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 Post subject: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 6:48 am 
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"I want to save social security." I can't tell how much such statements from the Republican party disappoint me. Being disparaged as a ruthless Nazi for wanting to get rid of social security made me feel on an island but I have found some hope,

http://ramparts360.com/2012/05/sos-libe ... ng-people/

Young people are actually comprehending that it's not fair that the older generation get to live above their means at the expense of those who come after them. Generally voters are just too stupid to pay any attention to the fact that the budget numbers don't add up. Openly cutting social security has become political death given that many older Americans feel that they are entitled to what they paid in, while refusing to aknowledge they allowed their Democratic leadership to spend that money long ago on disabilty, funding and promoting illegal and mass immigration, and every other redistribution of wealth around the world program imanginable which is in fact what social security has become. Young people are too often too shortsighted and too stupid to see what the older generation is doing to them, but they're also outnumbered. And the politics of that basically leads to slavery in a democratic system.

More people don't pay taxes than those that do. The Republican party is not built by the 1%. It's built by the people who have to go to work every day to pay for those that don't/won't do so themselves. And guess what. Working people could very well become outnumbered.

I met a 69 year old man the other day. He talked to me about wanting to see better so that he could continue to work. I couldn't help but admire this fellow. I'd like to believe that's what I will do if I am unfortunate enough to live that long. How many people would just draw a check and say, "I've worked all my life, it's time for other people to pay for my leisure." Instead he's still out there working 4 days a week, slowed down by age, but doing all he can to be self reliant. Such old germanic virtues are now as uncommon in this population as this man's last name.

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Last edited by ajax18 on Sat May 26, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:54 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
Such old germanic virtues


:question:

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 8:57 am 
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While the germans may have been very stupid about politics, their culture of work is part of what allowed them to be so frighteningly efficient even under the National Socialist regime. I found the third Reich to be an odd case in history because socialism usually develops and attracts welfare cases.

Every time I turn on MSNBC I hear terms like, "The war on the poor." What about the war on the American taxpayer being waged by those that breed them but force somebody else to feed them. Oh that's right, we're the slave class that is only here to support those that want to bring Latinos in to do the work, while our own people shamelessly accept welfare saying, "Just couldn't find a job." What will be the result of this mass immigration? I foresee centuries, even millenia, of payback for "oppression," of the immigrants at low wages just as black slavery has done in the past. Indeed Latinos see themselves as the new Negros.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:48 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
While the germans may have been very stupid about politics, their culture of work is part of what allowed them to be so frighteningly efficient even under the National Socialist regime. I found the third Reich to be an odd case in history because socialism usually develops and attracts welfare cases.
It's amazing what can be done when the government takes a strong hand in the economy. Btw American workers are some of the most productive in the world and they do it for much less than the average German worker makes.

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Every time I turn on MSNBC I hear terms like, "The war on the poor." What about the war on the American taxpayer being waged by those that breed them but force somebody else to feed them. Oh that's right, we're the slave class that is only here to support those that want to bring Latinos in to do the work, while our own people shamelessly accept welfare saying, "Just couldn't find a job." What will be the result of this mass immigration? I foresee centuries, even millenia, of payback for "oppression," of the immigrants at low wages just as black slavery has done in the past.


Yes there is no "war on the poor". Oh wait:

Image

As to the war on the American taxpayer, there are just as many whites breeding kids they can't feed so stop trying to make it about minorities like you always do. If you don't think so why don't you go to your local Walmart sometime and watch white people pay with SNAP and food stamps and other subsidies. America should be focused on creating jobs rather than taking away unemployment and poor benefits.

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Indeed Latinos see themselves as the new Negros.


WTF? Do you know any Latinos? Talk about a "German work ethic" Latinos will work your ass into the ground.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:05 am 
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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 10:47 am 
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As to the war on the American taxpayer, there are just as many whites breeding kids they can't feed so stop trying to make it about minorities like you always do.


