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 Post subject: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:06 am 
Valiant A
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Lately, I've been reading some of the essays of the 19th century German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer. This quote about the indoctrination of children strongly resonated with me.

Quote:
If, in early childhood, certain fundamental views and doctrines are paraded with unusual solemnity, and an air of the greatest earnestness never before visible in anything else; if, at the same time, the possibility of a doubt about them be completely passed over, or touched upon only to indicate that doubt is the first step to eternal perdition, the resulting impression will be so deep that, as a rule, that is, in almost every case, doubt about them will be almost as impossible as doubt about one's own existence. Hardly one in ten thousand will have the strength of mind to ask himself seriously and earnestly--is that true?

Religion: A Dialogue, an essay by Arthur Schopenhauer. http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/22570/

He expressed similar sentiments in another essay entitled Studies in Pessimism:
Quote:
There is no absurdity so palpable but that it may be firmly planted in the human head if you only begin to inculcate it before the age of five, by constantly repeating it with an air of great solemnity. For as in the case of animals, so in that of men, training is successful only when you begin in early youth.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/pessimism/chapter5.html


Schopenhauer clearly describes my upbringing. How I managed to escape from the indoctrination of my youth is still a mystery to me.

http://www.theofrak.com/2012/04/get-them-while-theyre-young.html

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:10 am 
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So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:40 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:51 am 
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bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.


The absurdity of not believing that God was so interested in one man's libido that he sent and angel with a flaming sword to make sure his needs were met?

The absurdity of not believing that the ancestors of native Americans where Christian Hebrews, when all evidence points to them being Siberians with no belief in anything related to the Bible?

The absurdity of not believing that the afterlife can best be described in feudalistic terms?

The absurdity of not believing that Masonic handshakes are so important that not learning them will keep you out of God's presence?

The absurdity of not believing that Abraham's writings are contained in Egyptian papyrus that, when translated accurately, contain no reference anything in the Book of Abraham?

The absurdity of not believing that the application of cooking oil and magic incantations can heal the sick?

Not believing in such things takes no indoctrination at all. The default state is unbelief. It takes considerable indoctrination over the course of decades to induce most Mormons to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:08 am 
bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.


Yes. As soon as my children are 18 months old I will starting showing them pictures of Joesph Smith and telling them 'this man was a false prophet.' Then when they are a little older I will have them get up in front of large groups of people and have them testify 'I know the church is not true. I know the Book of Abraham papyrus is an ordinary Funeral document. I know Joseph Smith practiced polyandry.'
Even if they choose to reject my teachings I will force them to endure at least 3 hours of it every week until they turn 18. Also if they reject my teachings it will strain and perhaps destroy our relationship completely.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:41 am 
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Stormy Waters wrote:
bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.


Yes. As soon as my children are 18 months old I will starting showing them pictures of Joesph Smith and telling them 'this man was a false prophet.' Then when they are a little older I will have them get up in front of large groups of people and have them testify 'I know the church is not true. I know the Book of Abraham papyrus is an ordinary Funeral document. I know Joseph Smith practiced polyandry.'
Even if they choose to reject my teachings I will force them to endure at least 3 hours of it every week until they turn 18. Also if they reject my teachings it will strain and perhaps destroy our relationship completely.

That would be the Mormon methodology for raising kids--but I think they'd want the focus to be 180 degrees differently.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:57 am 
God
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bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.

Yes, along with the absurdity of a 4+ billion year old (round...not flat) planet, evolution, humans who lived before a "garden of Eden" and other nonsense.

Bcspace, when you type the word "anti-Mormon" you could as easily type the word "science". Both words are synonomous in this case.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:48 am 
God
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My son is making his own decision about this kind of thing. I am a theist/deist, my husband is an atheist. At the moment my son is atheist with an absolute love of all things scientific. It's his choice. I support him in it. If he had decided that he believed in God/Jesus, as I did when I was 14, then I would support him in it.
My parents did that for me.

