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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:22 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
"Ye are gods, and all of you are the children of the Most High." Psalms 82:6


I'm not interested in what the scriptures say, I'm interested in what you think.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:30 am 
God

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I believe in what the prophets and scriptures teach, and that is one of those teachings.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:33 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I believe in what the prophets and scriptures teach, and that is one of those teachings.


You see I don't think you do.
The Prophets taught that black people will only be servants in heaven - do you believe that?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 am 
God

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No, I don't believe that they will ONLY be servants any more than I believe that the prophet Nathan was correct when he told king David to build the temple. I refer you to my original post here entitled "Prophets and Apostles not Perfect." Once the prophets Brigham Young stated something like this: Brigham Young spoke to you this morning, but the Lord will speak to you this afternoon.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:52 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
No, I don't believe that they will ONLY be servants any more than I believe that the prophet Nathan was correct when he told king David to build the temple. I refer you to my original post here entitled "Prophets and Apostles not Perfect." Once the prophets Brigham Young stated something like this: Brigham Young spoke to you this morning, but the Lord will speak to you this afternoon.


So, in reality, you believe what Prophets preach and teach only as far as they are consistent with your own views, opinions and beliefs. That's the point I'm making. Your testimony is a belief in yourself not in the Church.

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:58 am 
God

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Not really, as far as many things are concerned, one needs to weigh the positive against the negative, and after doing this for many years, I find, in my opinion, that the church is what is claims to be, the restored church of Jesus Christ.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:01 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Not really, as far as many things are concerned, one needs to weigh the positive against the negative, and after doing this for many years, I find, in my opinion, that the church is what is claims to be, the restored church of Jesus Christ.



gd, do you believe everything the Prophets of the Church have taught?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:06 am 
God

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No, you should read my post about that.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:07 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
No, you should read my post about that.


And who determines what teachings from the Prophets that you believe?

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:09 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
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Ultimately, I do.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:10 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
Ultimately, I do.


Exactly.
You don't follow the Prophet, you follow you.

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:15 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
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No, generally I follow the prophet. The only exception might be in the unexpected unlikelihood of the prophet asking, for example, for all the saints to kill themselves, or something else absurd.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:40 am 
God

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gdemetz wrote:
No, generally I follow the prophet. The only exception might be in the unexpected unlikelihood of the prophet asking, for example, for all the saints to kill themselves, or something else absurd.


And who would determine something absurd?
That's right...you would...

You only follow the Prophet in as much as he agrees with you.

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:41 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I gave the wrong reference earlier. The reference I meant to give was D&C 76:24 which states that the inhabitants of all the worlds are begotten sons and daughters of God. Actually, it was done the same way that we are able to become like God. Remember the teaching: "As man is, God once was, and as God is, man may become." He was once a mortal as we are, and He and His wives became exalted beings through their faithfulness in keeping the commandments which they were given by their Heavenly Father.
Quote:
D&C 76:24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.
Ok, this is why you are mistaken. You need to understand that 'unto' is an obsolete term meaning usually 'to' and not 'by'. These begotten sons and daughters (by celestial parents who are not god) are given 'to' God and placed on worlds. Now, I do realize this is ambiguous and could mean 'by', but you are basing your false doctrine on apparently one word in the D&C and a number of the brethren (and members) who also got it wrong. I understand where you got it from, but I'm telling you it is patently absurd if you sit down and think about it for 2 seconds.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:23 am 
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Drifting wrote:

You see I don't think you do.
The Prophets taught that black people will only be servants in heaven - do you believe that?

this is so disingenuous...even for you.
First, it is abundantly clear that this is not what the Church, prophets, or Scriptures teach.
Second, though the curse of Ham is not exclusive to the mormon church, it must be recognized that you are way off the reasonable base here.
Your logic is absurd, as usual.

One can easily state that they believe in America and its leaders...
But it was also "taught" by American presidents, senators, and school teachers that blacks were inferior and should not be allowed to use the same drinking fountain as others....and that Irish and Chinese were going to ruin our way of life....
This does not mean that one "believes" that today.

For as you are so blissfully unaware of what is taught by the Church:
President Gordon B. Hinckley :
"Now I am told that racial slurs and denigrating remarks are sometimes heard among us. I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ. Nor can he consider himself to be in harmony with the teachings of the Church of Christ...Throughout my service as a member of the First Presidency, I have recognized and spoken a number of times on the diversity we see in our society. It is all about us, and we must make an effort to accommodate that diversity. Let us all recognize that each of us is a son or daughter of our Father in Heaven, who loves all of His children. Brethren, there is no basis for racial hatred among the priesthood of this Church. If any within the sound of my voice is inclined to indulge in this, then let him go before the Lord and ask for forgiveness and be no more involved in such."

No person will be judged by the fallible ideas or policies of men; "the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel, and he employeth no servant there
(2 Nephi 9:41).

I honestly believe you ignore the Church today because you prefer the Church of 1950 or 1900 - which if you lived in that era your opinions would be vastly different than what they are today.....but still likely inadequate.

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Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:26 am 
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Drifting wrote:
And who would determine something absurd?
That's right...you would...

You only follow the Prophet in as much as he agrees with you.

Once again, we see the cursory and rather inadequate understanding of faith, religion, and the teachings of the Prophet.
The teachings of the Prophet are not followed blindly my dear friend...they are confirmed by the Spirit, not by one's self.
I realize that people such as yourself can not fathom anything beyond the self, so this point is likely lost on you.

However, it is only fair to note that, once again, you are wrong about what you speak.

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Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:51 am 
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subgenius wrote:
The teachings of the Prophet are not followed blindly my dear friend...they are confirmed by the Spirit, not by one's self.


:lol:

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:33 am 
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subgenius wrote:
BUMP to Drifting, because no response had been given to specific request therein
viewtopic.php?p=577319#p577319


BUMP to Drifting

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Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:37 am 
God

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No need to bump.
I answered you earlier in the thread like this:

Drifting wrote:
subgenius wrote:
I assume you consider modern day artificial insemination to be "cheating" if the sperm donor was a married man, married to a woman other than the recipient?....or does the idea that since mankind has been able to conceive children without "having sex" exclude that ability from God?


No, I accept that artificial insemination is a method available to God. Of course that also means that, at some point that God masturbated...

(you didn't really think your position through did you?)

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“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:52 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
No need to bump.
I answered you earlier in the thread like this: <[misattribution deleted]>
paraphrased by me

and we see that you have actually not responded...as usual

BUMP

"if you actually have a solid reference that details the "method" of mary's conception"
http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/vie ... 19#p577319

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Stated simply and crassly, by law, preservation of life is foremost. Rational, reasonable, logical and emotional plays no part. I simply did my part. - bcuzbcuz

"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard_Feynman


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 Post subject: Re: Heavenly Mother
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:58 pm 
God

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Good point Subgenious! Why Sub? Yes, we are not left alone to depend solely upon our own judgment, we also have the Spirit and the light of Christ to help us. So, if the prophet told us all to kill ourselves, unlike many of the followers of James Jones, we should be able to tell that something was wrong, especially with those helps.


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