Agreed that there are white people who breed them and won't feed them. Either way, it still comes down to those that work and those that won't. And you've never been able to answer for me why it is that we need immigrants when we can't find enough jobs for the people already here. Latinos don't do jobs that Americans won't do. They do them for a price American's won't do them for. Even if they made the minimum wage $10/hr, that's still not enough to live on IMHO. When there's too many people and not enough capital labor is undervalued in the market. Democrats can't be both for the American worker and offer the American Dream to every immigrant who might like to have what we have right now. It might add up politically to winning an election by buying immigrant votes as long as the American worker is too stupid to understand the consequences of mass immigration, but it won't add up fiscally. Again we see the real reason the budget will never be balanced, what sells in a democratic election, is not what will actually balance the budget.

Quote:
WTF? Do you know any Latinos? Talk about a "German work ethic" Latinos will work your ass into the ground.


Agreed that Latinos will work hard and I do respect that about them. But they also reproduce too much and it stops them from improving their situation. If they all work so hard, why can't they make their own countries any better?

Quote:
WTF? Do you know any Latinos?


Yes, the exact words of the Latinos on the construction crew I worked with once was, "You remember how it was for blacks before the 60s, that's how it is for us right now." It doesn't matter to them that they came here not at my gunpoint, but rather against my will. In the end, it's always the white man's fault.

Quote:
It's amazing what can be done when the government takes a strong hand in the economy.


The third Reich was the exception, not the rule.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sat May 26, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Being disparaged as a ruthless Nazi for wanting to get rid of social security made me feel on an island but I have found some hope


I won't disparage you for that.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Sun May 27, 2012 11:03 pm 
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Ajax, the concept of Social Security came from Germany***. I know you might say that came from the old Germany before Hitler, but I fail to see how gas ovens would be a good retirement option.



*** The German social security system can about, so the superannuated (old) workers could relinquish their jobs for younger workers.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:45 am 
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Quote:
Young people are actually comprehending that it's not fair that the older generation get to live above their means at the expense of those who come after them

You clearly do not understand Social Security, which isn't surprising. It is a common misunderstanding, especially among the folks on the Right who love to attack it. Social Security is funded strictly from payroll taxes and you do not qualify for benefits unless you've paid into them. So it isn't the "young" workers supporting the elderly. It is simply a matter of the elderly reaping the benefits they spent their life paying into. And what's more, illegal immigrants pay into our social security system as well, something like $100 billion a year which they will never be able to get back. Your entire rant is based on ignorance.
Quote:
Generally voters are just too stupid to pay any attention to the fact that the budget numbers don't add up. Openly cutting social security has become political death given that many older Americans feel that they are entitled to what they paid in, while refusing to aknowledge they allowed their Democratic leadership to spend that money long ago on disabilty, funding and promoting illegal and mass immigration, and every other redistribution of wealth around the world program imanginable which is in fact what social security has become. Young people are too often too shortsighted and too stupid to see what the older generation is doing to them, but they're also outnumbered. And the politics of that basically leads to slavery in a democratic system.


Again, you do not understand Social Security.

Quote:
More people don't pay taxes than those that do.


!?

Quote:
The Republican party is not built by the 1%. It's built by the people who have to go to work every day to pay for those that don't/won't do so themselves. And guess what. Working people could very well become outnumbered.


You're delusional. If this were true then why is it that 45% of Obama's donors are small donors under $200 while the percentage for Mitt is somewhere around 10%? Mitt's donors are overwhelmingly coming from a tiny minority from the wealthy class.

If this were true, the Right wouldn't be attacking Social Security in ignorance the way they do.

If this were true then the working class wouldn't be overwhelmingly Democrat. Unions are supported by the Left and attacked by the Right. Any time workers get together to bargain for a better deal, the Republicans are right there with their corporate money, lobbying against them. Whenever consumers are trying to fight for more rights against the oppresive tactics of corporations, the Republicans are right there with lobbyist money trying to make corporations immune to lawsuit. The examples go on and on and there is usually a definitive trend where the RIght wing soaks up the corporate funded lobbying money while those who stand by the working class are generally politicians who hail from the Left.

Quote:
I met a 69 year old man the other day. He talked to me about wanting to see better so that he could continue to work. I couldn't help but admire this fellow.