By the way BC, I have it on good authority that one of my active LDS friends thinks that I, I assume as an apostate, is a danger to his/her children. That is breathtakingly strange don't you think. I am more than happy for my friend to talk to my son about the church, and give opinions and even bear testimony. It's then my son's choice to investigate further if he wants to.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:00 pm 
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Mary wrote:
My son is making his own decision about this kind of thing. I am a theist/deist, my husband is an atheist. At the moment my son is atheist with an absolute love of all things scientific. It's his choice. I support him in it. If he had decided that he believed in God/Jesus, as I did when I was 14, then I would support him in it.
My parents did that for me.

By the way BC, I have it on good authority that one of my active LDS friends thinks that I, I assume as an apostate, is a danger to his/her children. That is breathtakingly strange don't you think. I am more than happy for my friend to talk to my son about the church, and give opinions and even bear testimony. It's then my son's choice to investigate further if he wants to.

Individuality is an anathema to organized religion.

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In a cold month in that room
we found a reason for the things we had to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:02 pm 
God
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Panopticon wrote:
Lately, I've been reading some of the essays of the 19th century German philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer. This quote about the indoctrination of children strongly resonated with me.

Quote:
If, in early childhood, certain fundamental views and doctrines are paraded with unusual solemnity, and an air of the greatest earnestness never before visible in anything else; if, at the same time, the possibility of a doubt about them be completely passed over, or touched upon only to indicate that doubt is the first step to eternal perdition, the resulting impression will be so deep that, as a rule, that is, in almost every case, doubt about them will be almost as impossible as doubt about one's own existence. Hardly one in ten thousand will have the strength of mind to ask himself seriously and earnestly--is that true?

Religion: A Dialogue, an essay by Arthur Schopenhauer. http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/22570/

He expressed similar sentiments in another essay entitled Studies in Pessimism:
Quote:
There is no absurdity so palpable but that it may be firmly planted in the human head if you only begin to inculcate it before the age of five, by constantly repeating it with an air of great solemnity. For as in the case of animals, so in that of men, training is successful only when you begin in early youth.
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/s/schopenhauer/arthur/pessimism/chapter5.html

Schopenhauer clearly describes my upbringing. How I managed to escape from the indoctrination of my youth is still a mystery to me.

Doesn't describe my upbringing, or the upbringing of my children. I have, by my own choice, been exposed to literature produced by the critics of the LDS Church a large majority of my 52 years, and nobody ever told me that doubt was "the first step to eternal perdition."

Furthermore, when my son spent some time with a female acquaintance in his martial arts class, whose parents began feeding him criticism after criticism of the LDS Church, I didn't say a word to him about doubt being that first step. He requested I tell him all the criticisms of the Church that I was aware of, and I did, along with my reactions to those criticisms. He indicated that he was satisfied with my explanations.

My daughters are a different matter; they both went through periods of inactivity, though not due to any criticism they'd heard of the LDS Church; rather they both just seemed to be going through rebellious phases. Both daughters are currently showing indications they may choose to come back to activity in the future.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:04 pm 
God
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Quote:
By the way BC, I have it on good authority that one of my active LDS friends thinks that I, I assume as an apostate, is a danger to his/her children. That is breathtakingly strange don't you think. I am more than happy for my friend to talk to my son about the church, and give opinions and even bear testimony. It's then my son's choice to investigate further if he wants to.


Not strange. Apostasy leads away from salvation and the truths of eternal life.

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Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
A lesson on 'Faggotry' for Kevin Graham; a legitimately descriptive and even positive term used by homosexuals themselves.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:10 pm 
God
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bcspace wrote:
Quote:
By the way BC, I have it on good authority that one of my active LDS friends thinks that I, I assume as an apostate, is a danger to his/her children. That is breathtakingly strange don't you think. I am more than happy for my friend to talk to my son about the church, and give opinions and even bear testimony. It's then my son's choice to investigate further if he wants to.


Not strange. Apostasy leads away from salvation and the truths of eternal life.


If you're trying to dissuade people from thinking the church is a dangerous cult, you're doing a terrible job.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:23 pm 
God
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For goodness sake bc, what truths?

