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 Post subject: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 6:02 am 
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Children are meant to have two parents — a father and a mother, Packer said during the opening session of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ 182nd Annual General Conference. "No other pattern or process can replace this one''.(SLTrib)


But hang on...

Jesus was conceived by Mary and God (not Mary's husband).
Adam was conceived 'from the dust of the earth' (No, known parents)
Eve was conceived...well...who knows how...(No, known parents)

All of which makes Boyd's statement a little bit...well...Biblically wrong.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 7:14 am 
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Not to mention that he invalidates decades of church-sanctioned polygamy, where children had a daddy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy and a mommy....

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:13 am 
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That is not correct. According to what the prophets have taught, Adam as well as Eve were sired naturally by Heavenly Father as was Jesus Christ (See "Mormon Doctrine," "Son of God."). In the case of Jesus Christ, instead of one of Heavenly Father's wives, the mother was a mortal woman, hence the term, "Only Begotten in the flesh." Also, the Apostle James Talmadge writes in, "Jesus The Christ," that PERHAPS Mary the mother of Jesus was sealed to Heavenly Father. Incidentally, the Bible as well as the Book of Moses state that Adam was the son of God (See Luke 3:38 and Moses 6:22.).


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:54 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
That is not correct. According to what the prophets have taught, Adam as well as Eve were sired naturally by Heavenly Father

Define what you mean by 'Naturally' and please quote where the prophets have taught that.

Quote:
In the case of Jesus Christ, instead of one of Heavenly Father's wives, the mother was a mortal woman, hence the term, "Only Begotten in the flesh."

Please quote where it is official doctrine that Heavenly Father has 'wives'.
Please explain what you believe Heavenly Father did to impregnate Mary - and then support that with official doctrinal source material.

Quote:
Also, the Apostle James Talmadge writes in, "Jesus The Christ," that PERHAPS Mary the mother of Jesus was sealed to Heavenly Father. Incidentally, the Bible as well as the Book of Moses state that Adam was the son of God (See Luke 3:38 and Moses 6:22.).


So Talmadge, whilst writing as a man, speculated a personal opinion that Mary, like a number of Joseph Smith's wives, was polyandrous. Please support that opinion with something the Church has officially put out.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:03 am 
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I did quote the source for all of those (See "Mormon Doctrine." "Son of God") except for the "wives," and you may find that in Brigham Young's discourse which I referred to in my "Adam-God Theory" original post here. Talmadge just stated that as a possibility, and as far as I know, there is no official church doctrine concerning that possibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:46 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I did quote the source for all of those (See "Mormon Doctrine." "Son of God") except for the "wives," and you may find that in Brigham Young's discourse which I referred to in my "Adam-God Theory" original post here. Talmadge just stated that as a possibility, and as far as I know, there is no official church doctrine concerning that possibility.


Sorry, 'Mormon Doctrine' has been renounced as not Mormon doctrine.
Try again with something the Church officially recognises.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:18 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
According to what the prophets have taught, Adam as well as Eve were sired naturally by Heavenly Father

The English word is "inbred" , if I don't err...
Or "incest" if You like it.


Somewhere I did reflect this:
Image[/quote]


BTW The children of first-cousin marriages have an increased risk of genetic disorders.
The whole humanity is victim of the incestuous Adam-Eve liaison. It is doubtless.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:33 pm 
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Adam's sons also married his daughters. "Incest" was not a forbidden thing, as far as I know, until the time of Moses. It was obviously a necessary thing in the early days of mankind. Also, I have seen no evidence of where these teachings I stated have been renounced by the church. These teachings are not only scriptural, but they have been taught by a number of prophets and apostles. For example, how could the church renounce that Adam is the son of God when the prophets have taught it and the Book of Moses states that Adam is the son of God?


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:55 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
Adam's sons also married his daughters. "Incest" was not a forbidden thing, as far as I know, until the time of Moses. It was obviously a necessary thing in the early days of mankind. Also, I have seen no evidence of where these teachings I stated have been renounced by the church. These teachings are not only scriptural, but they have been taught by a number of prophets and apostles. For example, how could the church renounce that Adam is the son of God when the prophets have taught it and the Book of Moses states that Adam is the son of God?


I refer you to Packers statement.

Also, if Adams children literally married each other then who conducted the ceremony? Did they have confetti? We're the initial wives bridesmaids for the newest one to the hareem?
Why weren't genetic problems incurred by this incestuous pattern of family development?

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Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:31 pm 
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I would imagine that Adam presided over those unions. Perhaps, they used leaves for confetti. No, they would not have been cursed since, as far as I know, the first prohibition to incest was from the laws given to Moses. This, of course, was also done out of necessity to "multiply and replenish the earth."


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:38 pm 
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gdemetz wrote:
I would imagine that Adam presided over those unions. Perhaps, they used leaves for confetti. No, they would not have been cursed since, as far as I know, the first prohibition to incest was from the laws given to Moses. This, of course, was also done out of necessity to "multiply and replenish the earth."


Eve, as with Adam, was created as a mature adult.
Now whilst she herself didn't know the implication of her nakedness, God and Jesus certainly did.
So when they visited the Garden of Eden and looked upon her naked body, were they technically the very first viewers of porn?

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:13 am 
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I don't believe that. If Adam was a son of God as the prophets and scriptures affirm, would he be born as an adult? No, neither would Eve.