Probably because his SS benefits weren't enough for him to maintain the quality of life he desired. given the skyrocketing cost of health care, I don't blame him.

Quote:
I'd like to believe that's what I will do if I am unfortunate enough to live that long. How many people would just draw a check and say, "I've worked all my life, it's time for other people to pay for my leisure."


Again, you misrepresent Social Security. It isn't a matter of others paying for anyone else's "leisure."

Quote:
Instead he's still out there working 4 days a week, slowed down by age, but doing all he can to be self reliant.


That is a myth that so many on the RIght just don't understand. There is no such a thing as "self reliance." Living in society you are dependent on that society as well as the taxes they pay into. I highly doubt this man wants to work for the reasons to attribute to him. Most people who work after that age do so because they have no choice. Michael Moore's film "SICKO" interviewed a number of people who were working well into their seventies, working multiple jobs emptying trash and bagging groceries just so they could pay for their wife's prescription medication. YOu folks on the Right would have people work themselves to their deaths with no chance of retiring, and then act like it was some kind of virtue. As has been shown, thanks to the Right Wing philosophy since Reagan, wages have stagnated among the working class while production from them has continued to skyrocket, meaning they work harder and get paid less. Why? Because corporations want more profit. And they can only profit more by paying workers less than what they're worth. Thanks to big money in government, mostly supported by conservatives (such as the Supreme Court justices who weighed in favor of Citizens United allowing corporations to dump unlimited funds into political campaigns) the Republicans will always have an edge when it comes too their agenda of screwing the working class.

You need to read these examples of myths being propagated about Social Security.

http://www.ssa.gov/history/InternetMyths.html
http://money.msn.com/retirement-plan/5- ... eston.aspx

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:57 am 
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Quote:
Social Security is funded strictly from payroll taxes and you do not qualify for benefits unless you've paid into them.


Isn't disability taken from social security funds. I didn't even realized that disability is paid out to infants (under 18). If you can get a doctor to sign a paper saying, "Yes she has dry eye, or yes she's cross eyed," then the parents can get $1200/month. I guess it only works if you have connections to the bureaucret writing the check though. I've seen Vietnam veterans who lost a leg during the war denied disability and told that his $200/month verterans pension was all they could give him. You want to ask again why I hate socialism?

Quote:
something like $100 billion a year which they will never be able to get back. Your entire rant is based on ignorance.


I've seen people collecting social security for decades in Latin America because they worked illegally in the United states for as little as 6 months.


Quote:
If this were true, the Right wouldn't be attacking Social Security in ignorance the way they do.


That was the point of the post. The right's platform is to save social security. I'd like to see it abolished.

Quote:
Probably because his SS benefits weren't enough for him to maintain the quality of life he desired. given the skyrocketing cost of health care, I don't blame him.


Nor will they ever be again no matter how high you tax the current people going to work every day. You act like Social Security is still some sort of retirement fund. The government spent that money long ago on other things. They didn't save it. They paid it out to countless people who didn't pay in the form of disability. They paid people many times what they paid into it. Even with the people who died early and got nothing, nothing for their family, nothing, it's still bankrupt. You know that. Social security has become nothing more than a redistribution of wealth system.

Quote:
Most people who work after that age do so because they have no choice.


I'd say that most people who work at any age do so because they have no choice. It's part of what it means to survive in this world.

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You folks on the Right would have people work themselves to their deaths with no chance of retiring, and then act like it was some kind of virtue.


It is a virtue.


Quote:
As has been shown, thanks to the Right Wing philosophy since Reagan, wages have stagnated among the working class while production from them has continued to skyrocket, meaning they work harder and get paid less. Why? Because corporations want more profit.


I disagree. It's because corporations are free to find people who will work for less. They'll always be another immigrant willing to work for less or do whatever it takes to win your job in the workplace.

Quote:
And they can only profit more by paying workers less than what they're worth.


Now this, I'll agree with. Kevin, couldn't you and I both agree that minimum wage, or even $10/hour is not enough money to live on in this country. What difference does raising the minimum wage to $7.25 make anyway? I'm all for getting rid of cheap labor, but I just don't see how the U.S. could ever pull that off in a global economy. I hate cheap labor. I think it's wrong like slavery is wrong.


