It is currently Thu Nov 20, 2014 7:16 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:49 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz...

Quote:
The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.


'Mormon's aren't Christian' says the Prophet, Wow...who knew...

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:56 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
You are misquoting him. He perhaps said the "traditional Christ," or as I mentioned the 3 in 1 version.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:42 am 
tired, less active investigator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:07 am
Posts: 7282
Location: Hungary
gdemetz wrote:
Google "scientific evidence for a global flood"!


About 144,000 results (0.21 seconds)

Ehm...

The bible tells us that in the last days there will be a group of 144 thousand men chosen from the twelve tribes of Israel (Rev 7:4).

The bible tells us many thing. Some of them sound great and say nothing. Some of them are simple human stupidity. Take Your pick for every verse!

_________________
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:50 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 12064
Location: Kli-flos-is-es
gdemetz wrote:
Google "scientific evidence for a global flood"!


There is none. Not even a single piece of evidence.

There are, however, thousands of cranks on the internet willing to tell you that there is.

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:41 pm 
1st Counselor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:14 am
Posts: 477
Location: Sweden
Franktalk wrote:
Your grammar has nothing to do with it. The past has had many purges over time and much of our history is lost. So to claim some pictures you took on vacation gives you a complete idea of the past just seemed funny to me. I would suggest that you embrace the idea that much of the past can not be known because much of the history is just not available to us. What has made it through has been protected by some with agendas. Just do some research into book burning and fabricated history some time. So a picture of the past is made with what is available not with what actually happened. And don't trust scholars, they come in all flavors.


I talked nothing of history. History is mostly modified revisions of events as told by the winner. Most notable is how the history of women or the favorable characteristics of the losing groups are deleted.

You attempt, but not quite genuinely, to pass off your ridicule with a summary conclusion about what history is, or isn't.

Once again, I was not talking about history. Instead I talk about doing actual, on site, down and dirty, digging and classifying of materials. The drawing of conclusions, the writing of histories, is work I leave for others to do. But I remember the utter thrill of digging and finding a tiny, seven tile, piece of a large Roman mosaic in the coast town of Side, close to modern Manavgat, Turkey.

I stood watching a small group of Egyptian workers dig out one of the hundreds of small, dog-sized, sphinxes that line the royal approach into the Ramses temples in Karnak, Egypt. I was so excited I forgot to film the event and only snapped a shot as one of the bossmen raised his stick to hit one of the workers.

None of this is history. But it is the stuff that history manages to gloss over when trying to tell a bigger, less factual, story. The photos are only reminders to give flashes of momentary joy in reflection. I am neither scholar nor expert, just a happy amateur. I am of the opinion that there is great value in experiencing things first hand.

I asked my question in regards to your travel experiences to find out if you have actually travelled to the lands of the Sinai or Israel for actual insights or whether you base your opinions from reading only. My question still stands. Answer at your leisure.

_________________
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:51 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
You are misquoting him. He perhaps said the "traditional Christ," or as I mentioned the 3 in 1 version.


From LDS Church news.

Quote:
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:49 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Yes, as I stated, "the traditional Christ." We do not believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, or the "traditional" 3 in 1 Christ of apostate Christendom.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:12 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
Yes, as I stated, "the traditional Christ." We do not believe in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, or the "traditional" 3 in 1 Christ of apostate Christendom.


So Mormon's aren't Christians. I knew it....

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:38 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Of course, we are. We believe in the REAL Christ, and not the TRADITIONAL one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:41 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
Of course, we are. We believe in the REAL Christ, and not the TRADITIONAL one.



But...but...but...So...Christians aren't Christians then...?

As Mormon's believe in a different Christ then the people we currently refer to as Christians and the people we refer to as Mormon's cannot both be classed as 'Christians'.

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:11 am 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
I would not say that. Some of them are always saying that Mormons are not Christians even though we believe in Christ, but I would not say that about them because I know that they do believe in Christ.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:13 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 12064
Location: Kli-flos-is-es
gdemetz wrote:
Of course, we are. We believe in the REAL Christ, and not the TRADITIONAL one.


