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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Sun May 06, 2012 9:24 pm 
God

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subgenius wrote:
So, now that we have established that MTC teachers are among the "staff related" we can forgo the formality of you actually conceding this point, surely you must be tired from having to do it so often.


Sorry subgenius, but once again you are erroneous.
MTC teachers who receive a salary do so under the CES banner, which is a separate cost line. As you have had pointed out already that travel costs etc are also paid under a separate cost heading....

Over to you for more wild guesses as to who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 am 
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Drifting wrote:
subgenius wrote:
So, now that we have established that MTC teachers are among the "staff related" we can forgo the formality of you actually conceding this point, surely you must be tired from having to do it so often.


Sorry subgenius, but once again you are erroneous.
MTC teachers who receive a salary do so under the CES banner, which is a separate cost line. As you have had pointed out already that travel costs etc are also paid under a separate cost heading....

Over to you for more wild guesses as to who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....


Oh schnap!

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:41 am 
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Drifting wrote:
Sorry subgenius, but once again you are erroneous.
MTC teachers who receive a salary do so under the CES banner, which is a separate cost line. As you have had pointed out already that travel costs etc are also paid under a separate cost heading....

Over to you for more wild guesses as to who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....

citation, please - or once again concede that you are making most of this stuff up

(note: you have yet to provide the original reference,as requested, for the OP, and thus are still operating under the "so you say" mode - in my opinion you are making claims without any support....is not the burden upon you?)

...and by the way...the CES "banner" is distinct from the monies mentioned in the OP how? (citation please)

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Last edited by subgenius on Tue May 08, 2012 6:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:43 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Sorry subgenius, but once again you are erroneous.
MTC teachers who receive a salary do so under the CES banner, which is a separate cost line. As you have had pointed out already that travel costs etc are also paid under a separate cost heading....

Over to you for more wild guesses as to who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....

citation, please - or once again concede that you are making most of this stuff up

(note: you have yet to provide the original reference,as requested, for the OP, and thus are still operating under the "so you say" mode - in my opinion you are making claims without any support....is not the burden upon you?)


I provided you with the link.
If you are too lazy to sign yourself up to be able to access official UK company accounts, including the Churches, well that's on you not me.

In the mean time...

who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....?

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:49 am 
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Drifting wrote:
I provided you with the link.
If you are too lazy to sign yourself up to be able to access official UK company accounts, including the Churches, well that's on you not me.

In the mean time...

who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....?

there is no link to "sign up" for service, nor is there an actual link to the information that you allege exists...so, given your bias and position, it is likely you are being deceitful about your data.
Additionally, you have provided no link for the justufucation that all MTC employees are paid under the CES "banner" and that this "banner" is distinct from the monies described in the OP.

Again, you made the claim, the burden is on you (it is not my burden to find your proof for you - as we say "put up or shut up") - otherwise you are conceding that your position is unjustified and likely just another of your fantasises.

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I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:55 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
I provided you with the link.
If you are too lazy to sign yourself up to be able to access official UK company accounts, including the Churches, well that's on you not me.

In the mean time...

who gets paid a salary under 'missionary work' other than Mission Presidents....?

there is no link to "sign up" for service, nor is there an actual link to the information that you allege exists...so, given your bias and position, it is likely you are being deceitful about your data.
Additionally, you have provided no link for the justufucation that all MTC employees are paid under the CES "banner" and that this "banner" is distinct from the monies described in the OP.

Again, you made the claim, the burden is on you (it is not my burden to find your proof for you - as we say "put up or shut up") - otherwise you are conceding that your position is unjustified and likely just another of your fantasises.


I have provided you with proof - the data from actual published accounts.
I know you don't want it to be real, but hey, such is life.

Go to 'Companies House Direct' get yourself an account, look up the Church and download the latest set of accounts. I've put up, now your turn...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 6:59 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
it is likely you are being deceitful about your data.


Find me some evidence from my posts (any of my posts) that show me as deceitful?
If you can't, well then I expect an apology...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:19 am 
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Drifting wrote:
I have provided you with proof - the data from actual published accounts.

actually, you have not provided any proof. You saying it is so, is not the same as "providing proof".