Quote:
the Republicans will always have an edge when it comes too their agenda of screwing the working class.


Perhaps if the Democrats quit courting votes from the welfare class, they'd get more love from working people.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:57 am 
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Quote:
Isn't disability taken from social security funds.

Yes but only if you worked and paid into the SS pool. So far Social Security has been a massive success and people love it. It is only becoming an issue lately because of the baby boomers retiring beginning in 2008. There will probably be a need to increase the SS payroll tax to compensate for this, but we're only talking about a couple percentage points. But this is just until the baby boomer generation passes.
Quote:
I didn't even realized that disability is paid out to infants (under 18). If you can get a doctor to sign a paper saying, "Yes she has dry eye, or yes she's cross eyed," then the parents can get $1200/month.

That's absolute nonsense. And children only qualify if their parents have paid into Social Security, at which point it is paid on a parent’s Social Security earnings record.
Quote:
I guess it only works if you have connections to the bureaucret writing the check though. I've seen Vietnam veterans who lost a leg during the war denied disability and told that his $200/month verterans pension was all they could give him. You want to ask again why I hate socialism?

That isn't socialism and your story isn't true. Disability payments range between $10 and $2,700 a month, depending on the severity of the disability. In extreme cases such as a loss of limb, they qualify for even higher payments. And for the record, our VA health care is the best health care system currently available in America. When hospitals are operating as businesses, profit is really the only thing that matters.
Quote:
I've seen people collecting social security for decades in Latin America because they worked illegally in the United states for as little as 6 months.

No you haven't. You've probably heard stories based in rumor, but the only possible way an illegal worker could benefit from Social Security is if the spouse is a US citizen and collecting benefits, which are shared through the household.
Quote:
That was the point of the post. The right's platform is to save social security. I'd like to see it abolished.

Why? It has been largely successful.
Quote:
Nor will they ever be again no matter how high you tax the current people going to work every day. You act like Social Security is still some sort of retirement fund. The government spent that money long ago on other things. They didn't save it.

You simply don't know what you're talking about. The government has in fact borrowed from the Social Security fund, and it has repaid that money back with interest.
Quote:
They paid it out to countless people who didn't pay in the form of disability. They paid people many times what they paid into it. Even with the people who died early and got nothing, nothing for their family, nothing, it's still bankrupt. You know that. Social security has become nothing more than a redistribution of wealth system.

I suggest you actually research this stuff instead of listening to the nonsense coming from the far Right. You substantiate nothing you say. There is no rational basis for criticizing Social Security. The reason the hyper capitalists hate it so much is because it has proven successful.
Quote:
I'd say that most people who work at any age do so because they have no choice. It's part of what it means to survive in this world.

At any age? No. People at all ages retire all the time and live off the money they earned prior to that time. My step father is a perfect example of someone who could have retired ten years ago if he wanted, but his company (Bell South) was bought out by AT&T and they screwed his retirement package and said he would have to work another ten years until he qualified for whatever golden parachute Bell South was willing to give him. Of course he is probably going to die within the next ten years (he is 70!) and he really does nothing at work except sit in on conference calls and listen to the younger engineers babble about whatever project they are working on (I've heard him in his office - he really does NOTHING of value for that company). But he keeps working mainly because he doesn't know of any other way to live. It is very much the same way some criminals become so dependent on the prison system that they willfully commit crimes after being released on parole, simply because that's the only way they know how to live. And that is quite an apt anaology too, which is sad. It is why quality of life in the USA is low compared to other developed countries. It is why those evil social democratic nations are much happier as a society.
Quote:
It is a virtue.

That's exactly what the corporations want you to believe. They want you to believe it is a good thing that you work yourself to death on their behalf, while they dish out scraps for you to barely survive. What's rthe point of living if you can't really live life? If the office has become your life during the day time and delivering pizzas is your life at night? Two weeks vacation per year is pathetic. No wonder we're such a stressed nation.
Quote:
I disagree. It's because corporations are free to find people who will work for less. They'll always be another immigrant willing to work for less or do whatever it takes to win your job in the workplace.