You mean the apocalyptic preacher who abandoned his family on a quixotic crusade to establish himself as the Jewish messiah, even though he didn't match any of the prophesies for the Messiah, and who got himself killed in the process? That real Christ?

_________________
Parley P. Pratt wrote:
We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:
There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:52 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
"Didn't match any of the prophesies." Have you ever read the Bible?! There are hundreds of OT prophesies that He fulfilled!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:06 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
"Didn't match any of the prophesies." Have you ever read the Bible?! There are hundreds of OT prophesies that He fulfilled!


Like what?

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 am 
God
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:50 am
Posts: 4449
Location: Your mother's purse
Buffalo wrote:
There is none. Not even a single piece of evidence.


Not a single piece of evidence?
now you may argue what the cause was, but there is plenty of evidence that can reasonably support that it occurred.
Awww...just for fun, lets ruffle your feathers.

the oxygen isotope ratios of the foraminifera shells, pulled from the Gulf of Mexico, show a marked temporary decrease in the salinity of the waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It clearly shows that there was a major period of flooding.

a flood poured ten cubic miles of water a day from the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea, abruptly turning the formerly freshwater lake into a brackish inland sea.

Extensive Strata and Pancake Layering and the influence exhibited by Mt St Helen eruption.

There is a worldwide tradition among a variety of people and religions of a global flood.

current archaeological evidence supports that civilization originated in the Ararat/Babylon region

the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of feet thick, would require a catastrophic global flood.

All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.

Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.

There is no correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed paleontology 'age'

Considering how fossils are known to be created and the worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, transportation on a global scale by a global flood is the only reasonable conclusion.

Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world

Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column

Problematica

:biggrin: ....just to name a few


Buffalo wrote:
There are, however, thousands of cranks on the internet willing to tell you that there is.

and even more cranks willing to tell you that there is not.

_________________
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your liberty
I can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at them


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:28 am 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
subgenius wrote:
Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world


Hmmm...a worldwide flood covering the whole earth in a matter of 40 days...how does a mountain completely submerged in a flash flood gain a 'water level mark'?

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:38 pm 
1st Counselor
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:14 am
Posts: 477
Location: Sweden
subgenius wrote:
the oxygen isotope ratios of the foraminifera shells, pulled from the Gulf of Mexico, show a marked temporary decrease in the salinity of the waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It clearly shows that there was a major period of flooding.


Read the study carefully. Yes, the foraminifera note a decrease in salinity, about 11,600 years ago! Check it yourself. That doesn't say anything about a global flood, but it does indicate that salinity would drop from melting glaciers AT THE END OF THE LAST ICE AGE.

subgenius wrote:
a flood poured ten cubic miles of water a day from the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea, abruptly turning the formerly freshwater lake into a brackish inland sea.


About 7,000 years ago the Mediterranean Sea swelled. Seawater pushed northward, slicing through what is now Turkey.
Funneled through the narrow Bosporus, the water hit the Black Sea with 200 times the force of Niagara Falls. Each day the Black Sea rose about six inches (15 centimeters), and coastal farms were flooded. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/black ... frame.html

If you want the global flood to be responsible for the Black Seas salinity, you will need to adjust the dates.

subgenius wrote:
Extensive Strata and Pancake Layering and the influence exhibited by Mt St Helen eruption.

Huh? What does St. Helens have to do with the global flood?

subgenius wrote:
There is a worldwide tradition among a variety of people and religions of a global flood.


Yes, but that isn't science.

subgenius wrote:
current archaeological evidence supports that civilization originated in the Ararat/Babylon region.


Isn't this a typical kind of statement found on "wiki.answers.com" or "answers.yahoo.com"? Or grade 7 Socials textbooks?

subgenius wrote:
the world's folded beds of sediment have no compression fractures, indicating that they were contorted while they were still wet and soft. For this to occur on a global scale, and on sediment thousands of feet thick, would require a catastrophic global flood.


The first part of this statement is blatantly false. Check out a fairly standard text, "Sedimentary Rocks in the Field, A Colour Guide" by Dorrik A.V. Stow; pages 61-73. The picture on page 73 is especially neat. Nice colour pictures, too.

