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 Post subject: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 12:00 pm 
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The endowment is a stone of stumbling for most Mormons. Before penalties and blood oaths and the preacher character were removed, it was a chilling and anti-Christian experience. Now that they're gone, the signs that still refer to ritual throat slitting and disembowelment are still there, but no one knows what they mean anymore, since the actual penalty words were removed. The cupped hands are supposed to represent the catching of entrails. The extended thumb signifies an edged weapon used to kill those who reveal the signs and tokens. Divorced of context, the temple has gone from a terrifying experience to one that is merely confusing.

Since we know for a fact that the masonic rituals upon which the endowment is based originated in the late medieval craft guilds, not with King Solomon, there is no need to continue to preserve masonic elements in the temple. Modern Mormons tend not to be Masons, so there is no longer any cultural connection that allows Mormons to feel comfortable with such rituals.

So how could the church make the endowment a more comfortable, edifying and less troubling experience for the members?

1) Drop the Adam and Eve stuff, and instead focus on Jesus and his mission

I remember being disappointed that the whole focus of the temple was Adam & Eve. I wanted it to be about Christ. Christ should be the center of the pinnacle of the Mormon worship experience, not a couple of naked yahoos in the jungle.

2) Drop the masonic signs, tokens, key words


They have no connection to ancient Judaism or ancient Christianity. They have no business in a church claiming to be a restoration of the latter.

3) Instead of covenanting to serve the church, covenant to serve God

I don't know about you, but when I first went through, and heard the following, my heart sank:

"that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints..."

I wanted to pledge myself to God, not to a church.

4) Cut it down to 45 minutes

The first half hour is fine. It gets awfully tedious after that, when it's your fifth, 10th or 50th time through.

5) Ditch the funny outfits

Every unendowed member has heard that strange, cultish things go on in the temple. These outfits do nothing to contradict that notion. They scared the bejesus out of me when I saw everyone wearing them:

Image

6) Let everyone know what they're in for before hand.

People have a right to know what to expect.

7) Drop the entrance fee

It doesn't matter that the money changers have moved off site. Requiring the paying of tithing for temple use is a slap in the face of Jesus



Feel free to post your own.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Naked initiatory's...oh...wait..they tried that...

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 11:19 am 
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One real thing they could do is let non-temple reccomend holders attend sealings

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2012 8:49 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:38 am 
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Put stationary bikes in there with hookups to generators. Have volunteers peddle to generate enough power to keep the lights on and thus reduce the entrance fee while keeping the children of God fit and trim.

Spandex would be the new outfit.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 7:16 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
The cupped hands are supposed to represent the catching of entrails. The extended thumb signifies an edged weapon used to kill those who reveal the signs and tokens.


CFR


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:45 am 
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RockSlider wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
The cupped hands are supposed to represent the catching of entrails. The extended thumb signifies an edged weapon used to kill those who reveal the signs and tokens.


CFR


http://home.teleport.com/~packham/temples.htm

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 8:54 am 
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The whole business of everyone in the audience slitting their own throats as a gesture of loyalty to the God of Mormonism is insane. It is not a practice that is acceptable to our evolving civilized world. The church had to dump them in order to catch up with civilization.

Mormons having their throats cut over keeping temple secrets is a sign of being a CULT. It is an evil and dark practice that the church can never hide. Eventually, every one on this planet will know about it. They can't hide it. History is always meant to be uncovered. The Mormon religion is doomed. People are learning more and more how dishonest Mormonism is as they attempt to hide their past without apology.

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:01 am 
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These men are about to slice their belly in a blood ritual that symbolizes their faithfulness in dying for LDS church loyalty. How horrible!

Stop this evil and dark practice. It's suicide!

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Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 9:59 am 
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Buffalo wrote:
The cupped hands are supposed to represent the catching of entrails. The extended thumb signifies an edged weapon used to kill those who reveal the signs and tokens.


I looked through your link and still did not see where the interpretation you gave here was mentioned.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:08 am 
Cut down on the repetition. Not everything needs to be said two or three times.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:16 am 
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RockSlider wrote:
Buffalo wrote:
The cupped hands are supposed to represent the catching of entrails. The extended thumb signifies an edged weapon used to kill those who reveal the signs and tokens.