You can't blame this all on immigrants, though that is obviously where you began with this thinking. The two companies I work for have very few immigrants, in fact. But the corporations force workers to do more work for the same amount or even less money. It isn't a matter of immigration for them, they don't care where you are from. What they care about is a continuous increase in profit for their shareholders. Slashing labor costs is a universal method for increasing profit. But they cannot afford a decrease in production, so they just throw more responsibility at the workers without increasing their pay. In many instances they'll fire some people and throw their responsibilities onto other workers.
Quote:
Now this, I'll agree with. Kevin, couldn't you and I both agree that minimum wage, or even $10/hour is not enough money to live on in this country. What difference does raising the minimum wage to $7.25 make anyway? I'm all for getting rid of cheap labor, but I just don't see how the U.S. could ever pull that off in a global economy. I hate cheap labor. I think it's wrong like slavery is wrong.

But that is precisely what the Right wants. My step father says we should get rid of the minimum wage altogether. He watches FOX News at least twelve hours a week. You think $7.25 doesn't make a difference, but to those who were making $5.25, it makes a huge difference. Especially when they live in a socialized household - meaning, multiple members of the family working minimum wage jobs to make ends meet for the family. This is how many Mexican families in this country prosper. How is it that Mexicans can come here and work for so little, and then a few years later they are driving brand new Pick up trucks and running their own businesses? What does it say about American work ethic?
Quote:
Perhaps if the Democrats quit courting votes from the welfare class, they'd get more love from working people.

The Democrats are the party of the working class, period. The evidence for this is too overwhelming. They just happen to give a damn about those who are out of work, whereas the Republicans, the party of the rich, don't give a damn about anyone beneath them. It is because of Right Wing policies that the middle-class is falling into the lower classes.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:05 am 
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ajax18 wrote:

--cut un-Christlike ingnorant rant---


Social security is a social contract--a promise. We paid into it (forced actually).
The gov cannot fail to uphold its side or it loses trustworthiness which a government cannot afford to lose.

If SS ends then I should get back every penny I paid into it with interest!

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:43 am 
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Tarski wrote:
Social security is a social contract--a promise. We paid into it (forced actually).

Yup. It's a government mandate, just like Medicare and "ObamaCare." We have all been required to pay into and participate in a retirement fund and a medical insurance fund for many years now.

The upcoming Supreme Court ruling, which everyone expects will strike down government mandates as unconstitutional, obviously should also cover the vastly popular Social Security and Medicare mandates.

Surely they will be consistent, right?

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:00 am 
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Quote:
That's absolute nonsense. And children only qualify if their parents have paid into Social Security, at which point it is paid on a parent’s Social Security earnings record.


Than maybe if we can't agree on whether this actually happens or not, perhaps we can agree that it should not be happening?

Quote:
That isn't socialism and your story isn't true.


So you don't believe anything like this ever happened? Agreed that it's not socialism in a philosophers sense of the word. My point is that this is what socialism becomes because you have human beings with human biases distributing the money.

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And for the record, our VA health care is the best health care system currently available in America. When hospitals are operating as businesses, profit is really the only thing that matters.


Not when I worked there it wasn't. Those poor old vets waited all day for their appointments, and honestly the doctors didn't care because their check was fixed. Yes, money is all that matters when a hospital operates a business. But surviving is all that matters in this world to most people. Capitalism is a result of dog eat dog world we come from and are ultimately dependent upon. For those that have money, they sure don't go to the VA.

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No you haven't.


Then we agree that social security shouldn't be paid out to illegal immigrants indefinitely for working in the U.S. as little as six months?

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Why? It has been largely successful.


Successful for who? Not for me or my family it hasn't been and we're far from rich.

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You simply don't know what you're talking about. The government has in fact borrowed from the Social Security fund, and it has repaid that money back with interest.


So if the money is still there, why is it going bankrupt? I guess we just disagree on the facts again.

Quote:
What's rthe point of living if you can't really live life? If the office has become your life during the day time and delivering pizzas is your life at night? Two weeks vacation per year is pathetic. No wonder we're such a stressed nation.