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:39 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I don't believe that. If Adam was a son of God as the prophets and scriptures affirm, would he be born as an adult? No, neither would Eve.


In the temple film they are depicted as both adult and naked when placed in the Garden of Eden.
Are you saying that we shouldn't take the film literally?

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:14 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
I don't believe that. If Adam was a son of God as the prophets and scriptures affirm, would he be born as an adult? No, neither would Eve.

? Image ?

? Image ?


Who did change the diaper? Who did give a suck?

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:55 pm 
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That temple depiction is accurate. They were placed in the garden after they were older. Also, mothers know how to take care of their young, especially Heavenly Mothers.


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:04 am 
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gdemetz wrote:
That temple depiction is accurate. They were placed in the garden after they were older. Also, mothers know how to take care of their young, especially Heavenly Mothers.


Thanks for confirming that when God and Jesus looked upon Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden they were looking at naked adults. :rolleyes:

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:47 pm 
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Drifting wrote:
Quote:
Children are meant to have two parents — a father and a mother, Packer said during the opening session of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ 182nd Annual General Conference. "No other pattern or process can replace this one''.(SLTrib)


But hang on...

Jesus was conceived by Mary and God (not Mary's husband).


That's still a Father and a Mother, AND he was raised by a Father and a Mother, thus you are wrong as usual.

Quote:
Adam was conceived 'from the dust of the earth' (No, known parents)


Actually, his BODY was made from the Dust. His spirit was made by heavenly parents.

Quote:
Eve was conceived...well...who knows how...(No, known parents)


Again matter, but through the rib, again still with Heavenly Parents.

Quote:
All of which makes Boyd's statement a little bit...well...Biblically wrong.


Nope.... All it makes is you bearing false witness again.


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:56 pm 
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Remember, when the prophet has spoken, the debate is over. Heed the words of the prophet.

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Journal of Discourses, Vol.2, p.6, Brigham Young, October 23, 1853 Look for instance at Adam. Listen, ye Latter-day Saints! Supposing that Adam was formed actually out of clay, out of the same kind of material from which bricks are formed; that with this matter God made the pattern of a man, and breathed into it the breath of life, and left it there, in that state of supposed perfection, he would have been an adobie to this day. He would not have known anything. Some of you may doubt the truth of what I now say, and argue that the Lord could teach him. This is a mistake. The Lord could not have taught him in any other way than in the way in which He did teach him. You believe Adam was made of the dust of this earth. This I do not believe, though it is supposed that it is so written in the Bible; but it is not, to my understanding. You can write that information to the States, if you please--that I have publicly declared that I do not believe that portion of the Bible as the Christian world do. I never did, and I never want to. What is the reason I do not? Because I have come to understanding, and banished from my mind all the baby stories my mother taught me when I was a child.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.3, p.319, Brigham Young, April 20, 1856 Though we have it in history that our father Adam was made of the dust of this earth, and that he knew nothing about his God previous to being made here, yet it is not so; and when we learn the truth we shall see and understand that he helped to make this world, and was the chief manager in that operation. He was the person who brought the animals and the seeds from other planets to this world, and brought a wife with him and stayed here. You may read and believe what you please as to what is found written in the Bible. Adam was made from the dust of an earth, but not from the dust of this earth. He was made as you and I are made, and no person was ever made upon any other principle.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:04 pm 
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Quote:
Journal of Discourses, Vol.7, p.285 - p.286, Brigham Young, October 9, 1859 Here let me state to all philosophers of every class upon the earth, When you tell me that father Adam was made as we make adobies from the earth, you tell me what I deem an idle tale. When you tell me that the beasts of the field were produced in that manner, you are speaking idle worlds devoid of meaning. There is no such thing in all the eternities where the Gods dwell. Mankind are here because they are the offspring of parents who were first brought here from another planet, and power was given them to propagate their species, and they were commanded to multiply and replenish the earth.

Journal of Discourses, Vol.17, p.144, Brigham Young, July 19, 1874 This earth is our home, it was framed expressly for the habitation of those who are faithful to God, and who prove themselves worthy to inherit the earth when the Lord shall have sanctified, purified and glorified it and brought it back into his presence, from which it fell far into space. Ask the astronomer how far we are from the nearest of those heavenly bodies that are called the fixed stars. Can he count the miles? It would be a task for him to tell us the distance. When the earth was framed and brought into existence and man was placed upon it, it was near the throne of our Father in heaven. And when man fell--though that was designed in the economy, there was nothing about it mysterious or unknown to the Gods, they understood it all, it was all planned--but when man fell, the earth fell into space, and took up its abode in this planetary system, and the sun became our light. When the Lord said--"Let there be light," there was light, for the earth was brought near the sun that it might reflect upon it so as to give us light by day, and the moon to give us light by night. This is the glory the earth came from, and when it is glorified it will return again unto the presence of the Father, and it will dwell there, and these intelligent beings that I am looking at, if they live worthy of it, will dwell upon this earth.

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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:40 pm 
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There has never been anyone who has ever lives since the first God who did not have a mother and a father, and this includes Adam, Eve, and Christ. Furthermore there was never was anyone born since the first God who wasn't conceived by sex (see my quotes from Brigham Young on "The Adam-God Theory" on this site, "Mormon Doctrine" under "Son of God," Luke 3:38, and Moses 6:22).


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 Post subject: Re: Packer renounces Jesus' parenthood...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Where did first god come from?

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