The second part of your statement is merely supposition.

subgenius wrote:
All types of rocks (eg limestone, shale, granite, etc) occur in all geologic 'ages'. This indicates a common formation on a global scale - the situation that would have been created by the mixing of sediment in a global flood.


All geologic "ages"? If there was a global flood, just which ages are you referring to? You can't have it both ways. Check out the terms for geologic ages at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_time_scale

When you get down to periods of time in geochronology, "age" means millions of years.

subgenius wrote:
Globally, there is an almost complete absence of any evidence of animal and plant root activity within the tiny layers of sediment. Slowly deposited layers should show this activity, flood deposits wouldn't.


Absence of animal and plant "activity" in sediment layers? Would you care to back this up? Do fossils in shale deposits count? Check out the "Encyclopedia of Sediments and Sedimentary Rocks" by Gerrard V. Middleton

subgenius wrote:
There is no correlation between radiometric 'ages' and assumed paleontology 'age'


You can start by reading "Cosmochemistry" By Harry Y. McSween, Gary R. Huss. (but it's a thick book, over 500 pages) Check out the section on Basic Principles of Radiometric Age Dating.

subgenius wrote:
Considering how fossils are known to be created and the worldwide distribution of most of the fossil types, transportation on a global scale by a global flood is the only reasonable conclusion.


Now you're just being ridiculous. A global flood would deposit skeletal remains willy-nilly, with absolutely no stratification differences at all. Check out the principle of superposition and how it applies to fossils.

subgenius wrote:
Mountain-high water level marks found throughout the world


You mean like a bathtub ring around all the world's mountains? I've seen the water level plateau around Salt Lake Valley. From when the Great Salt Lake was really great. But you'd be hard pressed to show any similar "high water level marks" anywhere else. Show me.

subgenius wrote:
Meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column

What does "basically absent" mean? On a scale of 1 to 10, how absent are they? Who was it who said, "absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence"?

_________________
And in the end, the love you take, is equal to the love...you make. PMcC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:07 pm 
God

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 8029
bcuzbcuz wrote:

subgenius wrote:
There is a worldwide tradition among a variety of people and religions of a global flood.


Yes, but that isn't science.



I think most of the stories are just about great floods which happen. They still happen today.

Quote:
What does "basically absent" mean? On a scale of 1 to 10, how absent are they? Who was it who said, "absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence"?


This made me laugh. Does he even know what meteorites are. I wonder if he can explain what he means by meteorites are basically absent from the geologic column?

_________________
42


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:42 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
Like what? How about these?!

"they pierced my hands and feet" Psalms 22:16

"in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink" Psalms 69:21

"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners" Isaiah 42:7

"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks" Isaiah 50:6

"He was wounded for our transgressions" Isaiah 53:5

"I will open your graves" Ezekiel 37:12

"Bethlehem...out of thee shall He come forth unto me" Micah 5:2

"thy King cometh unto thee...riding upon an ass" Zechariah 9:9

"I was prised at thirty pieces of silver" Zechariah 11:13

"Lord, whom ye seek shall suddenly come to His temple" Malachi 3:1


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:44 pm 
God

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 3:52 am
Posts: 7306
gdemetz wrote:
Like what? How about these?!

"they pierced my hands and feet" Psalms 22:16

"in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink" Psalms 69:21

"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners" Isaiah 42:7

"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks" Isaiah 50:6

"He was wounded for our transgressions" Isaiah 53:5

"I will open your graves" Ezekiel 37:12

"Bethlehem...out of thee shall He come forth unto me" Micah 5:2

"thy King cometh unto thee...riding upon an ass" Zechariah 9:9

"I was prised at thirty pieces of silver" Zechariah 11:13

"Lord, whom ye seek shall suddenly come to His temple" Malachi 3:1


When were these words written?

_________________
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Fables vs. Restored Truths
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 10:48 pm 
God

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:59 am
Posts: 1681
All were written before Christ was born.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 159 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Revival Theme By Brandon Designs By B.Design-Studio © 2007-2008 Brandon
Revival Theme Based off SubLite By Echo © 2007-2008 Echo
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group