I've asked myself the same question. But hasn't it always been that way? It was that way for the people I know who lived under the communism in the old USSR. And yes I did deliver pizzas by night trying to make ends meet when I taught in public schools.

Quote:
How is it that Mexicans can come here and work for so little, and then a few years later they are driving brand new Pick up trucks and running their own businesses? What does it say about American work ethic?


You seem to playing two sides of the coin. On the one hand you question why we have to work all the time, but on the other hand you criticize American workers for not being able to get ahead the way Latinos save and get ahead. Which lifestyle is it that you're advocating?

Quote:
You can't blame this all on immigrants


Agreed, it's not all just due to immigration. But you seem to be refusing to accept any blame on immigrants doing jobs that American welfare recipients should be forced to do.

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You think $7.25 doesn't make a difference, but to those who were making $5.25, it makes a huge difference.


I'd raise minimum wage to $15/hr. I don't care how much that raises food costs. People should be paid for their labor. But what difference does it make when the people working these jobs are often illegal anyway. If they are legal, they're often just being paid under the table.

Quote:
The Democrats are the party of the working class, period. The evidence for this is too overwhelming. They just happen to give a damn about those who are out of work,


You mean those that don't want to do the really hard jobs that don't pay well thus forcing us to get immigrants to do them. Is that your definition of, "out of work?"
And you say the Democrats give a damn because they're willing to take money from a man like myself who did in fact drive pizzas in the evening trying to make ends meet? I don't see where they're giving anything at all. They're just forcing me to give more and work more so that those that don't want to work don't have to work. I guess it's a good way to win votes given that most people would prefer not to work if they can find a way not to do so.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:02 pm 
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Just to add some clarification on the state of the Social Security system, for most of its history, Social Security has been receiving more in premiums than it has been paying in benefits. The positive cash flow is "the Social Security Trust Fund," which has been invested in federal government notes. (The federal government has borrowed from the Social Security Trust Fund because it generally hasn't been willing to have tax rates high enough to cover "defense" spending, but that's a different issue.)

A couple of years ago, Social Security has begun paying more in benefits than it has been collecting in taxes. This is caused by a couple of things. First, people are living a lot longer than they used to. Second, the baby boomer generation.

If nothing happens, the Social Security trust fund will run out of money in about 25 years. When that happens, by law every year's social security receipts will have to cover that year's expenses. To make this happen, everybody's check will go down by about 25% across the board. So, if somebody is getting a $1000 check, the check will be lowered to $750. That is the worst-case scenario.

You have to pay into the Social Security system for 10 years before you are eligible for benefits, btw.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Quote:
You have to pay into the Social Security system for 10 years before you are eligible for benefits, btw.


So how is disability funded for people who are disabled from childhood? I know the parents collect a disability check for a child who is declared disabled, even if the child is not legally old enough to work anyway. Of course when the child turns 18, he is eligible to collect that check directly without having it pass into his parents hands first.

Quote:
And children only qualify if their parents have paid into Social Security, at which point it is paid on a parent’s Social Security earnings record.


Does this detract from the amount of social security the parents receive at retirement. If it doesn't than what difference does it make fiscally? People are still receiving money they never paid into it. Even someone as simple minded as myself can understand that would lead to bankruptcy.

Analytics do you really believe that you will get back all your social security money with interest if the system is abolished? Do you even believe you'll get back what you paid into if the system continues?

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 3:34 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Ajax, the concept of Social Security came from Germany***. I know you might say that came from the old Germany before Hitler, but I fail to see how gas ovens would be a good retirement option.


Ok, you've got me there Moshka. That's disappointing to know to say the least. I'm just saying I'm always very impressed to see people who are old, infirm, and of ill health, but still out doing and giving everything they can. To me that's a virtue. For Kevin, they're just brainwashed by corporate America.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 5:18 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
I'm just saying I'm always very impressed to see people who are old, infirm, and of ill health, but still out doing and giving everything they can. To me that's a virtue. For Kevin, they're just brainwashed by corporate America.


