony.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:31 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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LDSToronto wrote:


Oh....
My....
God....

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Hmmmmmmmm....

What happens if you have had the "second anointing" and you are later excommunicated from the church?

Like my former Stake President. Who was gay (and still is) at the time of his anointing. Who was ex'd after it was revealed he was having a seven year affair with another dude. Who now believes the church is a bunch of hocus pocus.

Is his calling and election still "made sure"?

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 1:56 pm 
God
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Drifting wrote:
I've heard this phrase a couple of times.

What is it?


A good breakdown of the history and development of the Second Anointing is in David Buerger's The Mysteries of Godliness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship. It appears from a few contemporary accounts that it continues today as a secret ritual that members aren't even supposed to inform family members they have received.

In the Book of Mormon it says after all you can do it is by grace that you are saved and so this ritual appears to determine for some people that they have already done all that they can do. Something that has always interested me is that some LDS leaders when they learn about Joseph Smith's polyandry or actions of Brigham Young they respond by saying that they will have to answer for what they did. There is a scripture where it says that those who sin will have to be subjected to the buffetings of Satan and suffer for their own sins, but then are able to receive their exaltation. The only sins that lead to forfeiting it are sinning against the Holy Ghost and shedding innocent blood. It is also interesting to note that historically and from the contemporary accounts that we have it isn't uncommon for someone to be blessed with "Godhood/Godhead", which completely contradicts the PR attempts by mopologists and Church leaders like Gordon B. Hinckley.

It does raise the question, what other archaic mormon rituals and practices are continued in secrecy even from family members??

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:02 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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Jonah wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm....

What happens if you have had the "second anointing" and you are later excommunicated from the church?

Like my former Stake President. Who was gay (and still is) at the time of his anointing. Who was ex'd after it was revealed he was having a seven year affair with another dude. Who now believes the church is a bunch of hocus pocus.

Is his calling and election still "made sure"?


Apparently yes.
He can live his gay life and still gain Celestial glory providing he avoids shedding innocent blood.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:07 pm 
God
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Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 1:57 am
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Maxrep wrote:
Drifting wrote:
I've heard this phrase a couple of times.

What is it?


It is your "Calling and election made sure"; "receiving the second comforter"; "The more sure word of prophecy".

Sometimes it is referred to as the second endowment. In the early days of the church, getting ones second endowment was quite common, and did not neccessarily carry with it the implications that it became known for later.

With the passage of time, the second endowment involved a couple receiving an invitation from a member of the twelve. From my understanding, part of the endowment took place in the temple, and the second portion, in the couples home. In the last portion they had the opportunity to "Seek the face of the lord", if they so wished, which was nothing less than a visitation from Christ himself.

That is what I recall from my days in middle earth, but I have to admit that it has been along time since I was in the shire....


I would say it has gone through a few evolutions, from Joseph Smith's ultra-secretive inner circle to Brigham Young and some of his successors giving it to almost everyone. A later prophet when they were attempting to crack down on polygamy understood that it was counterproductive to have a religious rite that guaranteed exaltation to polygamists, even when they were disobeying the law of the Church and the land, so it was minimized. The Buerger book has actual numbers of people who have received the ordinance in different periods if I remember right. The information dries up in the mid twentieth century though.

I think the implications originally were extremely profound. Joseph Smith did have a habit of promising people exaltation and that they would be saved for being loyal to him and doing things for him. The Second Anointing appears to be that in ritual form. The fact that it is in imitation of what the women did to Jesus shows one source for all the statements in the Journal of Discourses that Jesus was a polygamist, why else would these women have been performing a ritual reserved for wives??

I think now the LDS Church tries to downplay it as just "a special blessing", but I think that is for PR reasons, if they don't view it as being so important then why the level of secrecy that even family members aren't to be told that it exists or that the couple has received it.

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

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Kent - "Utter nonsense."


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:13 pm 
God
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Drifting wrote:
Jonah wrote:
Hmmmmmmmm....

What happens if you have had the "second anointing" and you are later excommunicated from the church?

Like my former Stake President. Who was gay (and still is) at the time of his anointing. Who was ex'd after it was revealed he was having a seven year affair with another dude. Who now believes the church is a bunch of hocus pocus.

Is his calling and election still "made sure"?


Apparently yes.
He can live his gay life and still gain Celestial glory providing he avoids shedding innocent blood.


This is an interesting question and I'm not sure I know the answer to it or if there is a definitive answer. Can the Church undo the second anointing once an individual has received it? Who knows, not that it is real anyways. They don't appear to be consistent in their positions on issues so it is impossible to say.

If he was never caught, or was caught and never ex'ed then the answer appears to be undoubtedly yes his calling and election would be made sure. I can see why they could claim that excommunication cancels it.

Thanks,

Hasa Diga Eebowai

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Kent - "Utter nonsense."


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 4:40 pm 
High Priest

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:38 pm
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Drifting wrote:
I've heard this phrase a couple of times.

What is it?


Here is a nice typescript of Heber Kimball's

http://www.ldsendowment.org/kimball.html

Also Kimball's diary records the second part of the ceremony. If you would like to read that part, I will see if it is on the Internet.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:43 pm 
God
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Jonah wrote:
H
Is his calling and election still "made sure"?


His indulgence is paid in full.

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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:48 pm 
High Priest

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:38 pm
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I also wanted to mention that Devery Anderson's excellent book on the "Development of LDS Temple Worship" has some great accounts. On page 414 he quotes Russell Nelson telling about his 2nd and that he went on a Sunday (when the temples are closed) and on page 430 he quotes Joseph Bentley getting his 2nd where he says that he along with five or six other couples where with him and his wife as they went into the Holy of Holies in the Salt Lake City temple.

A friend of mine who lives in the Jordon River area says that often he sees cars in the parking lot of the temple on Sundays. We both have figured that this is one of the temples that members of the 12 use for peoples 2nds.


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 Post subject: Re: What is the 'second annointing'?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:18 pm 
God
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The second anointing is different from your calling and election being made sure. The second anointing is merely an ordinance performed in the temple. It has no more power to save you than baptism. Your calling and election is only possible with the Lord himself. If the Lord appears and judges you and says your calling and election is made sure - then save falling as a son of perdition like Judas - you are saved. There are only a few individuals I know have had their calling and election made sure - the holy prophets, the 12 disciples, and the 12 apostles of Christ. Four of whom, despite having their calling and election made sure, wished to continue in the flesh in service to God and mankind.

Sons of perdition are those who have seen and know for certain there is a God, then turn and deny that. You cannot be perdition without that knowledge. Anyone that claims they are perdition otherwise is merely a liar and a Telestial being.


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