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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:02 pm 
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DarkHelmet wrote:
If you didn't call them gay, what did you call them? Queer? Faggot?

I wouldn't have even thought that someone was gay. It would not have crossed my mind. Homosexuality simply was not a serious issue then. So I would not have called anyone but by their name. I guess I was naïve, but Romney's assertion that he wouldn't have thought of this young man as homosexual rings true for the time period.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:08 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
I'm old enough to know that we didn't normally even think of other people as gay in the early 70s. There may have been gays in my high school, but at the time it would never have crossed my mind that someone was gay.


I guess you didn't listen to Packer's talk or read the pamphlet. 1976.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:08 pm 
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KevinSim wrote:
DarkHelmet wrote:
It probably shouldn't bug me, because he was a kid, and we all did stupid things as a kid. This kind of thing shows a person's character, and I really hope he has changed.

Back in 1996 I tried very hard to like Bob Dole, but in the end I just couldn't bring myself to vote for him, so I decided to forgive Bill Clinton for his past sexual indiscretions and ended up voting for him.

I'd like personally to hear what Romney has to say about the John Lauber incident, but if it turns out it occurred as described, then I'm very disappointed in him. But to be consistent I really need to forgive him of such an act carried out as an 18-year-old just like I forgave Clinton.


Were you a TBM at the time? I remember during the Clinton years he was the anti-Christ to every TBM I knew. If Satan ran against Clinton in 92/96, I think most TBMs would have voted for Satan.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:10 pm 
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DarkHelmet wrote:

Were you a TBM at the time? I remember during the Clinton years he was the anti-Christ to every TBM I knew. If Satan ran against Clinton in 92/96, I think most TBMs would have voted for Satan.

I was not a church member of any kind at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:14 pm 
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beastie wrote:
BartBurk wrote:

I guess you didn't listen to Packer's talk or read the pamphlet. 1976.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml

The Romney incident supposedly occurred in 1965. I graduated from high school in 1972. I don't remember when gayness became an issue with Florida and Anita Bryant. Was it the late 70s?


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:16 pm 
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beastie wrote:
BartBurk wrote:
I'm old enough to know that we didn't normally even think of other people as gay in the early 70s. There may have been gays in my high school, but at the time it would never have crossed my mind that someone was gay.


I guess you didn't listen to Packer's talk or read the pamphlet. 1976.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/only.shtml


The Miracle of forgiveness was published in 1969:

Quote:
and in our modern language, masturbation, petting, fornication, adultery, homosexuality; and every sex perversion, every hidden and secret sin and all unholy and impure practices." (p. 25)


There are talks in general conference from the early 70s about the evils of homosexuality.

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"Religion is like a penis. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it; But please refrain from whipping it out in public and shoving it down people's throats." - Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:19 pm 
God

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Just because you are abstractly aware that homosexuality exists, that doesn't mean you think that anyone around you is gay. I find it entirely plausible that someone in the 70's might not think anyone in their social sphere was gay unless it was a guy that was a total swish.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:22 pm 
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EAllusion wrote:
Just because you are abstractly aware that homosexuality exists, that doesn't mean you think that anyone around you is gay. I find it entirely plausible that someone in the 70's might not think anyone in their social sphere was gay unless it was a guy that was a total swish.


It sounds like Lauber was a total swish.

Quote:
“He can’t look like that,” Romney told a close friend at the time. “That’s wrong. Just look at him!”

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:23 pm 
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DarkHelmet wrote:

There are talks in general conference from the early 70s about the evils of homosexuality.

I joined the church in the fall of 1972. I read the Kimball book, but that would not have caused me to think someone around me was gay.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:27 pm 
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DarkHelmet wrote:
It sounds like Lauber was a total swish.

Quote:
“He can’t look like that,” Romney told a close friend at the time. “That’s wrong. Just look at him!”


He was supposedly talking about his bleached hair, not gayness. In 1965 even having long hair was considered wrong in some circles, but it would not have caused someone to have been labeled as gay. I don't remember any guy having bleached hair unless the sun did it which would have been possible after a Florida vacation. If there was a problem it would have been his long hair, not gayness.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:35 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
If there was a problem it would have been his long hair, not gayness.


True. It sounds more like a case of effemiphobia.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:43 pm 
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just me wrote:
BartBurk wrote:

True. It sounds more like a case of effemiphobia.