Quote:
Go to 'Companies House Direct' get yourself an account, look up the Church and download the latest set of accounts. I've put up, now your turn...

again, the burden is not mine...why not just post your password?

and yes, i accept your concession that CES funds are not distinct from your OP...and that MTC employees (teachers, etc.), staff who produce the pass-along cards, staff producing the Book of Mormon for the missionaries to pass out, staff associated with supplemental financial support, the staff associated with limited health care provided, care lease staff, etc. are included in the
"£0.5 million for staff related to 'missionary work'"

i assume that when you write 'missionary work' you are paraphrasing....but of course, as with all your reported "facts" we just have to "assume" they are actual facts, because your unwillingness to actual provide "proof" is acceptable to that end....correct?

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:23 am 
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Drifting wrote:
I have provided you with proof - the data from actual published accounts.
I know you don't want it to be real, but hey, such is life.

Go to 'Companies House Direct' get yourself an account, look up the Church and download the latest set of accounts. I've put up, now your turn...

maybe you should take Themis's advice, as offered HERE
on the Jonah Whale thread

Themis wrote:
You do have a problem in this area, and many have told you. Try learning how to use the quote feature, and especially how to link other sites if you want reference a site. Once you learn how to link a site it would also be good to make sure you link to the specific parts of a site you think supports what you are saying.
(emphasis mine)

:biggrin:

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 10:48 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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Nice try subby,

A third of all the tithing you donate goes to someone's salary.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:02 am 
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Subgenius seems to think his unwillingness to read linked references means they're not there. Adorable.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:09 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
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Here you go subby, verbatim from the year ending 31/12/2010 accounts for company number 00699764 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Donations £28,548 (excludes 'restricted' funds)

Staff costs:
Provision of worship facilities 4,253,000
Religious education 3,220,000
Missionary work 510,000
Genealogy work 3,410,000
Community projects 235,000

-------------------

So total tithing spent on staff costs (excluding travel etc) £11,628,000.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Buffalo wrote:
Subgenius seems to think his unwillingness to read linked references means they're not there. Adorable.


Poor Buffalo thinks that linking to "Google" is the same as providing a reference.....duly noted for future use.

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:55 pm 
God
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Drifting wrote:
Here you go subby, verbatim from the year ending 31/12/2010 accounts for company number 00699764 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Donations £28,548 (excludes 'restricted' funds)

Staff costs:
Provision of worship facilities 4,253,000
Religious education 3,220,000
Missionary work 510,000
Genealogy work 3,410,000
Community projects 235,000

-------------------

So total tithing spent on staff costs (excluding travel etc) £11,628,000.

Again, got a working reference and/or link or should we just take your word for it?

Also, note that "staff costs" does not necessarily equate to "salary". For example, it may include salary, benefits, taxes, car allowances, housing allowances and premiums paid.(exclusive of administration costs)
Here is a link for my references http://lmgtfy.com/?q=staff+costs

( i would like to thank Themis for new signature line)

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 11:33 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Here you go subby, verbatim from the year ending 31/12/2010 accounts for company number 00699764 The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

Donations £28,548 (excludes 'restricted' funds)

Staff costs:
Provision of worship facilities 4,253,000
Religious education 3,220,000
Missionary work 510,000
Genealogy work 3,410,000
Community projects 235,000

-------------------

So total tithing spent on staff costs (excluding travel etc) £11,628,000.

Again, got a working reference and/or link or should we just take your word for it?

Also, note that "staff costs" does not necessarily equate to "salary". For example, it may include salary, benefits, taxes, car allowances, housing allowances and premiums paid.(exclusive of administration costs)
Here is a link for my references http://lmgtfy.com/?q=staff+costs

( i would like to thank Themis for new signature line)


Rather than take my word for it, compare it to the financial information published by the Church...oh...wait....

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Rather than take my word for it, compare it to the financial information published by the Church...oh...wait....

long way around the barn for you to admit you are wrong.
but at least you have confirmed, by example, that not providing evidence for your claims calls them into suspicion.

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Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


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 Post subject: Re: How the Church spends tithing...
PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:06 am 
God

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subgenius wrote:
Drifting wrote:
Rather than take my word for it, compare it to the financial information published by the Church...oh...wait....

long way around the barn for you to admit you are wrong.
but at least you have confirmed, by example, that not providing evidence for your claims calls them into suspicion.


I have provided evidence.
I have pointed you in the direction of obtaining the evidence yourself.
Anyone can go to Companies House and obtain the financial records of the Church in the UK and in so doing, verify that the numbers I quote are absolutely factually correct.
If you are too lazy to do so that is hardly my fault.

Although I suspect you are following the example of an ostrich in the vicinity of sand when trouble approaches....

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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