However, if these senior workers hold onto their usually higher level jobs with no mandatory retirement, there will be little chance for advancement for younger worker. The idea that there is a generational conflict with the young paying for the old, seems more like a business ploy designed to let the business convert the SS employers contribution into golden shekels for stock holders and executive bonuses. The way of a functional society is for the elders to take care of the children and the grown children to take care of the elders. Let's have no more of that setting Grandma on an ice floe in the Great Salt Lake.

Keeping active and doing what one can is indeed a virtue and should be enjoyed before one becomes too aged, infirm or disabled to consistently perform activities.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 7:07 pm 
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Quote:
However, if these senior workers hold onto their usually higher level jobs with no mandatory retirement, there will be little chance for advancement for younger worker.


I see that point, but I'm not really talking about healthy older people who can still compete with younger workers. I'm talking about a man who isn't even really capable of running at the speed he once did and neither does he get paid what he once got paid, but he's still out giving what he has. The system seems to penalize what I see as a virtue. If this man makes too much money, he becomes unqualified for his social security that he would have a right to if he did no work at all.


Quote:
The way of a functional society is for the elders to take care of the children and the grown children to take care of the elders.


My idea of a functional society is when everyone gives everything they can and claims entitlement to nothing.

Quote:
Keeping active and doing what one can is indeed a virtue and should be enjoyed before one becomes too aged, infirm or disabled to consistently perform activities.


But it's more than just keeping active. I'm sure he'd like to be on a golf course. But he's not, because he believes in continuing to give what he can. I'm not saying he's happy to be giving to the federal government, but he is still giving to his family. Granted I'm tribal and don't fit your socialist ideal, but I plan to give to my family till my last mitochondria can put out ATP.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:10 am 
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ajax18 wrote:
My idea of a functional society is when everyone gives everything they can and claims entitlement to nothing.



You should set an example and immediately give up all entitlements including the idea that you are entitled to say such nonsense.
You should not feel entitled to anything from your children when you are 92. Nor should they feel entitled to any financial help with college or medical emergency help. Is you sick mother entitled to your financial help?

A few things you may to be too blind to notice:

Not everyone has a family.
Not everyone can even have children.
Not everyone is paid enough to help parents or children (many teachers for starters)
Not everyone's cognitive functions and physical strength allow them to be competitive in a job market. (For example, the 65 year old who bags my groceries is way way too slow). That guy worked hard as a high school football coach and health teacher for over 50 years and risked his life in military battle. But he is entitled only to the indignity of bagging groceries.
I am also reminded of the rich asshat who made a fortune of selling worthless jewelry to old people on the shopping channel who is also an affected connoisseur of Jazz music. There he is, retired, sitting in his den with a martini listening to one of the old Jazz masters who enriched our culture beyond measure but some of whom happen to still be living without healthcare on a fixed income in some dank run down apartment. You want them to not even get those social security pennies for bread. What an ass.

Finally, as Bill Gates was the first to admit, the difference between the kind of big success that allows people to spend time on the gold course and those who may have to sweat until they die is often a matter of luck. I would add that it is apparently also a matter of willingness to take advantage of other people and apply deceptive business practices.

The b***s*** world you apparently wish for is hopeless for hundreds of millions of hard working average people, people who have paid into a program in good faith.

Also, you never addressed my getting back my social security payments. Government promises must be honored and those who say otherwise in the name of some adolescent Randian ideology have no honor.

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 Post subject: Re: I want to save social security?
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:04 pm 
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ajax18 wrote:
Quote:
You have to pay into the Social Security system for 10 years before you are eligible for benefits, btw.


So how is disability funded for people who are disabled from childhood? I know the parents collect a disability check for a child who is declared disabled, even if the child is not legally old enough to work anyway. Of course when the child turns 18, he is eligible to collect that check directly without having it pass into his parents hands first.

You are misinformed about the situation of your acquantance; people who are disabled from childhood don't get Social Security disability payments.

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-Dr. Thomas Sowell
from an email exchange with Louis DeBroux:
http://kudzumollymormon.blogspot.com/20 ... rsary.html


Working Men of All Countries, Unite!
-Karl Marx


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