Long hair was not considered feminine as much as a form of sloppiness. I can imagine this would have been a sign of low class behavior in a prep school in 1965.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Let's hope Mitt has done a flip flop since then on this bullying behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:52 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
just me wrote:


Long hair was not considered feminine as much as a form of sloppiness. I can imagine this would have been a sign of low class behavior in a prep school in 1965.


So, it seems it was about conformity. That certainly fits with being Mormon. Very hard for Mormons to tolerate non-conformity. He'd probably heard a lesson at church about the evils of being a beatnik.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Quote:
The Post also detailed incidents in which Romney said “Atta girl,” in class to a closeted gay student, and deliberately held a door closed while an sight-impaired teacher walked into it.


The second instance here of helping injure the blind is not a normally part of LDS behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:02 pm 
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just me wrote:

So, it seems it was about conformity. That certainly fits with being Mormon. Very hard for Mormons to tolerate non-conformity. He'd probably heard a lesson at church about the evils of being a beatnik.

Bingo. That was the issue in 1965 and most of the 60s. There were coaches banning long hair in my area into the early 70s. I don't buy the story the WP is peddling inferring that gayness was the issue. It does not fit in 1965.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:29 pm 
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moksha wrote:
Let's hope Mitt has done a flip flop since then on this bullying behavior.


We'll see. I can't wait for the debates. Every time Obama speaks Mitt will be tempted to yell "Atta girl!"

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:34 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
just me wrote:

So, it seems it was about conformity. That certainly fits with being Mormon. Very hard for Mormons to tolerate non-conformity. He'd probably heard a lesson at church about the evils of being a beatnik.

Bingo. That was the issue in 1965 and most of the 60s. There were coaches banning long hair in my area into the early 70s. I don't buy the story the WP is peddling inferring that gayness was the issue. It does not fit in 1965.


The point is bullying in general. People are latching onto it as gay bashing, but he is also accused of causing a blind teacher to walk into a door as one of his pranks. When I read the story, I saw a pattern of bullying against people who were different - long haired kid, blind teacher, yelling "Atta girl" at the effiminate kid. He just comes off as one of those douchebags we all knew in school. It certainly doesn't help his image with the voting public, even though I'm sure he has matured over the last 50 years. I just wish he had made a more sincere apology.

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"Religion is like a penis. Its fine to have one, its fine to be proud of it; But please refrain from whipping it out in public and shoving it down people's throats." - Anonymous


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 6:44 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
just me wrote:

So, it seems it was about conformity. That certainly fits with being Mormon. Very hard for Mormons to tolerate non-conformity. He'd probably heard a lesson at church about the evils of being a beatnik.

Bingo. That was the issue in 1965 and most of the 60s. There were coaches banning long hair in my area into the early 70s. I don't buy the story the WP is peddling inferring that gayness was the issue. It does not fit in 1965.


DarkHelmet wrote:
The point is bullying in general. People are latching onto it as gay bashing, but he is also accused of causing a blind teacher to walk into a door as one of his pranks. When I read the story, I saw a pattern of bullying against people who were different - long haired kid, blind teacher, yelling "Atta girl" at the effiminate kid. He just comes off as one of those douchebags we all knew in school. It certainly doesn't help his image with the voting public, even though I'm sure he has matured over the last 50 years. I just wish he had made a more sincere apology.



Listen, Mitt has nothing against the queers. He has always been accepting and willing to feel bad for them. Likewise, a prank on a blind aka r******* person is all in good fun. He meant nothing by it. Boys will be boys. It is not his fault these folks are like this. They chose to be this way. I expect an apology.


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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:38 pm 
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Rambo wrote:
I'm pretty sure he has changed since then. There is a guy in my parents stake that is good friends with Mitt. They were mission companions with each other and have kept in contact ever since. From his perspective he thinks Mitt is a real nice guy.

I knew someone else that was related to him. She had nothing but good things to say about him as well.

Anybody else here know him personally or through friends?


I have a friend connection. Their verdict? "Cold, calculating, arrogant and self righteous."

Really his treatment of his dog says it all.

Well, then there's the utter shame of Bain.

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 Post subject: Re: The Romney bullying story really bugs me
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:39 pm 
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BartBurk wrote:
just me wrote:

So, it seems it was about conformity. That certainly fits with being Mormon. Very hard for Mormons to tolerate non-conformity. He'd probably heard a lesson at church about the evils of being a beatnik.

Bingo. That was the issue in 1965 and most of the 60s. There were coaches banning long hair in my area into the early 70s. I don't buy the story the WP is peddling inferring that gayness was the issue. It does not fit in 1965.


right. no homophobia in 1965.

It fits perfectly.

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