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:30 pm 
If you're having trouble indoctrinating your kids, there is help:

http://www.troubledLDSteen.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:22 pm 
God
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Stormy Waters wrote:
bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.


Yes. As soon as my children are 18 months old I will starting showing them pictures of Joesph Smith and telling them 'this man was a false prophet.' Then when they are a little older I will have them get up in front of large groups of people and have them testify 'I know the church is not true. I know the Book of Abraham papyrus is an ordinary Funeral document. I know Joseph Smith practiced polyandry.'
Even if they choose to reject my teachings I will force them to endure at least 3 hours of it every week until they turn 18. Also if they reject my teachings it will strain and perhaps destroy our relationship completely.


Absolutely revolting, and yet I can provide hundreds - literally - hundreds and hundreds - of this exact story through Ex-Mormons. I've got too many to count on the Mormon Curtain to start. More can be found on RFM and throughout recovery circles.

Mormonism is truly sickening.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:26 pm 
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When I first saw this thread's title, I thought this was going to be one of those fun, "Breed 'em Young University" humor threads.

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In a cold month in that room
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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 1:57 pm 
God
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I was just thinking of this topic.

I saw a street preaher the other day saying that if people didn't repent they would go to hell. I kind of felt like going up and talking to the guy. See if I could get him to question what he was saying. I was with a friend so I decided not to.

I mentioned to my friend that I was once like him. Now I see how crazy you seem to everyone else. I mentioned that the poor guy was stuck in religion. My friend said the reason why he is preaching like that is because it is his personality. My friends seems to think that people that are religious want to be religious because it is part of there personality. I think this may be true for some but it was not the case with me. To be honest I really did not like to much about church but I felt like I was stuck in it. If I didn't go then I would not make it to the CK. Me being religious was not becaue of my personality it was because of being stuck in religion. I think my personality drove me to follow that religion as much as I could.

These quotes really relate to me. My parents and church members really indoctrinated me while I was young and it sure lasted a long time.


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:02 pm 
God
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KevinSim wrote:
Doesn't describe my upbringing, or the upbringing of my children. I have, by my own choice, been exposed to literature produced by the critics of the LDS Church a large majority of my 52 years, and nobody ever told me that doubt was "the first step to eternal perdition."


You know your not suppose to look at those anti mormon material right? If your not teaching your childern not to look at it then you are not following church council.

Quote:
He indicated that he was satisfied with my explanations.

Did you guys watch the BofA video together and how did you explain that? I dare you to show him that video.

Quote:
Both daughters are currently showing indications they may choose to come back to activity in the future.


Have you shown your daughters what the critics have to say about mormonism?


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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:49 pm 
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Rambo wrote:
You know your not suppose to look at those anti mormon material right? If your not teaching your childern not to look at it then you are not following church council.

Telling my children not to look at anti-Mormon material has struck me as being so foreign to what I'm all about, that I've never brought myself to tell them stuff like that. I'm just not the type of guy that would tell his children something like that. If that's "not following church council," then go ahead and brand me a maverick.

Rambo wrote:
Did you guys watch the BofA video together and how did you explain that? I dare you to show him that video.

You can dare me all you want, for all the good it'll do you. My son asked me to explain the controversy, not illustrate it. If my son mentions the video you're talking about and wants me to watch it with him, that would be a different matter, but right now I have no plans to actually get my hands on any actual critical literature, either in video or written form.

Rambo wrote:
Have you shown your daughters what the critics have to say about mormonism?

No. My daughters have never asked me to explain the controversies like my son has.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:33 am 
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bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.

I was going to show my kids The God Makers film but the funniest thing has happened. They just don't give a s*** about religion.

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 Post subject: Re: Get them while they are young
PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:37 am 
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zeezrom wrote:
bcspace wrote:
So the absurdity of anti-Mormonism can be indoctrinated at a very young age? Old news.

I was going to show my kids The God Makers film but the funniest thing has happened. They just don't give a s*** about religion.


Indeed. You have to shove religion down kids' throats constantly for it to take hold. The default state is apatheism about Mormonism and every other religion.

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Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


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