I looked through your link and still did not see where the interpretation you gave here was mentioned.


Sorry.

http://home.teleport.com/~packham/mason-endow.htm

Quote:
Sign of First Token of Melchizedek Priesthood (pre-1930): The Sign is made by bringing both hands to the square, palms to the front.
After 1930s: extending right hand, palm down, thumb extended; left hand extended, hand in cupping shape.
Sign of Second Token of Melchizedek Priesthood: elevating both arms above the head to represent the crucifixion. The word "Pale" is spoken, the arms dropped to the square, "Hale," and then to the sides. "Hale"--thus--"Pale, Hale, Hale."
(Since 1990 the words are "O God, hear the words of my mouth!" repeated three times.)

Penalty of First Token of Melchizedek Priesthood: right thumb is placed over left hip, drawn quickly across the belly, hands drop to the side (done while reciting the penalty oath).

Wording of penalty (First Token of Melchizedek Priesthood): "Should we [reveal these secrets], we agree that our bodies be cut asunder in the midst and all our bowels gush out."


Packham also described it like that also in the recent Mormon Expression podcast on changes to the temple.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:17 am 
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Change the music and serve drinks! Play Mormon bingo.

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Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 3:46 pm 
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My son went through for the first time a couple weeks ago. He said it was weird, and when it was over he wanted to get the hell out of there. I told him it was too bad he missed out on the good times. Nothing screams "I am a child of god" like having a stranger touching your naked body or pretending to slit your own throat.

Buffalo wrote:
6) Let everyone know what they're in for before hand.

People have a right to know what to expect.

I always found it odd that one was given the opportunity to leave BEFORE finding out what you were getting in to.

Buffalo wrote:
7) Drop the entrance fee

It doesn't matter that the money changers have moved off site. Requiring the paying of tithing for temple use is a slap in the face of Jesus

I always told my children to beware of a religion that requires cash for blessings.

Oh, by the way, would it kill anyone to allow seating wherever they would like? You know, something way outside of the box like a husband and wife being able to sit next to each other? Sheeeesh.

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:40 pm 
God
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O God, I will have my f*****g throat sliced before I reveal the secret name!

O God, slice my guts open, I will never reveal the secret name!

O God, accept my sacrifice as I lay down my life and allow you to drink my blood and eat my body as a witness that I am ever in your service. O blood thirsty God of the bible! Hear me and drink my blood!

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Buffalo wrote:


Sure, knew all that, was wondering if there was something more to the actual sign which you knew. It sounds like you made the jump from the sign meaning the blade/catch the guts etc.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 11:39 pm 
CTR B
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Nude coed baptisms for the dead would probably keep the twenty something's males and females from bolting to inactive status, at least until they get to their late 30's and early 40's when logic makes them realize its all been one huge scam. What a great family home evening activity for the singles wards. You can check out each others bodies under the sure sign of the nail :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 6:43 am 
God
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I'd like to see the altars used as sex stools. I think it would be cool to lay against one of those altars and watch this on the screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g05ClgW45bQ&feature=related

Hell yeah -- shout some praises to jezzus while being banged.

:lol:

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:06 am 
God
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This is what I would do to make the temple experience better.

1. Everyone smokes a joint before the endowment begins.

2. In the creation movie eve shows her nakedness.

3. The movie is in 3D and the scenery changes. These movies are similiar to the Planet Earth DVD,s. Plus the seats move with the movie.

4. Instead of handshakes. Everyone is given 3 shots of tequila.

5. In the prayer circle the administrator reads a fortune cookie for the people in the prayer box. He then adds the words "in bed" for the people in the paryer circle.

6. To get through the vail you have to hit a 200 yard drive on a golf simulator.

7. BBQ steaks are served in the Celestial room.


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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:50 am 
God
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1. Give the first token of the Aaronic priesthood by pinching the nipples of the guy sitting next to you.

2. Give the second token of the Aaronic priesthood by unzipping the zipper of the guy sitting next to you.

3. Stand up and raise your arms in the air and repeat three times: "Ooh yeah, baby, it feels good"!

Paul O

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 Post subject: Re: How would you reform the LDS temple experience?
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:55 am 
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Rambo wrote:
7. BBQ steaks are served in the Celestial room.


And oral sex.

Paul O

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